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| Champions League 2010-11 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 16 2010, 07:51 AM (4,378 Views) | |
| enganche | Apr 27 2011, 09:50 PM Post #301 |
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Pepe has been playing on the edge of the precipice in each of these clasicos, I was not surprised to see him sent off. I will take the opposite view to the majority here and say his expulsion was not out of the question. Watch a replay of the foul, he does not really go for the ball. And how did Lass Diarra escape without any cautions in this game when he kicked everything that moved near him? Who does Diarra think he is, Mark van Bommel? ![]() The pre match talk was how Madrid were on the rise and Barcelona going downhill, well this game showed those views were misplaced as Madrid played with fear and Barcelona looked to create play and look who won at the Bernabeu. |
| Prefiero morir de pie que vivir arrodillado | |
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| Simon | Apr 28 2011, 03:12 AM Post #302 |
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I suppose familiarity breeds contempt and so it was inevitable that a poisonous atmosphere would come to pervade 4 matches between two fierce rivals, but last night's game was a really unedifying spectacle. Others have already discussed Madrid's approach so I won't go back over old ground. But I must also say that I was disgusted with some of Barcelona's conduct as well. Everytime I see this lad Sergio Busquets he annoys me more and more, it's like all he wants to do is hit the ground and try and get other players into trouble. There was an appalling incident in the first half when a Madrid player, I forget who, came past him and Busquets made out he'd been hit in the face. Replays showed that there was either no contact, or to be incredibly charitable to him that maybe there was utterly minimal contact, but of course he rolled around as if he'd just taken a full-on punch from David Hay. Moments later the poor little flower was pouring water onto his face to try and soothe his 'agony'! It was truly embarrassing, and yet he must no that the cameras pick all this up and yet he has no shame about it. Pedro and Dani Alves are always up to this sort of thing as well. The nadir came with Pepe's challenge on Alves. I certainly wouldn't call it a red, but naturally Alves shrieked in agony and pirouetted into the air. Then, depressingly, the entire Barcelona team rushed around the referee and demanded a red card. I truly hate that kind of behaviour, and I can't imagine why a team like Barcelona have to stoop that low. I saw where Adebayor had the following to say after the game. "Everyone talks about Barcelona and their fair play but I think they are very far away from fair play. Whenever you make contact when going for a one-on-one or 50-50 ball they are on the floor crying, putting their hand up near their face. Their manager, fans and the players on the bench are always crying. Barcelona is a fantastic club, has fantastic players, but they have to stop that." Those are bitter words from someone who had just lost an important game, but to be honest I agree with most of what he says. I do wish Barcelona would cut that sort of stuff out. As for Mourinho, count me on the list of people who are sick and tired of him. To briefly reprise the tactical discussion that other posters have had, it was a shame to see the most expensively assembled team in football history playing in such a negative way in a home match. But worse than that is his attitude. Consider these comments - "It's clear that against Barcelona you have no chance. I don't know if it's the publicity of Unicef, I don't know if it's because they are very nice, but they've got this power. I don't know if it's the friendship of Villar at Uefa, where he is vice-president. Guardiola is a fantastic coach, but he's won one Champions League which I would be ashamed to win after the scandal at Stamford Bridge and this year, if he wins it again, it will be after the scandal at the Bernabeu. I hope that one day he will win a clean Champions League, with no incidents behind it." "Why couldn't Chelsea reach the final two years ago? It was a miracle that Inter reached the final last year. I am here just to ask this question and I hope to get the answer one day. If we go there and score a goal, they (the officials?) will kill us again. We have no chance. They have to get to the final and that's that." It's clear that he suggests that Barcelona have got the referees sewn up, and that the fiasco at Stamford Bridge in 2009 was due to corruption rather than mere incompetence on the part of that Norwegian referee. Those are pretty outrageous things to say. The worst part of it all for me is that Mourinho is forever wittering on about how much he wants to return to England, and it seems widely accepted that he'll take over from Ferguson. I hope with all my heart that it doesn't happen. Anyway, that's been a long and negative post after a match that left a bad taste in my mouth, so let me at least end by saying thank god for Messi and another superlative goal! |
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| Merengue | Apr 28 2011, 06:15 AM Post #303 |
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Very well said Simon on all points. I was going to write about Barcelona's gamesmanship but you beat me to it. And Busquets, as you note, is the worst offender of all, followed by Alves and Pedro. And this does not just occur against Real Madrid, I still remember last year's semifinal vs Inter when Busquets conned the ref to send off Thiago Motta and as he is supposedly holding his face in agony over the "brutal" foul he just received you can see him peaking between his hands to see if the referee gave Thiago Motta a card. Busquets disgusts me whether he is playing for Barcelona or Spain. And he does not need to resort to such tactics because he is a very good defensive midfielder. As for Mourinho, I have previously made my thoughts on his tactics and antics known here. I like Martin's comments about hoping he no longer "dirties the towels" at Real Madrid any longer. Real Madrid were always known as a classy club before his arrival but he has brought the club down into the mud along with him. That saddens me. As for the game itself, Madrid did not play and to have all of that talent and stifle them with such negative tactics is beyond maddening. I thought Pepe's red card was harsh but Madrid did not do anything to deserve anything out of that match. Welcome back Martin, good to read your comments here again my friend. |
