Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Soccer Futbol Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
2010 men's Olympic hockey tournament
Topic Started: Feb 8 2010, 04:45 PM (2,584 Views)
Mr. Pither
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Bubnik not only had a good hockey career, but he was part of Czechoslovakia’s bronze medal team from the 1960 Euro soccer championships. He scored three times in Euro 60. A few eastern bloc athletes played both soccer and hockey internationally in the late 50s and early 60s.


Now this I would like to read more about. I suppose the general concept is similar where as long as you could skate and had the proper technique for both sports they could be compatible. I do remember reading where Jari Litmanen was a big supporter of ice hockey and considered playing it before opting to play football.

Great work here, I do not follow ice hockey at all but still have enjoyed reading this discussion.
P-I-T-H-E-R ...as in Brotherhood, but with PI instead of the BRO and no HOOD
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hobbes
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Mr. Pither, the really short version is that when the Communist Bloc decided to take up hockey as a serious winter sport (the Czechs had a history with it, the Soviets played bandy, an 11-a-side, full pitch hockey, that is more like field hockey on ice than ice hockey) they really pushed for it and many of their top early players were also top soccer players. I’ll write about it more later when I have more time.

Great day of games yesterday. The Swiss had a hangover against Norway, but won in OT. Hiller was not sharp, but Norway played well. In fact I think they were pretty hard done by. They got a too-many men penalty in the third period that led to Switzerland going ahead 4-3. Line changes have been an aboination all tournament (the Czechs have been particularly bad). You have 10 feet of leeway to make a change, rather than the five feet in the NHL and everyone seems to be pushing that as far as you can. On the penalty both teams had too many men, but the Norwegian was father from his bench than the Swiss player. How do you call that in the third period of a tie game? Neither guy was anywhere near 10 feet IMO.

Vikingstad got a hat trick. The last Norwegian nat trick came in 1972 . . . against the Swiss. I was surprised the Norwegians were able to score four, but that top line has been good and Hiller wasn’t sharp.

And Belarus stunned Germany. I’ve been surprised by Belarus. I thought they could get blown out without two of their top players. They aren’t as talented as some teams, but they have loads of skill. In a way they kind of remind me of a lower CONCACAF team at the World Cup. They’re not likely to win many games, but have a lot of style and skill galore.

Belarus’ speed killed Germany through the neutral zone. They had some many odd-man rushes and Greiss, the San Jose back up just wasn’t as sharp as he needed to be. And Belarus went with Koval instead of Mezin which surprised me. I didn’t think Koval was that sharp (poor rebound control, one long shot that went through him and stopped before crossing the line), but he’s had two starts and got the win, so he may get the start Tuesday.

I’m a little disappointed we’re not going to get a Swiss-Germany second round game. I think it would have been a fun match up. The German size can really give teams problems. The Finns and Belarussians used their speed, but the Swiss like to sit back and counter and I thought that might play into Germany’s hands. It doesn’t matter now, the Swiss will get Belarus and Germany is waiting to play the six seed in what could be a trap game.

I was critical of the Germans not picking Jochen Hecht originally, but he’s been crap. He started to pick it up a bit against Belarus, but overall has struggled. He needs to be better to help get the top line going. If the Germans can ever get their power play going (and Ehrhoff should be able to get it going) they could be a tough team to beat for that six seed.

Latvia’s being overwhlemed which isn’t a shock in a tough pool. I don’t think they’ll put up a better fight as the 12 seed, but I do think they’re a little better than their record has shown.

The Canadians are putting Richards on the top line with Crosby and Nash. Third straight game with a different top line. I think it’s a huge mistake, but we shall see.

