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World Club Cup 2009
Topic Started: Nov 12 2009, 01:44 PM (797 Views)
raconteur
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Good review of the game xeneize. Estudiantes always did look the better of the two teams but I did not think Pohang looked out of their league like Auckland City did versus Atlante. The Korean club though were extremely rough in some of their tackles as they came in trying to exert their phsycial strength on Estudiantes. They knew they could not do that against TP Mazembe so they played that game much less physically than they did this one.

Like xeneize I thought Rodriguez did well from right back and I also liked Brana and Veron in central midfield. Veron did not need to be too active but was always available as an outlet for his teammates while Brana is a typically tough ball winning midfielder. To my eyes Estudiantes will need to be more effective going forward if they are to defeat Barcelona. Pohang did not test their defense too much but from what we saw in this game they responded when need be. But that was not going against Xavi, Iniesta and Ibrahimovic (Messi will miss tomorrow's semifinal and his status for the final is still up in the air.)
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Sergio
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I think xeneize and raconteur's views reflect my own on the game. Estudiantes had some difficulty early on breaking through Pohang's defense but once they got that goal just before the half they were in control of the game. Other than the Pohang goal, (and how was that not offside?) the Koreans never created any real danger even when playing 11 v 11. But Estudiantes hit the post twice and got those two goals from Benitez. Like xeneize I too thought Boselli got a touch to the first goal but Benitez was interviewed after the game and said Boselli told him he did not touch it.

Pohang should have no complaints about either of the first two red cards, both were double yellows and definitely merited. The direct red to the goalie was as xeneize wrote, harsh as the attacker was not going directly towards goal when the goalie made contact, in fact it was the linesman not the center official who made the call.

Estudiantes won with reason and did so without any injuries as far as I know despite the tough tackling of Pohang. They'll now have an extra day than their opponent to prepare for the final.

Tomorrow Barcelona play Atlante and of course Barcelona are the favorite and have a very admirable team. But they still have to prove it on the field. Atlante need to play without fear and as they have skill on the ball they should look to try and make Barcelona do some defensive work. Barcelona are very good but are not invincible, Rubin Kazan have shown us you can beat them with strong defending and opportunism in front of goal. I am looking forward to see what Atlante, a modest club in Mexico with one of the league's smaller budgets can do against mighty Barcelona.
"You left as a champion, you will always be in our hearts. Rest in Peace Christian Benítez."
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Don Balon
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It was humourous seeing Denilson the Pohang forward finish the game in goal, like one of the games we all would be playing in the local park. But the Corean club kicked like crazy, they played a very rough game and deserved their expulsions. And I am in accord with others here wondering how they missed Denilson, and 3 teammates, who were all offside on the Pohang goal. Not one of the better officiated games by Roberto Rossetti, usually one of Europe's finer referees.

Estudiantes were saving themselves for the final. I think they can give Barcelona a better game than Liga de Quito gave Manchester United last season. This team plays with confidence and have a strong leader in Veron.
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enganche
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I was reminded of the 1986 World Cup game between Argentina and Korea when watching this game, I think Diego Maradona still has bruises from the kicking the Koreans gave him then. They were not quite that rough today but they were pretty wild in their tackling and like other posters I thought the first two expulsions for double yellows were deserved. I do think the straight red to the goalie was rigorous but it was interpreted as breaking up a goalscoring opportunity. I see Rossetti often officiating games in Italy and normally he is a sensible ref but I am thinking he was under instructions from FIFA that certain fouls automatically get a card. I do not like those directives and think a referee needs some room for interpretation of the circumstances. But I fear we will see more of this in this tournament and the World Cup.

On to the game, I liked how Estudiantes played even if they did not have to go all out. That is good and it saves something for the final. As somebody else wrote, El Pincha (the club's nickname, short for Pincharratas, or rat stabbers because the club were found by medical students who would do lab experiments on rats!) played with great passion and zeal in the Copa Libertadores and when they play like that they are tough to beat. I agree with Don Balon, Estudiantes can give their opponent a better game than Liga de Quito gave Manchester United last year because this Estudiantes team will not play with fear.
Prefiero morir de pie que vivir arrodillado
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SuperEagle
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I am sure like enganche and other Argentina fans, I was closely watching Pohang because they have a couple of Korea national team players, who will be rivals of Nigeria and Argentina in South Africa. One of those national team players was their captain and centerback who was sent off for two yellwos in this match. The other was the right back who was pretty good overlapping and defending. But both I understand, if wikipedia's statistics can be believed, are reserves with Korea.