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| libero | Apr 28 2011, 06:38 AM Post #304 |
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Include me with those not happy about Barcelona's gamesmanship and like Merengue I too vividly recall Busquets peaking through his hands despite his "agony" to see if Thiago Motta was red carded in last year's semifinal. It is too bad an otherwise exemplary Barcelona side have players who resort to this. Despite all of that they are still preferable to Mourinho and his negative and divisive tactics. Messi's 2nd goal was a wonderful way to cap the evening and put an end to any realistic hope Madrid may have had in leg 2. A Barcelona-Manchester United rematch should be intriguing and this time I would expect Manchester United to have a better showing than they did two years ago in the final. Their teamwork, composure and defensive ability gives them a legitimate chance against Barcelona. |
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| Johnbuildr | Apr 28 2011, 07:43 AM Post #305 |
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Whew! Once again after this board has spoken, there is so little left to say! And, Simon, you really ought to be a professional sports analyst or writer, assuming you are not. If only FIFA and all fans felt like we do about this increasingly ridiculous play-acting and post-slightest-contact diving. It was utterly sickening last night and it is flatly disrupting my devotion to the game to some degree. These top level clowns are the examples set for the rest of the soccer playing world. How very, very sad for our sport. A really dissapointing game overall for the reasons stated by others, with exceptions to Barca's attacking spirit and, of course, the incomparable Messi.
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Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum | |
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| The Artful Codger | Apr 28 2011, 05:28 PM Post #306 |
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I too will join in the praise of Simon's writings here, not bad for a Manchester United fan! Actually everybody's contributions are a pleasure to read here which is why I enjoy this message board so much. Keep it going lads even during the slower summer months!The familiarity breeds contempt comment is I think spot on. Seems that each match these past few weeks between Barcelona and Madrid has become progressively more edgy as there is not much time between matches for the players to forget some perceived slight or hard foul committed by a member of the opposing team. Yet the gamesmanship by both clubs but especially Barcelona was very disheartening particularly coming from a club which otherwise is exemplary in its play and features such likeable stars as Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. Apart from feigning injury what really got me wa show after every foul Barcelona's entire bench would get up in unison as if a horrible crime had just occurred and 4-5 players would immeditaely run over and plead with the referee for harsh treatment for the offender. That is something officials need to deal with by immediately carding players other than the club captain trying to argue and/or influence the referee. Some quick bookings will keep players from acting that way. As for the play on the field Barcelona were the team looking to play, while Madrid even at home, as others mentioned, and with such an expensively assembled side, were playing for a draw. pretty sad and even with Barcelona's histrionics, you have to say there was some sort of football justice in yesterday's score which all but ensures a Barcelona-Manchester United Final. |
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| Merengue | Apr 28 2011, 09:47 PM Post #307 |
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Codger nice to have you join us too. I have enjoyed reading your commentary here. And yes Simon's writing always is of a very high quality and a joy to read. This is from Real Madrid's own web page but take a look at this video compiling some of Barcelona's theatrics during Wednesday's match: http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/en/..._Alves__leg.htm You can see Busquets and Pedro each holding their faces in agony even when there was only contact at other parts of their body. But pay special attention 1:30 into the video as Pepe did not even touch Dani Alves on the play which earned him a red card! Alves is moving out of the way of Pepe's leg and no contact was made. Yet there was Alves spinning to the floor like he was hit by a train and rolling on the ground holding his ankle in agony (when if there was any contact it would have been higher up his leg on the shin!) while at least a half dozen Barcelona players are rushing over to remonstrate at referee Wolfgang Stark. Pretty crass behavior. And after watching this video I am even more angry now than I was after the match. |
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| Sporting | Apr 28 2011, 11:11 PM Post #308 |
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Merengue, I too saw this video but there have been suggestions on other websites that some frames are missing from it. I have no idea if this is true or not, though. On edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8U6D1dMq7o With regards to the second leg next week, Mourinho has said he considers the tie already lost, but I suspect though this is probably true, his words were those of a man seriously upset and angry (largely due to his own errors and stupidity) immediately after the game. In the training sessions he'll be telling his players that all is not yet lost. But how should Madrid approach the match in the Nou Camp? Personally, I think they could do worse than use a lot of the players who started against Valencia in the league recently, go all out from the beginning and hope to unsettle Barça with an early goal. Better to go out with all guns blasting than play the defensive game again. I'm sure Madrid fans would appreciate some bravery from their coach just now. |
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| Simon | Apr 29 2011, 03:47 AM Post #309 |