The Russia-Czech game is about to start, so let’s get Super Sunday going!

cheers,
hobbes
Saskatchewan for the CPL: multis e gentibus vires
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
libero
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
2 games down, one to go on Super Sunday and both Russia and the United States scored late goals when the opposition pulled their goalies to win by 2 goals. The Czechs took a 2-1 lead on Russia but Ovechkin was great in leading the Russian comeback. For the US, Rafalski scored their first 2 goals and although Canada came back and tied it, the US would almost immediately reply and go back in front again. They pushed Canada into playing catchup for most of the game. Canada put plenty of pressure on the US goal but Miller was hard to beat. Brodeur made a few good saves for Canada but I would be interested in what others have to say as I thought he let in a few soft goals. On to the nightcap between Sweden and Finland.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hobbes
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
I present to you my inner diologue after the second American goal: “wait, he’s not pulling Brodeur? Really?! Hmmmm. I have Mike Babcock’s cell number. Well there’s no way he has it on the bench or would answer it even if he did. Maybe I could I text him . . .”

Well Martin Brodeur may have cost Canada a shot at a medal. You have to give Ryan Miller all sorts of credit, but Brodeur’s gaffes cost Canada three goals and one was so calamatous he could have saved us all some trouble by shooting it in his own net.

The second goal he batted it up the middle of the ice and then bizarely tried to stack the pads on a point shot instead of getting into his butterfly. Same thing on the fourth goal (it was deflected, so I don’t blame him, but if he just gets down like he always does he stops it). It’s like he watched a game tape from 1984 and decided he liked the stand-up style all of a sudden. That giveaway up the middle came minutes after he cleared the puck short-handed up the middle through three guys. It was miracle that one came off.

I was a touch worried about the post-game, but it sounds like everything went well. They forced the closure of every liquor store downtown and despite the fact that 150,000 were downtown in the streets to watch the game it sounds like there weren’t any problems.

No team has ever gone unbeaten in men’s hockey since the NHLers got involved in 1998, so really there’s going to be bumps in the road, but the country is seething. I hate to say I told you so, but Pronger and Bergeron have been crap. I was laughed at when I suggested goal scoring may be a problem and we’d regret not picking Steven Stamkos. They’re not laughing now.

I’m surprised Neidermeyer has been as bad as he has been. I can’t believe they’re still tinkering with the first line. I’m glad Doughty is playing great and Keith was quite good tonight. The Shark line and Toews-Getzlaf-Perry were pretty good (though Perry’s been dumb in this tourney). Really I think if Canada gets passible goaltending they may have won.

Rafalski was fantastic as were a few of the defencemen (the Johnsons both played well), but a lot of the forwards didn’t play that well. But when you bury your chances and your goaltender plays that well what else do you need?

I was surprised by the Swedes tonight. They didn’t blow me away, but I liked how the Finns had been playing and the Swedes totally dominated them early. Then they weatherd a second period where the Fins spent seven minutes on the power play, two of them 5-on-3 and didn’t score. I thought the Finns power-play had been excellent in the first two games. Now after the Germans had loads of chances on the power play against the Swedes at 0-0 and the Finns had even more chances 1-0 down and I have to give the Swedish kill a ton of credit.

I’m still not sold on the Swedes, but they were great on the cycle and while they took penalties, they also killed them off. And Lundqvist still hasn’t given up a goal.

I was critical of going 8-12 and it’s already reared its head. Pahlsson has the flu, so the Swedes started the game with 11 forwards and then Hornqvist got hurt. Luckily the Swedes were in trap/kill the game mode, but I don’t think you can survive the grind down the stretch with 10 forwards.

They mentioned that Doug Murray helped invent a household beer keg tap that created a better flow for the beer during his days in Cornell. It has a patent. I like him even more now. :)

The Russians flipped Datsyuk and Malkin and wow what a difference. Malkin and Ovechkin may have been cool to each other in the past, but both said they wanted to play together and they were dynamite together with Semin. Datsyuk played his best game of the tournament by a mile playing a great defensive game. If Kovalchuk or Afinogenov had any finish he would have had a huge point night. As it stood he won two defensive zone draws in the last minute and iced the game with an empty net goal he water-bottled. I’ve never seen that.

Ovechkin changed the game with a crushing open-ice hit on Jagr that led to a quick Malkin-Semin two-on-one and quickly it was 3-1 Russia.

