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| Top-Rated Players of the Bundesliga (1963-2010); as determined by 'Kicker' magazine | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 13 2010, 08:10 AM (1,728 Views) | |
| Gregoriak | Aug 13 2010, 08:10 AM Post #1 |
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Since the start of the Bundesliga in 1963, "kicker" magazine has chronicled the events faithfully in a multitude of ways. One of their most prominent features is the weekly rating of individual players' performances after each matchday. What they use to evaluate is the German schoolsystem grade rating, where the best performance equals "1" and the worst equals "5. On their website, Kicker recently published the average grades per season of all players since 1963. The following is a short overview of the results in four parts: Forwards, midfielders, defenders, goalies. PART ONE Top-Rated Forwards season - avg. grade - best player 1963-64 1.67 Uwe Seeler 1964-65 1.79 Uwe Seeler 1965-66 1.94 Bernd Rupp 1966-67 2.00 Bernd Rupp, Jupp Heynckes 1967-68 2.03 Heinz Strehl 1968-69 2.12 Siegfried Held 1969-70 2.09 Jürgen Grabowski 1970-71 2.03 Siegfried Held 1971-72 2.27 Gerd Müller, Erwin Kremers 1972-73 2.33 Jürgen Grabowski 1973-74 2.36 Klaus Fischer 1974-75 2.38 Allan Simonsen 1975-76 2.47 Allan Simonsen 1976-77 2.12 Allan Simonsen 1977-78 2.24 Kevin Keegan 1978-79 1.94 Kevin Keegan 1979-80 2.32 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 1980-81 2.24 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 1981-82 2.34 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 1982-83 2.32 Rudi Völler 1983-84 2.31 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 1984-85 2.71 Pierre Littbarski 1985-86 2.85 Manfred Burgsmüller 1986-87 2.50 Uwe Rahn 1987-88 2.74 Jürgen Klinsmann 1988-89 3.11 Bum Kun Cha 1989-90 2.93 Ludwig Kögl 1990-91 2.89 Stefan Kuntz 1991-92 2.73 Sergio Zarate 1992-93 2.88 Anthony Yeboah 1993-94 2.71 Anthony Yeboah 1994-95 2.87 Stéphane Chapuisat 1995-96 3.00 Fredi Bobic 1996-97 3.03 Paulo Sergio 1997-98 2.60 Olaf Marschall 1998-99 2.89 Carsten Jancker 1999-00 3.06 Giovane Elber 2000-01 3.12 Emile Mpenza 2001-02 3.25 Ewerthon 2002-03 3.36 Kevin Kuranyi 2003-04 3.06 Lukas Podolski 2004-05 3.11 Miroslav Klose 2005-06 2.38 Miroslav Klose 2006-07 2.94 Mohamed Zidan 2007-08 3.13 Luca Toni 2008-09 2.53 Vehad Ibisevic 2009-10 2.80 Stefan Kessling TOP FIVE 1963-64 1.67 Uwe Seeler 2.04 Helmut Faeder 2.16 Friedhelm Konietzka 2.17 Heinz Hornig 2.19 Gert Dörfel 1964-65 1.79 Uwe Seeler 1.84 Wilhelm Wrenger 2.03 Udo Nix 2.10 Heinz Strehl 2.10 Lothar Ulsass 1965-66 1.94 Bernd Rupp 2.13 Siegfried Held 2.13 Reinhard Libuda 2.19 Heinz Hornig 2.26 Dieter Brenninger 1966-67 2.00 Jupp Heynckes 2.00 Bernd Rupp 2.03 Klaus Zaczyk 2.03 Lothar Ulsass 2.06 Erich Maass 1967-68 2.03 Heinz Strehl 2.06 Peter Meyer 2.15 Zvezdan Cebinac 2.15 Siegfried Held 2.21 Franz Brungs 1968-69 2.12 Siegfried Held 2.27 Josip Skoblar 2.33 Gerd Müller 2.33 Hans Siemensmeyer 2.35 Werner Görts 1969-70 2.09 Jürgen Grabowski 2.33 Gerd Müller 2.33 Uwe Seeler 2.39 Franz Krauthausen 2.39 Erich Maas 1970-71 2.03 Siegfried Held 2.16 Lothar Ulsass 2.26 Jürgen Grabowski 2.41 Willi Lippens 2.47 Dietmar Erler 2.47 Ferdinand Keller 1971-72 2.27 Erwin Kremers 2.27 Gerd Müller 2.38 Bernd Hölzenbein 2.39 Jupp Heynckes 2.42 Jürgen Grabowski 1972-73 2.33 Jürgen Grabowski 2.41 Reiner Geye 2.41 Klaus Wunder 2.47 Erwin Kremers 2.47 Gerd Müller 1973-74 2.36 Klaus Fischer 2.45 Klaus Wunder 2.50 Willi Lippens 2.50 Wolfgang Seel 2.52 Bernd Hölzenbein 1974-75 2.38 Allan Simonsen 2.40 Josef Pirrung 2.41 Willi Lippens 2.42 Siegfried Held 2.44 Wolfgang Seel 1975-76 2.47 Allan Simonsen 2.48 Henning Jensen 2.50 Werner