Pohang after a slow start came back and were playing Estudiantes pretty evenly until the goal just before halftime by Estudiantes. After that Pohang lost control and Estudiantes without overly extending themselves managed the game well even with Pohang's rough 2nd half tactics. I do not wnat to see Barcelona win this tournament easily and maybe Atlante can give them a good match on Wednesday. if not this Estudiantes team doe slook like it has the tranquility and organization to trouble Barcelona in the final. And their travelling fan support was great. My hat is off to all of those Estudiantes fans making the journey to Abu Dhabi.
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Martin
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enganche,Dec 15 2009
05:43 PM
On to the game, I liked how Estudiantes played even if they did not have to go all out. That is good and it saves something for the final. As somebody else wrote, El Pincha (the club's nickname, short for Pincharratas, or rat stabbers because the club were found by medical students who would do lab experiments on rats!) played with great passion and zeal in the Copa Libertadores and when they play like that they are tough to beat. I agree with Don Balon, Estudiantes can give their opponent a better game than Liga de Quito gave Manchester United last year because this Estudiantes team will not play with fear.

I don't necessarily think Liga de Quito played with fear against Manchester United but they were forced to defend because they could not take the ball off of Manchester United. They defended well but did not show much going forward last year. Estudiantes are a hard working and passionate club but without Gaston (La Gata) Fernandez who was on their Libertadores winning team, I do not think they have enough offensive power to beat Barcelona (assuming Barca defeats Atlante). I hope I am wrong of course and would love to see a South American club defeat Barcelona! :P

I like watching Enzo Perez and Rodrigo Brana play. Perez is such a dynamic attacking player and he will help take up some of the scoring slack left by La Gata Fernandez' departure. While Brana works his socks off disrupting play in midfield. If they play Barcelona, he will be quite the busy player. And I did not know Clemente Rodriguez, a pretty good left back could be so effective playing on the right side of defense. You would hope Maradona was watching him as Argentina could use a player such as Clemente Rodriguez comfortable on either side of defense and who has speed and energy to run the flank.

I have always been impressed with the passion of Estudiantes' fans, they do not have to take a back seat to any other Argentinian club's fans and the fact nearly 5,000 of them turned up halfway around the globe to watch their club play shows how loyal and passionate they really are.
Club Sportivo Desamparados
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Merengue
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I caught the last half hour of the 5th place game between Auckland City and TP Mazembe, which Auckland won 3-2 on a nice counter atatck goal 4 minutes into injury time. In fact this game had 3 of the 4 best goals I have seen in this tournament (TP Mazembe's long range goal against Pohang being the one good goal not from this game) The Congo club's 2 goals each were beauties, a long range shot and a wonderful buildup leading to a Mputu backheel to the overlapping left back. But TP Mazembe, playing with 10 men for nearly 70 minutes after their goalie was sent off for handling the ball outside the box, gave up that late goal, also a work of art and hit first time by substitute van Steeden.

Here is a more detailed description of what at leats for the 30 minutes I saw, was a highly entertaining game,

Auckland City vs TP Mazembe

On to the semifinal between Barcelona and Atlante. Come on Atlante! :D
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Yogi
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Sorry merengue your wish did not come true, Barcelona 3 Atlante 1. It began well for Atlante when a long kick from the goalie eluded Rafael Marquez and Dani Alves and Atlante's Rojas chipped it over the onrushing keeper and just before the ball went over the end line, he knocked it in with the outside of his foot a she was sliding. An excellent individual goal. But that woke Barcelona up and they dominated the rest of the match, finally tying it up late rin the first half when off a corner Yaya Toure headed it to Busquets who scored. In the 2nd half Messi came on and with his first touch, nicely set up by Ibrahimovic, he rounded the keeper and scored. The final goal came from Iniesta holding the ball up and somehow pushing it through a sea of legs to Pedro to score. Vilar the Atlante goalie made a couple of nice saves to keep the score down to 3 goals while Valdes did well stopping the other Rafael Marquez, the Atlante forward on a breakaway.