I still like Bryzgalov better than Nabakov, but Nabakov made a couple of good saves in this one. Plekanec scored a great goal for the Czechs as well.

I’m still baffled by the Czechs defence. They’ve apparently decided that Polak and Hejda are their shutdown pair. They worked to get a match up with them against the Ovechkin line. I don’t get it. Kubina and Blatak barely play. Zidlicky is having a great tournament and he and Kuba have been solid and are their best pair by a lot, but Hejda got pounded by the Russian forecheck all day because he’s slow and Polak nearly gave Ovechkin and early breakaway.
Polak fell asleep covering Kozlov on the 2-1 goal as well.

The Czechs started line juggling and put Jagr-Cajanek-M.Michalek together along with Erat-Elias-Plekanec. Havlat was poor and was rightfull demoted, but Jagr and Cervenka have natural chemistry and I expect them to be back together Tuesday.

The Russians suffered a huge loss when Radulov took a cross-checking penalty and saw the player he hit fall on Zinoviev. Zinoviev never came back and again, the Russians are going 8-12, so they double-shifted their centres, meaning 40-year-old Sergei Fedorov was forced to log big minutes. It’s not a good sign.

The Russians also were on their heels a little and have shown signs of not killing games off very well. They had chances to end it and didn’t take them. I felt the same in the Slovak game. They were great in the final minute, but they sat back too much in the third. The Swedes and Czechs do that well. The Russians should keep attacking. They must have one of the biggest forward corps in the tournament. It’s an under-rated side of their game. Ovechkin, Malkin, Fedorov, Semin, Kozlov, Kovalchuk and Morozov are all 6-2 or taller.

Their defence continues to impress me. They’re not great, but they’re fine. They’re much better than anyone gave them credit for. Kalinin’s played very well. Grebeshkov and Korneyev have been consistent. Nikulin’s been steady.

The quarterfinalist are:
1. U.S.
2. Sweden
3. Russia
4. Finland

and the second round games are:
Czech Rep. vs. Latvia
Canada vs. Germany
Slovakia vs. Norway
Belarus vs. Switzerland (I’m not sure how they break the tie for 8/9 but it doesn’t really matter except for last change).

Not sure on the time sked, but the Canada game will be at 7:30 ET.

So Canada gets the trap game against Germany and easily the hardest of the second round and then they get Russia if they win. The Americans get Belarus or the Swiss.

Now that we have a bracket I’m calling a Russia-Finland final.

I’ll probably throw together some second round thoughts tomorrow.

cheers,
hobbes
Saskatchewan for the CPL: multis e gentibus vires
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Yogi
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
The US hockey team reminded me a bit of the 2002 World Cup soccer team, score early by making efficient use of your opportunities, rely on good play in goal and find ways to strike back after the opponent has scored again. I am sure there is a collective angst in Canada now over the goaltending issue. Brodeur for all of his past accomplishments was just a liability last night.

Like hobbes, I was very impressed with Sweden and how they just blanketed Finland. Sunday was fun but now is when the tourney really begins.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Martin
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
hobbes and millions of his countrymen are getting their wish as Luongo will start in goal in place of Brodeur in Canada's next game.

I agree with Yogi, yesterday was fun even for non hockey fans like myself but now is when the competition really begins. I assume since most of these teams just got together a few days before the competition began, teams should be starting to come together now and improve their overall play. Those that adapt best to this will be the ones who succeed in the knockout stages.
Club Sportivo Desamparados
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sporting
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Nothing original or new to add except thanks for those involved in making this thread a really interesting one even for those like me who know next to nothing about the sport.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Yogi
Member Avatar
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
I heard something interesting, Luongo and Brodeur are both from the same town and their fathers are close friends, not sure how close the two goalies are to one another, but it is an interesting tidbit that in a large country like Canada, the two top national team goalies each come from the same smallish town. It is a bit similar to the early 90s US soccer team with three players-John Harkes, Tab Ramos and Tony Meola who all grew up together in Kearny, New Jersey. The difference is when those US players grew up, Kearny, New Jersey was one of a limited number of cities in the US where soccer was a big sport. Luongo and Brodeur play the national sport of Canada yet both come from the same small town.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hobbes
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
In 2002 Belarus beat Sweden 4-3 in the quarterfinals. After the game, that famed Belorussian philosopher Andrei Mezin offered this gem: “Even a gun without bullets can go off.”