Görts 2.59 Klaus Fischer 2.59 Bernd Hölzenbein 2.59 Reiner Geye 1976-77 2.12 Allan Simonsen 2.17 Bernd Hölzenbein 2.23 Danilo Popivoda 2.52 Lorenz Horr 2.52 Gerd Müller 1977-78 2.24 Kevin Keegan 2.42 Hans-Joachim Abel 2.43 Allan Simonsen 2.62 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 2.64 Georg Volkert 1978-79 1.94 Kevin Keegan 2.61 Klaus Allofs 2.61 Georg Volkert 2.62 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 2.68 Klaus Fischer 1979-80 2.32 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 2.42 Kevin Keegan 2.45 Bum Kun Cha 2.67 Reiner Geye 2.74 Hans-Joachim Abel 1980-81 2.24 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 2.79 Manfred Burgsmüller 2.81 Bernd Hölzenbein 2.83 Georg Volkert 2.85 Bum Kun Cha 1981-82 2.34 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 2.39 Pierre Littbarski 2.53 Rüdiger Wenzel 2.59 Lars Bastrup 2.64 Ronald Borchers 1982-83 2.32 Rudi Völler 2.32 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 2.52 Bum Kun Cha 2.63 Jürgen Milewski 2.88 Karl Allgöwer 1983-84 2.31 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 2.55 Rudi Völler 2.58 Klaus Allofs 2.79 Christian Schreier 2.84 Frank Mill 1984-85 2.71 Pierre Littbarski 2.81 Klaus Allofs 2.82 Klaus Fischer 2.96 Ludwig Kögl 2.97 Karl Allgöwer 1985-86 2.85 Manfred Burgsmüller 2.85 Herbert Waas 3.00 Christian Schreier 3.13 Thomas Allofs 3.15 Jürgen Wegmann 1986-87 2.50 Uwe Rahn 2.72 Miroslav Okonski 2.74 Frank Mill 2.88 Klaus Allofs 3.03 Wlodzimierz Smolarek 1987-88 2.74 Jürgen Klinsmann 2.90 Frank Mill 3.18 Mark Hughes 3.21 Bum Kun Cha 3.24 Siegfried Reich 1988-89 3.11 Bum Kun Cha 3.13 Jürgen Klinsmann 3.19 Frank Mill 3.24 Jan Furtok 3.36 Thomas Allofs 1989-90 2.93 Ludwig Kögl 3.15 Josef Nehl 3.32 Brian Laudrup 3.39 Ralf Sturm 3.41 Jörn Ande 1990-91 2.89 Stefan Kuntz 2.90 Bruno Labbadia 3.06 Thomas Allofs 3.17 Klaus Allofs 3.17 Jan Furtok 1991-92 2.73 Sergio Zarate 2.81 Stéphane Chapuisat 2.91 Anthony Yeboah 3.00 Andreas Thom 3.09 Ulf Kirsten 1992-93 2.88 Anthony Yeboah 3.07 Sergey Kiriakov 3.09 Axel Kruse 3.12 Martin Dahlin 3.16 Ulf Kirsten 1993-94 2.71 Anthony Yeboah 3.07 Anton Polster 3.13 Stéphane Chapuisat 3.18 Stefan Kuntz 3.20 Martin Dahlin 1994-95 2.87 Stéphane Chapuisat 3.05 Rudi Völler 3.12 Uwe Spies 3.13 Olaf Marschall 3.24 Peter Peschel 1995-96 3.00 Fredi Bobic 3.05 Rudi Völler 3.07 Harry Decheiver 3.13 Martin Dahlin 3.23 Giovane Elber 1996-97 3.03 Paulo Sergio 3.06 Fredi Bobic 3.07 Ulf Kirsten 3.17 Giuseppe Reina 31.8 Ruggiero Rizzitelli 1997-98 2.60 Olaf Marschall 2.92 Ulf Kirsten 3.16 Bachirou Salou 3.26 Carsten Jancker 3.31 Stefan Kuntz 1998-99 2.89 Carsten Jancker 2.90 Giovane Elber 3.23 Olaf Marschall 3.31 Eyjolfur Sverisson 3.32 Ulf Kirsten 1999-2000 3.06 Giovane Elber 3.25 Paulo Sergio 3.28 Ulf Kirsten 3.31 Giuseppe Reina 3.33 Anthony Yeboah 2000-01 3.12 Emile Mpenza 3.14 Ebbe Sand 3.32 Claudio Pizarro 3.36 Alexander Iashvili 3.40 Markus Kurth 2001-02 3.25 Ewerthon 3.26 Miroslav Klose 3.30 Giovane Elber 3.38 Vratislav Lokvenc 3.43 Ebbe Sand 2002-03 3.36 Kevin Kuranyi 3.38 Victor Agali 3.39 Claudio Pizarro 3.41 Fredi Bobic 3.44 Giovane Elber 2003-04 3.06 Lukas Podolski 3.11 Dimitar Berbatov 3.18 Claudio Pizarro 3.19 Ailton 3.21 Ivan Klasnic 2004-05 3.11 Miroslav Klose 3.16 Gerald Asamoah 3.29 Claudio Pizarro 3.29 Dimitar Berbatov 3.31 Ebbe Sand 2005-06 2.38 Miroslav Klose 3.25 Ivan Klasnic 3.25 Ivan Saenko 3.29 Nelson Valdez 3.29 Dimitar Berbatov 2006-07 2.94 Mohamed Zidan 2.98 Mario Gomez 3.06 Theofanis Gekas 3.31 Kevin Kuranyi 3.34 Cacau 2007-08 3.13 Luca Toni 3.24 Marko Pantelic 3.24 Stefan Kiessling 3.28 Mario Gomez 3.36 Cacau 2008-09 2.53 Vedad Ibisevic 2.76 Grafite 2.88 Edin Dzeko 3.11 Mario Gomez 3.12 Claudio Pizarro 2009-10 2.80 Stefan Kiessling 3.03 Edin Dzeko 3.06 Jefferson Farfan 3.16 Kevin Kuranyi 3.17 Claudio Pizarro |