Comfortable win for Barcelona. I know Estudiantes were getting praise here yesterday but it will take a miraculous game by them combined with a poor one from Barcelona for them to defeat the Catalans in the final.
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Pique
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Geez Barcelona are enjoyable to watch. Atlante did have a dream start as Yogi wrote but after that Barca just made them chase the ball and it wa sjust a matter of time before they would score. But apart from their great skill what makes this Barcelona team so special is how much they pressure the ball when not in possession. Atlante are pretty good on the ball but Barcelona forced them into giving it away time after time with their pressure. Just shows that a good offensive team does not have to be weak defensively.
Esas son las leyendas de futbol mexicano,
En todo Mexico hay un Chiva hermano!
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autogol
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Pique,Dec 16 2009
10:49 AM
Geez Barcelona are enjoyable to watch. Atlante did have a dream start as Yogi wrote but after that Barca just made them chase the ball and it wa sjust a matter of time before they would score. But apart from their great skill what makes this Barcelona team so special is how much they pressure the ball when not in possession. Atlante are pretty good on the ball but Barcelona forced them into giving it away time after time with their pressure. Just shows that a good offensive team does not have to be weak defensively.

Well said Pique. Barcelona are more than just a team of silky passers, they really get after their opponents defensively. In fact I think that is the biggest difference between Guardiola's Barcelona and Rijkaard's.

Curiously ever since FIFA has started the World Club Cup whenever Brazilian clubs have represented South America-Corinthians, Sao Paulo and Internacional, they beaten the Europeans but when other countries' clubs have been South America's representatives, they have lost to the Europeans (Boca and Liga de Quito.) It will take an incredible defensive effort and some timely finishing if Estudiantes are to change that and take home the title on Saturday.
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Dr. Z
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The point about Barcelona's defensive pressure is a good one I think and soemthing which has been present with the team for sometime now. I do think Rijkaard's Barcelona pressed the opponents too but just not quite as effectively as Pep's Barca does. And while some wondered whether Ibrahimovic would provide the defensive pressure that Eto;o did, I think we have an answer tot hat- yes he can!

But Ibra's greatest contribution is his ability to hold the ball and combine with his teammates, something Eto'o was always less likely to do. Witness Ibrahimovic's great pass to Messi for the 2nd goal today.

I know he is not fully back from injury but as a Mexican I was concerned to see Rafael Marquez looking suspect defensively. Hopefully that is just a short term defect until he gets fully healthy. But with the way Puyol and Pique are playing, getting time on the field may not be easy.

If they are to have any success in the final Estudiantes will have to pass the ball better against Barcelona's pressure than Atlante did today.
Poniendo el pecho a las balas!
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rosarino
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Barcelona does do a good job of pressing the opposition when they have the ball but so does Estudiantes. And El Pincha love to play on the counter, using the speed and movement of Boselli and Perez and Veron's ability to hit pinpoint long passes. I expect Cristian Cellay, a tenacious defender will come into the team, I am just not sure where, as he can play as a centerback, fullback or in an emergency even as another defensive midfielder. Martin is right that with La Gata Fernandez leaving the team (he plays in Mexico now) they do miss something in attack from the team that won the Libertadores in June (next season when Jose Sosa is eligible they'll get that ability back but that is irrelevant for this discussion about the final) but organized, intelligent teams who take advantage of their goalscoring opportunities and are capable of short circuiting Barcelona's circulation of the ball can have success against teams like this. Rubin Kazan did it this year in the Champions League, Chelsea nearly did it last year in the semifinals of that competition and the United States did that to Spain in the Confederations Cup. But to do this not only do you have to shut down their passing routes but you need to finish the chances that you get in front of goal. Estudiantes will need many things to go their way against Barcelona to achieve this but they do I think have the type of club which can beat this powerful Barcelona. Saturday they get their chance to prove that. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Some bad news for Barcelona, Andres Iniesta injured a leg muscle against Atlante and will miss the fnal.