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Ah cheers lads, but honestly it's just the whole message board that's so enjoyable to read and participate in. Watching that video through, Merengue and other Real Madrid fans are justified in being angry. It's such a shame, Barcelona are a fine football side with many excellent players, and they genuinely don't need to do that type of thing. They could still win without such cynicism and gamesmanship. I was amused at the inclusion of Rio Ferdinand's Twitter comment on that video -"This diving is a joke/embarrassing. When Pedro watches that do you think he'll think, "What was I doing!?" Rugby players must laugh at football. If you ever see me go off on a stretcher then run back on to play, I give everyone on here the green light to hit me with a two-footed tackle." His point about rugby is one that is commonly made. You only need to watch 5 minutes of a rugby game to gain a true appreciation of what it actually takes to knock a full grown athlete to the ground. And then you turn back to the football, and see players hurling themselves to the ground at the slightest contact. As John said, that type of thing can't help but damage the credibility and image of this sport. People who aren't fans of football are hardly likely to be converted when they see this sort of thing. |
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| Pepe | Apr 29 2011, 07:12 AM Post #310 |
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These competing videos on whether my namesake made contact with Dani Alves or not just adds to the mystique of the match. Maybe that is one of the beauties of the sport, there is always some controversy which fans can discuss? Plenty of blame to go around on both sides though for turning what should have been a great spectacle into a farce. Madrid under Mourinho have turned into a cynical team who play on a razor's edge, particularly players like Pepe, Ramos and Diarra. When you play that way there will be times when you risk unnecessary expulsions. And Barcelona, as Simon writes just do not need to resort to tactics where they try and fool the referee. They play such pleasing football, why unnecessarily risk that with such blatant gamesmanship as shown by Busquets and Pedro? Regarding the second leg, I agree with Sporting, Madrid should turn the team loose, use Higuain, Kaka and maybe some of the others who shredded Valencia apart last weekend. Surprise Barcelona by trying to take the play to them at the Nou Camp. What does Real Madrid have to lose? They already are down 2 goals. |
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| Yogi | Apr 29 2011, 07:52 AM Post #311 |
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Sid Lowe has a pretty worthwhile analysis of the game, http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writ...drid/index.html And like many of the posters here he points a finger at both teams for how things went down last Wednesday night. As a neutral I too would like to see Mourinho turn his team loose and let them attack. They will not make up two goals of difference on the road playing as they did in leg 1. |
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| Merengue | Apr 29 2011, 09:01 AM Post #312 |
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Thanks Sporting for the link trying to refute the video I posted. If it is true that the video which was eventually posted on Real Madrid's site was doctored then that will be a real low moment for a club which I thought had sunk as low as possible already under the stewardship of Florentino Perez. As for how to play leg 2, I am fully behind the plan Sporting advocates, play an attacking team using many of the players who tore Valencia apart. Get Higuain and Kaka out there and have a go at Barcelona's defense. I for one do not buy into the theory that the only way to beat Barcelona is to pack the defense and try and hit them on the counter. With all of Barcelona's absences their defense can be vulnerable when you run at them, have a go and see what happens! |
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| Merengue | May 2 2011, 07:18 PM Post #313 |
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So Real Madrid head to Barcelona without the suspended Ramos and Pepe and the injured Khedira. But Carvalho is back from suspension. The general feeling in Madrid is the team will scrap the no center forward lineup used in both the Copa del Rey and the first leg of this Champions league semifinal series. That should mean a return for Benzema and with nothing to lose i would hope Madrid will look to attack Barcelona. Some surprisingly good news from Barcelona as Eric Abidal has returned to the game day roster. Shocking news that he is already back after his illness but great news all the same. I doubt if he is ready to start after his time out but he could be available as a late game sub. Andres Iniesta is also back and odds are Keita will be the player sacrificed so Iniesta can return to the starting team. In many ways the 2-0 away win for Barcelona has taken away a lot of the mystique from this last of the clubs' four meetings in the past 18 days but here is hoping there is still some drama left and that we will see a much better game than leg 1. |
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| Onslow | May 3 2011, 04:36 AM Post #314 |
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Abidal's return is surprising but very good news. It is doubtful he will play this match but his return apart from the obvious human interest side of it, is also good news for Barcelona with their series of defencive injuries. So after a week of mud slinging from both sides I think we all hope football becomes the main story tonight but the bitterness does not seem to have dissipated and it could turn really ugly. Can you imagine Madrid, if they realise they no longer can win the tie going out and trying to ensure Barcelona go down with them? I can see that, remember how ugly things turned last November when Barcelona beat Madrid 5-0? |
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| Yogi | May 3 2011, 07:43 AM Post #315 |
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UEFA getting Serious About Sorting Things Out Between Barcelona and Real Madrid If anybody can sort this out it would be Collina, even if he won't actually be on the field of play. |
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Actually everybody's contributions are a pleasure to read here which is why I enjoy this message board so much. Keep it going lads even during the slower summer months!

5:03 PM Jul 10