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| Manzanares | Aug 14 2010, 02:16 PM Post #2 |
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Interesting to see those that did the Kicker ratings never really rated Gerd Mueller that highly. Only once, in the 1971-2 season, did Der Bomber finish as the highest rated forward in the league, and even that season he shared the highest rating with Erwin Kremers. I guess the raters did not find uch satisfaction in Mueller's multiple goals! |
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| Dr. Z | Aug 17 2010, 10:23 PM Post #3 |
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That is intriguing about Gerd Mueller, a player considered by many as one of the best pure finishers ever. But I guess because he did not create many shots on his own, just finished off moves or was opportunistic in front of goal, he did not overawe those who did the Kicker ratings. Yet who won league titles and numerous league top scoring crowns? Gerd Mueller! |
| Poniendo el pecho a las balas! | |
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| ursus arctos | Aug 18 2010, 02:44 AM Post #4 |
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Gregoriak's posts are always fascinating to me, and this one is no exception. Mueller's relative low profile, is, to me, a natural outcome of this kind of rating process, which is simply a mathematical average of numerical ratings given in 40 or so matches over the course of a season, rather than a more subjective rating of a player's contribution (kicker also do the latter, in their "Ranglisten der Deutschen Fussball" which rate German players as world class, international class, etc.). Weekly ratings are very common in Europe and the likes of L'Equipe, France Football and La Gazzetta will publish cumulative tables of the "leaders". In reviewing those tables over the last few decades, I have observed that the most-highly rated players are often not those with the highest profile, but rather those that are efficiently consistent. A poacher like Mueller will rate highly in games in which he scores, but will often be perceived to have "not done anything" in games in which he doesn't. So, if he has a pair of matches in which he has a hat trick in one and gets shut out in another, he is likely to have scores of something like 1 and 4, which means that he would be behind a less flashy player who averages 2s. Another factor is that strikers, defenders, and goalkeepers often make more obvious mistakes (bad misses, giveaways, etc) than midfielders, which tend to depress their ratings. |
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| Johnbuildr | Aug 18 2010, 09:55 AM Post #5 |
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What struck me in the long listing of ratings was how in the recent two decades the overall ratings are almost universally much lower. In the 60's to late 80's most all top 5 player scores were 2.something. But look at the 90"s and last ten years; all 3's. So, comparisons between players from the same era are feasible, but not so much from decade to decade. |
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Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum | |
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| ursus arctos | Aug 18 2010, 10:26 AM Post #6 |