None of the favourites were shot Tuesday, but there were some guns without bullets that threatened to go off.

The biggest surprise to me was Norway nearly beating the Slovaks. Tollefson delivered a vicious elbow to Lubos Bartecko who was stretchered off with a concussion after cracking the back of his head open. In a year of horrible head shots, we’ve now had two at the Olympics. Tollefson got five and a game and the Slovaks scored twice on the power play and looked pissed off enough that 2-0 would be enough.

Norway really only has one dangerous line and yet the Slovaks couldn’t contain them. They got double-shifted and did some damage against the lower Slovak lines, but even with Chara out there the Norwegians tied it with 0.1 of a second left in the second period. Satan scored in the third and the Slovaks went through, but the shots after a period were 20-2 or something for the Slovaks and they let the Norwegians hang around to the point where they out-shot the Slovaks in the third.

Too many Slovakian passengers and Halak was not good. They seemed mad about the cheap shot by Tollefson, but the Norwegians came ready to fight to the death to win and they wanted it more and that was nearly enough.

I was also very surprised by Latvia. Though at least here I wasn’t stunned that the Czechs built a lead and decided to try to sit on it and got burned. I just didn’t think Latvia had the talent to come back like that. Krejci won it in OT for the Czechs whose third and fourth lines scored their three goals. That tells you a lot about how their star players performed.

Jagr also left early in the second period and the speculation is that he’s still not right after the Ovechkin hit.

These extra games can be a blessing or a curse. I think the Czechs got a scare, had to play OT, lost Jagr and probably took a blow to their confidence. I can’t imagine it did anything good for the Slovaks either who lost Bartecko.

For Canada it may have been a blessing in disguise. Despite being the biggest name of the potential upset teams, the Germans didn’t really scare me. They were a near-perfect match up for Canada. I think the Gemans may have given the Swiss or even the Czechs a scare, but their high end talent wasn’t going to worry Canada, their size (which was their intangible) was a non-factor against a big Canadian team and Greiss is good, but not good enough to really scare Canada.

And the Canadians weren’t ready to play a money game. I think they are now. The Staal-Crosby-Iginla line was great. Iginla needs to be top line and he scored twice. Staal provided the grit that Richards couldn’t and taking Nash’s direct game will only help Getzlaf and Perry who still need to pull their heads out and simplify their game. Nash has been playing well, but was a huge talking point because he had never scored an Olympic goal in nine games. He’s great at the worlds, scores in the NHL. Nada in the Olympics. I was amazed they didn’t let him take the penalty shot he earned, but he scored a late one and hopefully that does the trick. The fourth line was fantastic. Toews has been brilliant. Keith and Doughty are emerging as the top pair. They entered the tourney as the sixth and seventh defencemen, but they deserve it. Neidermeyer played well and everything seemed to be clicking.

When the game was close Pronger was barely playing and Bergeron was only killing penalties. After four games the right guys are in the right roles and I think we’re going to see some continuity. Not sure about Luongo. He played well, couldn’t be faulted on the goals, but had little to do. I hope it’s enough to get ready for Russia.

The 8-2 score let the coaches manage the player’s minutes and try to keep everyone fresh for Weds. Something the other coaches didn’t have the luxury of doing.

I was most looking forward to Belarus-Switzerland and it didn’t disappoint. The Belarussians have had a different line step up each game and their transition game has been deadly. I was curious how they would do aganst the Swiss trap, but a huge gaffe by Hiller gave them a lead and forced the Swiss to open the game up.