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kicker are notoriously "hard graders" and I think that they may have become more so over the course of time. There have been entire years, for instance, when their "Ranglisten" rankings conclude that no Bundesliga player (or German playing abroad) is "world class" and that only a handful are "international class". This is in German, but I think that everyone will be able to understand the table, which indicates the number of "World Class" (Weltklasse), "International Class" (Intern. Klasse), Honorable Mention (im Weiteren Kreis), and "on the radar screen" (Blickfeld) players for each of kicker's semi-annual Ranglisten over the last five years. The four "Weltklasse" players (Robben, Schweinsteiger, Mueller and Dzeko) in the most recent list are the highest number over the entire period. |
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| Gregoriak | Aug 19 2010, 12:13 AM Post #7 |
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Thanks for the debate this overview sparked! All very interesting to me. Regarding the lower average grades that Kicker gave over the decades, one thing they did change in their grade system - which came about some time in the 1980s - was that they introduced intervalls going 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0 and so on instead of the older system which was 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and so on. Thus a player that may got a 2.0 in the old ratings, now got a 2.5 in the newer version. Overall this certainly contributed to the lower average grades over the years. |
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| Gregoriak | Aug 19 2010, 12:14 AM Post #8 |
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PART TWO Top-Rated Midfielders season - avg. grade - best player 1963-64 1.50 Werner Krämer 1964-65 1.78 Werner Krämer 1965-66 1.76 Zeljko Perusic 1966-67 1.97 Wolfgang Overath 1967-68 1.74 Günter Netzer 1968-69 1.74 Günter Netzer 1969-70 1.90 Günter Netzer 1970-71 1.94 Günter Netzer 1971-72 1.93 Günter Netzer 1972-73 2.29 Herbert Wimmer 1973-74 2.06 Jürgen Grabowski 1974-75 1.97 Jürgen Grabowski 1975-76 2.32 Jürgen Grabowski 1976-77 2.12 Rainer Bonhof 1977-78 2.23 Paul Breitner 1978-79 2.36 Paul Breitner, Branko Oblak, Jürgen Groh 1979-80 1.87 Paul Breitner 1980-81 2.27 Paul Breitner 1981-82 2.25 Felix Magath 1982-83 2.18 Lothar Matthäus 1983-84 2.48 Asgeir Sigurvinsson 1984-85 2.46 Sören Lerby 1985-86 2.27 Norbert Meier 1986-87 2.56 Wolfram Wuttke 1987-88 2.58 Thomas Hässler 1988-89 2.59 Thomas von Heesen 1989-90 2.62 Pierre Littbarski 1990-91 2.48 Ralf Falkenmayer 1991-92 2.48 Uwe Bein 1992-93 2.56 Uwe Bein 1993-94 2.78 Rodolfo Cardoso 1994-95 2.54 Pjotr Nowak 1995-96 2.67 Andreas Möller 1996-97 2.52 Dariusz Wosz 1997-98 2.79 Andreas Buck 1998-99 2.83 Jens Jeremies 1999-00 2.64 Emerson 2000-01 2.95 Sergej Barbarez 2001-02 2.68 Torsten Frings 2002-03 2.96 Michael Ballack 2003-04 2.76 Fabian Ernst 2004-05 2.79 Fabian Ernst 2005-06 2.91 Torsten Frings 2006-07 2.74 Torsten Frings 2007-08 2.54 Franck Ribéry 2008-09 2.74 Franck Ribéry 2009-10 2.48 Arjen Robben 1963-64 1.50 Werner Krämer 1.79 Gustav Witlatschil 1.80 Klaus Gerwien 1.90 Hans-Jürgen Neumann 1.93 Hans Sturm 1964-65 1.78 Werner Krämer 1.84 Hans-Jürgen Neumann 2.08 Gustav Witlatschil 2.10 Uwe Klimaschewski 2.11 Achim Melcher 2.11 Ludwig Nolden 1965-66 1.76 Zeljko Perusic 1.81 Günter Netzer 1.86 Werner Krämer 2.00 Hans Sturm 2.06 Dieter Kurrat 1966-67 1.97 Wolfgang Overath 2.00 Günter Netzer 2.00 Hans Küppers 2.00 Gerhard Neuser 2.03 Zeljko Perusic 1967-68 1.74 Günter Netzer 2.07 Wolfgang Overath 2.10 Dieter Kurrat 2.12 Zeljko Perusic 2.12 Bo Larsson 1968-69 1.74 Günter Netzer 1.90 Zeljko Perusic 2.12 Klaus Zaczyk 2.15 Jürgen Friedrich 2.21 Herbert Wimmer 1969-70 1.90 Günter Netzer 2.03 Wolfgang Overath 2.23 Klaus Zaczyk 2.26 Wolfgang Gayer 2.27 Franz Roth 1970-71 1.94 Günter Netzer 2.00 Jürgen Friedrich 2.32 Arnold Schütz 2.35 Gilbert Gress 2.38 Wolfgang Gayer 1971-72 1.93 Günter Netzer 