The Swiss took a lead on two iffy penalties led to power play goals, but Belarus got a few breaks too in the end. Belarus got better as the game went on again and saw their fourth line really bring it. Former NHL coach Glen Hanlon used to coach Belarus and their assistant is still Dave Lewis who is a brilliant coaching mind who was Scotty Bowman’s right-hand man in Detroit. I think that helped this team a lot.

If they had had Sergie Kostitsyn or MIkhail Grabovsky . . . I was surprised they went with Mezin in goal after they used Kopat twice in their round robin games and in the final pool game, but Mezin seemed more likely to steal a game and I thought he played well.

I hate games ending in a shootout.

Looking ahead to the quarters, I think Canada is starting to round into form, but the Russia game is too close to call. I expect it’s going to be close and it will turn on a call or a break. I like the Canadian chances better than I did 24 hours ago, but I’m not sure. Zinoviev is out for the tournament, so that will hurt the Russians. I’m not sure it will hurt them too badly Weds, but down the line it can’t be good to force your centres to play those kind of minutes.

At the end of the Germany game the crowd chanted “we want Russia”. It’s going to be a fun one.

If Hiller can find his game the Swiss can give the U.S. a challenge, but he was off against Norway and had a bad bounce back game. If the U.S. can score early and force the Swiss to open up they should be fine. If they let the Swiss hang around it could be interesting.

I was thinking the Czech-Finland game would be the best of the quarters, but I don’t like how the Czechs are playing going into this. They’ll need Vokoun to be good and probably better than Kiprusoff. The Finns will be without defenceman Joni Pitkannen who is suspended for his hit on Hornqvist in the Sweden game. If the Finns power play stays sharp and they play well they should win. Still this should be a 3-1, 3-2 kind of game, so I’m not going to rule out an upset. I expected it to be very close until the Czechs stunk the joint out tonight.

The Swedes haven’t been flashy, but they’ve been effective and they’ve been very good at playing a simple cycle game and not giving up odd-man rushes. I think they can kill the Slovak defence on the cycle. Guys like Strbak, Sekera and even big Jurcina have struggled to win battles on the wall. The Slovaks were out-worked by Norway, if they let the Swedes do the same they’ll be in deep trouble.

Halak doesn’t look like he’s going to save them either. Not enough of the old guard like Palffy, Stumpel and Satan are creating problems. The Swedish D I think can be exploited, but they’ve been very cohesive and playing a good team D game and I think the Slovaks will struggle to generate.

Yogi: I hadn’t heard that Luongo and Brodeur’s fathers knew each other, but it wouldn’t really surprise me.

Luongo and Brodeur are both from Saint-Leonard, which is a coincidence, but not exactly shocking. It’s probably like having two point guards on the U.S. Olympic basketball team who are both from Bed-Stuy. Most of the dominant goalies from Canada in the last 20 years are from Montreal, so it’s not too weird that Brodeur and Luongo are from the same borough in Montreal. Saint-Leonard is in the north near Claude Robillard where the Impact used to play. I wouldn’t really categorize Saint-Leonard as a small town. Certainly not like Kearny. Is there a reason behind Kerney being so good at developing players? It’s close to New York which must have helped, but was there one person who pushed that?

Quebec goalies have been so dominant in part because of the Allaire brothers who are the gurus of butterfly style goaltending. They started with Patrick Roy, turned J-S Giguere into a winner, they also worked with Luongo. I suspected they worked with No. 3 M-A Fleury was well, but can’t find it. Half of the Quebec goalies in the NHL were tutored by the Allaires when they were kids. The other factor is that the QMJHL is far more wide open than the OHL and the WHL and I believe that leads to goalies seeing more shots and having to make tougher saves through their development through their teen years.

Brodeur’s dad played in the 56 Olympics and was the staff photographer for the Canadiens for 20 years. So he was very well known in Montreal hockey circles.

cheers,
hobbes

Saskatchewan for the CPL: multis e gentibus vires
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
shelsoccer
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
I think soccer's popularity in Kearny is do to its large immigrant population. Harkes and Meola are both first generation; Ramos immigrated as a kid. These guys were also products of the NASL generation, when the nearby Cosmos captured the area's fancy.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ursus arctos
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Kearny's soccer tradition goes back to its very roots in the 19th century.