2.23 Herbert Lütkebohmert 2.24 Uli Hoeness 2.31 Heinz Flohe 2.33 Jürgen Friedrich 1972-73 2.29 Herbert Wimmer 2.40 Heinz Flohe 2.47 Jürgen Friedrich 2.47 Uli Hoeness 2.47 Bernd Gersdorff 2.47 Gerd Zewe 1973-74 2.06 Jürgen Grabowski 2.22 Rainer Bonhof 2.42 Wolfgang Overath 2.42 Herbert Wimmer 2.44 Uli Hoeness 1974-75 1.97 Jürgen Grabowski 2.14 Herbert Wimmer 2.31 Erich Beer 2.32 Rainer Bonhof 2.42 Karl-Heinz Kamp 1975-76 2.32 Jürgen Grabowski 2.35 Karlheinz Handschuh 2.35 Johannes Riedl 2.38 Herbert Wimmer 2.40 Rainer Bonhof 1976-77 2.12 Rainer Bonhof 2.26 Franz-Josef Tenhagen 2.32 Jürgen Grabowski 2.34 Heinz Flohe 2.41 Josef Hickersberger 1977-78 2.23 Paul Breitner 2.27 Hans Müller 2.29 Jürgen Grabowski 2.30 Rainer Bonhof 2.43 Alfred Kohlhäufl 1978-79 2.36 Jürgen Groh 2.36 Branko Oblak 2.36 Paul Breitner 2.38 Wolfgang Pohl 2.42 Hans Müller 1979-80 1.87 Paul Breitner 2.35 Anthony Woodcock 2.42 Jürgen Groh 2.48 Jürgen Grabowski 2.59 Hans Müller 1980-81 2.27 Paul Breitner 2.48 Felix Magath 2.52 Norbert Eilenfeldt 2.56 Hans Müller 2.57 Bernd Nickel 1981-82 2.25 Felix Magath 2.50 Paul Breitner 2.53 Uwe Bracht 2.55 Ralf Falkenmayer 2.55 Stephan Engels 1982-83 2.18 Lothar Matthäus 2.19 Paul Breitner 2.47 Benno Möhlmann 2.48 Bernd Nickel 2.53 Norbert Meier 1983-84 2.48 Asgeir Sigurvinsson 2.56 Lothar Matthäus 2.58 Norbert Meier 2.65 Rudi Bommer 2.67 Peter Lux 1984-85 2.46 Sören Lerby 2.58 Lothar Matthäus 2.74 Gerhard Bold 2.85 Olaf Thon 2.86 Ralf Falkenmayer 1985-86 2.27 Norbert Meier 2.65 Sören Lerby 2.72 Asgeir Sigurvinsson 2.73 Karl Allgöwer 2.88 Thomas Zechel 1986-87 2.56 Wolfram Wuttke 2.70 Olaf Thon 2.70 Thomas von Heesen 2.71 Lothar Matthäus 2.73 Norbert Nachtweih 1987-88 2.58 Thomas Hässler 2.59 Olaf Thon 2.66 Günter Hermann 2.69 Miroslav Votava 2.73 Norbert Meier 1988-89 2.59 Thomas von Heesen 2.72 Andreas Möller 2.73 Thomas Hässler 2.75 Uwe Bein 2.76 Hans Dorfner 2.76 Peter Knäbel 1989-90 2.62 Pierre Littbarski 2.68 Heinz Gründel 2.70 Ralf Falkenmayer 2.71 Thomas Hässler 2.85 Uwe Bein 1990-91 2.48 Ralf Falkenmayer 2.73 Thomas Doll 2.77 Matthias Sammer 2.88 Bjarne Goldbaek 2.97 Stefan Effenberg 1991-92 2.48 Uwe Bein 2.63 Ralf Falkenmayer 2.78 Andreas Möller 2.78 Michael Rummenigge 2.82 Matthias Sammer 1992-93 2.56 Uwe Bein 2.76 Karlheinz Pflipsen 2.76 Ralf Weber 2.84 Gerhard Poschner 2.75 Andreas Thom 1993-94 2.78 Rodolfo Cardoso 2.81 Karlheinz Pflipsen 2.83 Christian Hochstätter 2.90 Jiri Nemec 3.00 Martin Wagner 1994-95 2.54 Pjotr Nowak 2.72 Dieter Eilts 2.73 Thomas Hässler 2.78 Andreas Herzog 2.85 Bernd Schuster 1995-96 2.67 Andreas Möller 2.74 Thomas Hässler 2.78 Jens Jeremies 2.80 Dieter Eilts 2.89 Stefan Effenberg 1996-97 2.52 Dariusz Wosz 2.60 Krassimir Balakov 2.64 Horst Heldt 2.89 Thomas Stickroth 3.00 Thomas Hässler 3.00 Andreas Möller 1997-98 2.79 Andreas Buck 2.84 Mehmet Scholl 2.85 Christian Hochstätter 2.89 Jens Jeremies 2.91 Carsten Ramelow 1998-99 2.83 Jens Jeremies 2.94 Carsten Ramelow 2.98 Stefan Beinlich 3.02 Dieter Eilts 3.05 Stefan Effenberg 1999-2000 2.64 Emerson 2.80 Michael Ballack 2.85 Stefan Effenberg 2.87 Jens Jeremies 2.91 Niko Kovac 2000-01 2.95 Sergej Barbarez 3.00 Miroslav Stevic 3.02 Sebastian Kehl 3.08 Mehmet Scholl 3.08 Jiri Nemec 2001-02 2.68 Torsten Frings 2.88 Michael Ballack 3.10 Ze Roberto 3.13 Tomas Rosicky 3.21 Krisztian Lisztes 2002-03 2.96 Michael Ballack 3.16 Fabian Ernst 3.16 Zvonimir Soldo 3.23 Tomas Rosicky 3.25 Jens Jeremies 2003-04 2.76 Fabian Ernst 2.92 Zvonimir Soldo 3.02 Frank Baumann 3.17 Johan Micoud 3.21 Aliaksandr Hleb 2004-05 2.79 Fabian Ernst 2.98 Michael Ballack 3.05 Lincoln 3.05 Zvonimir Soldo 3.14 Marcelinho 2005-06 2.91 Torsten Frings 3.08 Johan Micoud 3.11 Tim Borowski 3.18 Jermaine Jones 3.19 Michael Ballack 2006-07 2.74 Torsten Frings 2.79 Diego 2.97 Pavel Pardo 2.98 Bernd Schneider 3.07 Hawhar Mnari 2007-08 2.54 Franck Ribery 2.91 Ze Roberto 2.93 Simon Rolfes 3.00 David Jarolim 3.02 Mark van Bommel 2008-09 2.74 Franck Ribery 2.98 Mesut Özil 3.02 Carlos Eduardo 3.03 Jermaine Jones 3.05 Renato Augusto 2009-10 2.48 Arjen Robben 2.78 Toni Kroos 2.95 Marko Marin 3.00 Sven Bender 3.00 Torsten Frings |