The first major industry of any sort in Kearny were thread mills built by Scottish firms seeking to expand their market in the US in the last quarter of the 19th c. With the mills came thousands of Scots immigrants, and with the Scots came fitba. That tradition was carried on through subsequent generations of immigrants, including the Irish and Italians.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ursus arctos
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Just wanted to say that Hobbes' guys finally came close to matching the quality of his reports tonight.

Well done, Canada.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
raconteur
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
That was something, looks like Canada woke up. A game Nabokov, Ovechkin and most Russian fans will not forget anytime soon. Actually neither will Canadian fans, but for the opposite reason. :)

Meanwhile Ryan Miller is right now carrying the US, leading them to a 2-0 win over the Swiss.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hobbes
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
That was an interesting quarter-final day.

What a sensational performance by Canada. Pretty much everyone was going and the Russians didn’t come out anywhere near ready for that level of a game. The Canadian commentators harped on the defence, but I think everyone came out poorly. The Datsyuk line wasn’t bad against Crosby, but that was it. Zinoviev was supposed to be out six months and played, but cost them two goals.

Slava Bykov did a lousy job coaching the Russians IMO. Historically some of their coaches have been great tactically, but terrible in-game management. Bykov probably should have pulled Nabakov faster. I’m not sure it would have made a difference, but Bryzgalov only allowed a goal. The Canadians created a Nash-Toews-Richards line just for Ovechkin and they dominated. Bykov had last change and never worked much to get out of the match-up. By time he started to tinker with his lines it was 6-1.

Getzlaf and Perry both played well. The physical play was rolling. It was one of the best Canadian performances I’ve seen. If they can find that level of intensity and execution they’re going to be incredibly hard to beat.

I was hoping the Canadians would match the 8-1 score the USSR put on us in the 81 Canada Cup (after Lake Placid they were just a little motivated, they just pounded Canada in the final), but I’ll take 7-3.

Just as the Russians seemed unprepared for the intensity of the QF, the Swedes came out very casual. I know this is pretty obvious, but when the Swedes play well they spend the game in the other team’s end and use their cycle to destructive effect. When they don’t, they spend too much time in their own zone where their slow defence is succeptible to taking too many penalties. They got into penalty trouble against the Finns and Germans and survived. They also came out and dominated the Finns early.

They didn’t dominate the Slovaks early and the Slovaks scored twice on the power play after earning a lot of chances. Not only did the goals put the Slovaks up, but it helped prevent the Swedes from getting momentum. They spent the rest of the night chasing the game and lost. I’ve been hard on Handzus, but he played very well for the Slovaks who wanted it more.

Halak had a good game after struggling a bit in the qualification game.

It was the same story for Jonas Hiller who found his top form and kept the Swiss in it against the Americans in a pretty lively game. I thought the Americans caught a bad break when a goal Hiller knocked into his own net was ruled to have no crossed the line before time expired. They got that break back when the Americans opened the scoring when a spinning puck took a crazy bounce off the ice after Hiller got a piece of it and spun into the net.

The Czechs and Finns played a very tight game as well. I knew neither team was likely to blow the other out, but I didn’t expect it to be 0-0 after 53 mintues or whatever it was. The Czechs got a bit of a bad break when Pavel Kubina lost his helmet in front of his net on the penalty kill. In international rules (and in junior, so most of the NHLers should be used to it) if you loose your helmet you haev to go off or put it back on. Kubina went behind the net to get his helmet and left Niklas Hagman alone in front to tip in the game-winning goal.

That penalty came about when Erat got a delay of game penalty for shooting the puck over the glass, which is another rule I don’t particularly like.

I thought the Finns were the better team, but Vokoun and Kipper both played well.