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| Manzanares | Aug 19 2010, 05:37 AM Post #9 |
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All very interesting but is it possible that a player who previously received a 3 could now, with the interval ratings, receive a 2.5? Thus that could have the opposite effect from what you wrote, lowering over the course of a season, a players rating. Note too how many consecutive years first Gunter Netzer and later Paul Breitner won the prize as the league's top rated midfielder. |
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| ursus arctos | Aug 19 2010, 06:25 AM Post #10 |
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I think you have to interpret the change in system in the context of the "hard graders" point I made above. It is rare for kicker to give a player a "1" (there are never more than a couple each week, and sometimes none at all) and it is therefore more likely that they would "round up" than "round down". It's nice to see Piotr Nowak's name on the list from his time at 1860; he was always a class player. |
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| Sammy Maudlin | Aug 19 2010, 10:48 PM Post #11 |
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I enjoy reading some names I have not seen or thought about in years. I also find it interesting Wolfgang Overath, with one top rating and two times the 2nd highest rated midfield was not more often on the list of the league's top rated midfielders. Maybe because his Cologne team were never the power that Netzer's Monchengladbach or Breitner's Bayern Munich were? Good poimt about Nowak, I always liked watching him play. |
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| Manzanares | Aug 22 2010, 04:05 PM Post #12 |
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ursus point about "harder grading" is demonstrated in the average ratings for the seasons, you can see the players in the 60s and even 70s received lower marks (higher ratings) than they did late ron, particularly in the last decade. Also note in general midfielders received higher ratings as a whole than forwards did. I am curious to see how defenders and goalies will compare, as I assume those will be Gregoriak's next contributions here. I know Bernd Schuster did not play long in Germany but I was sort of expecting him to be on the list of the highest rated midfielders in the early 80s. |
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| Gregoriak | Aug 24 2010, 03:43 AM Post #13 |
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PART THREE Top-Rated Defenders season - avg. grade - best player 1963-64 1.70 Walter Schmidt 1964-65 1.70 Klaus-Dieter Sieloff 1965-66 1.40 Josef Marx 1966-67 1.67 Franz Beckenbauer 1967-68 1.52 Joachim Bäse 1968-69 1.58 Franz Beckenbauer 1969-70 1.50 Franz Beckenbauer 1970-71 1.76 Franz Beckenbauer 1971-72 1.91 Franz Beckenbauer 1972-73 1.82 Berti Vogts 1973-74 1.79 Franz Beckenbauer 1974-75 1.79 Berti Vogts 1975-76 1.79 Berti Vogts 1976-77 1.96 Berti Vogts 1977-78 2.03 Bernard Dietz 1978-79 2.15 Dieter Bast 1979-80 2.00 Hans-Peter Briegel 1980-81 2.16 Bruno Pezzey 1981-82 2.18 Rolf Rüssmann 1982-83 2.09 Dieter Bast 1983-84 2.07 Matthias Herget 1984-85 2.48 Matthias Herget 1985-86 2.32 Thomas Hörster 1986-87 2.56 Ditmar Jakobs 1987-88 2.33 Jürgen Kohler 1988-89 2.50 Rune Bratseth 1989-90 2.54 Guido Buchwald 1990-91 2.57 Guido Buchwald 1991-92 2.53 Manfred Binz 1992-93 2.83 Rune Bratseth 1993-94 2.42 Lothar Matthäus 1994-95 2.17 Matthias Sammer 1995-96 2.67 Dietmar Beiersdorfer 1996-97 2.62 Christian Wörns 1997-98 2.81 Christian Wörns 1998-99 2.78 Jens Nowotny 1999-00 2.76 Nico Jan Hoogma 2000-01 2.98 Jens Nowotny 2001-02 2.78 Lucio 2002-03 2.84 Willy Sagnol 2003-04 2.70 Lucio 2004-05 2.81 Marcelo Bordon 2005-06 2.92 Lucio 2006-07 2.96 Per Mertesacker 2007-08 2.75 Martin Demichelis 2008-09 2.88 Philipp Lahm 2009-10 2.86 Sami Hyypiä 1963-64 1.70 Walter Schmidt 1.73 Josef Marx 1.90 Heinz Steinmann 2.03 Joachim Bäse 2.10 Egon Horst 1964-65 1.70 Klaus-Dieter Sieloff 1.77 Walter Schmidt 1.87 Wolfgang Weber 2.00 Horst Saida 2.04 Willi Schulz 1965-66 1.40 Josef Marx 1.67 Franz Beckenbauer 1.82 Klaus Fichtel 1.88 Walter Schmidt 1.91 Wolfgang Weber 1.91 Ferdinand Wenauer 1966-67 1.67 Franz Beckenbauer 1.82 Walter Schmidt 1.84 Wolfgang Weber 1.85 Josef Marx 1.92 Ferdinand Wenauer 1967-68 1.52 Joachim Bäse 1.74 Berti Vogts 1.81 Franz Beckenbauer 1.85 Klaus Fichtel 1.85 Ferdinand Wenauer 1968-69 1.58 Franz Beckenbauer 1.65 Berti Vogts 1.79 Klaus Fichtel 2.06 Bernd Patzke 2.06 Hermann Nuber 1969-70 1.50 Franz Beckenbauer 1.82 Berti Vogts 2.03 Klaus-Dieter Sieloff 2.18 Uwe Witt 2.19 Klaus Fichtel 2.19 Horst-Dieter Höttges 1970-71 1.76 Franz Beckenbauer 1.91 Berti Vogts 1.96 Klaus Fichtel 2.06 Klaus-Dieter Sieloff 2.13 Uwe Witt 1971-72 1.91 Franz Beckenbauer 2.12 Klaus Fichtel 2.16 Klaus-Dieter Sieloff 2.17 Rolf Rüssmann 2.23 Paul Breitner 1972-73 1.82 Berti Vogts 1.88 Franz Beckenbauer 1.96 Rolf Rüssmann 2.13 Jupp Kapellmann 2.18 Bernd Cullmann 1973-74 1.79 Franz Beckenbauer 2.15 Bernard Dietz 2.19 Berti Vogts 2.24 Paul Breitner 2.33 Willi Entenmann 2.33 Ludwig Müller 1974-75 1.79 Berti Vogts 1.88 Franz Beckenbauer 2.09 Bernard Dietz 2.09 Manfred Ritschel 2.15 Klaus Franke 1975-76 1.79 Berti Vogts 1.88 Franz Beckenbauer 1.97 Bernard Dietz 2.03 Willi Neuberger 2.16 Per Roentved 1976-77 1.96 Berti Vogts 2.00 Franz Beckenbauer 2.21 Herbert Zimmermann 2.22 Wolfgang Weber 2.24 Ditmar Jakobs 2.24 Hans-Jürgen Wittkamp 1977-78 2.03 Bernard Dietz 2.06 Rolf Rüssmann 2.21 Karlheinz Förster 2.21 Franz-Josef Tenhagen 2.21 Berti Vogts 1978-79 2.15 Dieter Bast 2.15 Bernd Martin 2.24 Klaus Fichtel 2.28 Gerd Zewe 2.38 Karlheinz Förster 1979-80 2.00 Hans-Peter Briegel 2.24 Franz-Josef Tenhagen 2.25 Manfred Kaltz 2.26 Karlheinz Förster 2.31 Klaus Fichtel 1980-81 2.16 Bruno Pezzey 2.21 Hans-Peter Briegel 2.21 Wilfried Hannes 2.26 DieterBast 2.39 Rolf Rüssmann 1981-82 2.18 Rolf Rüssmann 2.21 Dieter Bast 2.31 Manfred Kaltz 2.32 Holger Hieronymus 2.32 Klaus Fichtel 1982-83 2.09 Dieter Bast 2.29 Gerd Strack 2.34 Karlheinz Förster 2.44 Horst Wohlers 2.45 Hans-Peter Briegel 1983-84 2.07 Matthias Herget 2.22 Karlheinz Förster 2.43 Hans-Peter Makan 2.44 Gerd Zewe 2.45 Dieter Bast 1984-85 2.48 Matthias Herget 2.52 Bruno Pezzey 2.52 Karlheinz Förster 2.63 Bernard Dietz 2.65 Hans Pflügler 1985-86 2.32 Thomas Hörster 2.39 Bruno Pezzey 2.57 Wolfgang Funkel 2.59 Karlheinz Förster 2.67 Klaus Augenthaler 2.67 Hans-Günter Bruns 2.67 Günter Sebert 1986-87 2.56 Ditmar Jakobs 2.58 Guido Buchwald 2.59 Thomas Hörster 2.67 Stefan Reuter 2.69 Jürgen Kohler 1987-88 2.33 Jürgen Kohler 2.52 Rune Bratseth 2.65 Manfred Binz 2.66 Srecko Bogdan 2.69 Matthias Herget 1988-89 2.50 Rune Bratseth 2.58 Jürgen Kohler 2.58 Klaus Augenthaler 2.66 Karl Allgöwer 2.67 Karl-Heinz Körbel 1989-90 2.54 Guido Buchwald 2.62 Manfred Binz 2.63 Thomas Kempe 2.66 Rune Bratseth 2.76 Ralf Loose 1990-91 2.57 Guido Buchwald 2.69 Jürgen Kohler 2.74 Reinhard Stumpf 2.77 Stefan Reuter 2.77 Miroslav Kadlec 1991-92 2.53 