So it’s the US v Finland and Canada v Slovakia Friday.

cheers,
hobbes
Saskatchewan for the CPL: multis e gentibus vires
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hobbes
Advanced Member
[ *  *  * ]
Mr. Pither,Feb 21 2010
03:48 AM
Now this I would like to read more about.  I suppose the general concept is similar where as long as you could skate and had the proper technique for both sports they could be compatible.  I do remember reading where Jari Litmanen was a big supporter of ice hockey and considered playing it before opting to play football.

Great work here, I do not follow ice hockey at all but still have enjoyed reading this discussion.

Mr. Pither> like I said the Czechs had a history with hockey (albeit pretty unsuccessful) in the pre-war era, while the Soviets were sticking with bandy which was their own game (it was also played in Scandanavia) which used much shorter sticks and a soccer pitch size field.

But as the propoganda machine got rolling for the USSR the power that be felt they should concentrate their focus on a team winter sport on ice hockey since it was an Olympic sport and help more prestige. They really looked at the game in almost a scientific manner. There were some Czech-Canadians that brought the game back to their home land, but the Soviets didn’t have that kind of direct influence. Instead they read and tried to figure out for themselves how best to play the game.

That led to a rather unique Soviet style, but the progress they made was staggering. They began playing the game in 1946 and went to the world championship for the first time in 1954 — which they won. This was before professionalism at the worlds, but it was also an era of a six-team NHL, so there were some pretty good amateurs representing Canada at the time.

How did they get so good so fast? In part they found the best athletes they could and pushed them to play hockey. Many were bandy players.

Their coach at the 54 worlds was Arkady Chernyshev who was a great bandy player, but also won three Soviet league soccer titles with Dynamo Moscow. I don’t know if there was a lot of crossover in elite bandy and soccer players of that era, but there was similarities in the sports. In any event, some of Chernyshev’s top players did both.

The big star of the 54 team was Vsevolod Bobrov. Bobrov was just utterly ridiculous. He was apparently a pretty good bandy player, but after the war at the age of 23 he started playing soccer for CSKA Moscow. They next year he also started playing hockey for the club.

He won three Soviet soccer titles and led the country in scoring twice. He joined Dynamo Moscow’s famed tour of Britain (where they played Rangers, Chelsea and Arsenal amongst others) on loan from CSKA and he was their best player scoring six goals. He’d score five in three games at the 52 Olympics.

In hockey he won seven national titles and scored more than 250 career goals, becoming the first person to do so. If you score 250 it’s still called The Bobrov Club. He won Olympic hockey gold in 56 and won two world championships.

When the Soviets played Canada in the famed 1972 Summit Series, Bobrov was their coach. He coached the air force team VVS Moscow in hockey and soccer and managed CSKA Moscow’s soccer team in the late 60s and again in the late 70s. I’m pretty sure he helped coach CSKA Moscow’s hockey team with Anatoli Tarasov (he was the good cop to Tarasov’s bad cop as I recall) before Viktor Tikhonov took over in 1977. Tarasov was a genius, but he was really hard on his players (though I think not as bad as Tikhonov — it’s tough to say, they were different eras). Tarasov was also a soccer player and a soccer manger.

From that 54 team Viktor Shuvalov also played soccer for VVS Moscow for three years. I don’t think many played at the high level Bobrov did, but I’ve read that there was some crossover, especially since most clubs had both a soccer and hockey team.

While some played both, others played one at a time. Lev Yashin wasn’t deemed good enough for Dynamo Moscow at the start of his career, so he focused on playing for the hockey team in his early 20s and won the 54 domestic hockey title. Many of the early Soviet hockey goalies stopped the puck in a similar fashion to stopping a ball. They’d drop down and get their body in front of it, sometimes leaning to chest shots away.

I haven’t read as much about the history of Czech hockey (beyond the early origins in Bavaria), so I don’t know if there’s as much crossover, but Vlastimil Bubník shows there was at least some.

cheers,
hobbes
Saskatchewan for the CPL: multis e gentibus vires
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Olympics · Next Topic »
Add Reply