Manfred Binz 2.72 Holger Fach 2.74 Franco Foda 2.79 Anders Giske 2.84 Michael Schulz 1992-93 2.83 Rune Bratseth 2.90 Oliver Kreuzer 2.94 Kakhaber Tchachadze 2.95 Ned Zelic 2.96 Dietmar Beiersdorfer 1993-94 2.42 Lothar Matthäus 2.70 Matthias Sammer 2.73 Thomas Berthold 2.84 Guido Buchwald 2.85 Miroslav Kadlec 1994-95 2.17 Matthias Sammer 2.62 Patrik Andersson 2.66 Julio César 2.75 Thomas Helmer 2.83 Martin Spanring 1995-96 2.67 Dietmar Beiersdorfer 2.86 Matthias Sammer 2.86 Jürgen Kohler 2.88 Frank Verlaat 2.89 Patrik Andersson 1996-97 2.62 Christian Wörns 2.74 Alfred Nijhuis 2.75 Frank Verlaat 2.80 Olaf Thon 2.81 Thomas Berthold 1997-98 2.81 Christian Wörns 2.84 Olaf Thon 2.87 Miroslav Kadlec 2.88 Lothar Matthäus 2.92 Michael Schjönberg 1998-99 2.78 Jens Nowotny 2.79 Holger Greilich 2.84 Bixente Lizarazu 2.88 Frank Verlaat 2.96 Lothar Matthäus 1999-2000 2.76 Nico Jan Hoogma 2.77 Jens Nowotny 2.95 Olaf Thon 3.00 Jan Seifert 3.04 Ned Zelic 2000-01 2.98 Jens Nowotny 3.04 Thomas Cichon 3.09 Jürgen Kohler 3.13 Christian Wörns 3.13 Tomas Ujfalusi 2001-02 2.78 Lucio 2.78 Jens Nowotny 2.88 Christian Wörns 3.02 Marcelo Bordon 3.06 Jürgen Kohler 2002-03 2.84 Willy Sagnol 2.97 Thomas Linke 3.10 Christoph Metzelder 3.17 Lucio 3.19 Ahmed Madouni 2003-04 2.70 Lucio 2.78 Juan 2.81 Marcelo Bordon 2.86 Valerien Ismael 2.90 Christian Wörns 2004-05 2.81 Marcelo Bordon 2.86 Lucio 2.95 Valerien Ismael 3.03 Josip Simunic 3.06 Daniel van Buyten 2005-06 2.92 Lucio 3.09 Christian Wörns 3.13 Willy Sagnol 3.15 Cris 3.24 Philipp Lahm 2006-07 2.96 Per Mertesacker 2.97 Naldo 2.98 Marcelo Bordon 3.03 Fernando Meira 3.03 Matthieu Delpierre 2007-08 2.75 Martin Demichelis 2.87 Marcelo Bordon 2.98 Per Mertesacker 3.06 Daniel van Buyten 3.15 Gonzalo Castro 2008-09 2.88 Philipp Lahm 2.88 Josip Simunic 3.04 Per Mertesacker 3.09 Arne Friedrich 3.14 Benedikt Höwedes 2009-10 2.86 Sami Hyypiä 3.04 Gonzalo Castro 3.04 Philipp Lahm 3.05 Naldo 3.05 Daniel van Buyten |
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| Johnbuildr | Aug 24 2010, 01:16 PM Post #14 |
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Not only do the grades get worse as you move towards modern times, they get noticeably worse each and every decade. Beckenbauer gets the grand prize for most first place finishes! |
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Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum | |
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| raconteur | Aug 24 2010, 03:01 PM Post #15 |
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Advanced Member
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I had never heard of Josef Marx before [the missing Marx brother? One of Karl's lost relatives? ] But he holds the prize for having the lowest season rating of 1.40 in 1965-6. Interetsing that wa shis only year wher ehe was the highest rated defender and only in two other years did he finish in the top 5 at his position.As John mentions Beckenbauer, not surprisingly, holds the mark for most times being rated the best at his position. Look at 1966-7 through 1977-8, every year but one, (1967-8 with Joachim Base) the top rated defender was either Franz Beckenbauer or his national teammate Berti Vogts. And even in the year where Base won, Vogts and Beckenbauer finished 2-3. Now that is consistency. I am a huge fan of both Franco Baresi and Gaetano Scirea but to me Beckenbauer was the best defender I ever saw play. |
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] But he holds the prize for having the lowest season rating of 1.40 in 1965-6. Interetsing that wa shis only year wher ehe was the highest rated defender and only in two other years did he finish in the top 5 at his position.
6:36 AM Jul 11