As others already noted, the amount of Estudiantes fans who made the trip to Abu Dhabi was extraordinary, they will make their presence felt on Saturday.
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calimocho
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Some very good comments going on here. Everybody knows Barcelona are the big favourite sin this match, there is no secret about that. But rosarino is right to point out that they can be beaten by a team who does to them what they often do to their opponents and that is press them in midfield. And let us not underestimate the loss of Iniesta, one of the world's 5 best players in my opinion. Estudiantes achieved their success when they have been the underappreciated team, many thought Cruzeiro would defeat them in the Libertadores final but as some have noted here, this Estudiantes team has oficio, I am not sure how to translate that into English, maybe someone can help me?, that is they are not afraid to work hard to achieve their goals.Veron will lead the team and Boselli is an underappreciated goalscorer. My doubts about this team are in goal. Damian Albil is just an average goalkeeper in my opinion, he is not at the same level of Mariano Andujar, now with Catania in Italy, who is an inetrnational and was the goalkeeper in the Libertadores. My doubts are there because in order to defeat this barcelona team I also feel estudiantes will need their goalkeeper to come up with a big performance.

Barcelona have so many ways to beat an opponent, great build up play, on a quick counter, in the air with Ibrahimovic or Pique, off of free kicks, or through a brillinat piece of individual skill by players like messi, Ibrahimovic, Xavi or the missing Iniesta. It is an incredible team going for an unprecedented 6th title in 2009, as it has previously won every competition it has competed in so far: Spanish league, and Cup, Champions League, Spanish Super Cup and European Super Cup. Now it goes for the World Club Cup and only Estudiantes battle tested team stands in it's way.
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Martin
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rosarino,Dec 16 2009
10:29 PM
Barcelona does do a good job of pressing the opposition when they have the ball but so does Estudiantes. And El Pincha love to play on the counter, using the speed and movement of Boselli and Perez and Veron's ability to hit pinpoint long passes. I expect Cristian Cellay, a tenacious defender will come into the team, I am just not sure where, as he can play as a centerback, fullback or in an emergency even as another defensive midfielder. Martin is right that with La Gata Fernandez leaving the team (he plays in Mexico now) they do miss something in attack from the team that won the Libertadores in June (next season when Jose Sosa is eligible they'll get that ability back but that is irrelevant for this discussion about the final) but organized, intelligent teams who take advantage of their goalscoring opportunities and are capable of short circuiting Barcelona's circulation of the ball can have success against teams like this. Rubin Kazan did it this year in the Champions League, Chelsea nearly did it last year in the semifinals of that competition and the United States did that to Spain in the Confederations Cup. But to do this not only do you have to shut down their passing routes but you need to finish the chances that you get in front of goal. Estudiantes will need many things to go their way against Barcelona to achieve this but they do I think have the type of club which can beat this powerful Barcelona. Saturday they get their chance to prove that. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Some bad news for Barcelona, Andres Iniesta injured a leg muscle against Atlante and will miss the fnal.

As others already noted, the amount of Estudiantes fans who made the trip to Abu Dhabi was extraordinary, they will make their presence felt on Saturday.

I agree that this is the blueprint to defeat Barcelona, you can't really open yourself up and go all out and attack them, even Real Madrid are unsuccessful at this. But rosarino is correct in pointing out that in addition to closing down their passing lanes, in order to defeat Barcelona you have to be efficient with the goalscoring opportunities you are presented with. Yesterday despite being outplayed, Atlante had some goalscoring chances besides the one which they did convert for that early goal. But they did not put those away and lost their opportunity to pull off an upset.

As calimocho says Estudiantes do have oficio, the Spanish word which in this context means, working hard, which gives them an opportunity to pull off an upset. I am also impressed whenever I have watched them play with the tactical ability of their coach Alejandro Sabella and look forward to him matching wits with another excellent strategist in Pep Guardiola. I do think this will be an intriguing game but for Estudiantes to succeed, they do have to have a lot of things go right for them and most importantly cannot be wasteful in front of goal.
Club Sportivo Desamparados
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Yogi
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I have really enjoyed the tactical analysis of how Estudiantes might play tomorrow against Barcelona. Here are some quotes from their press conference today where it seems clear they are going to try and keep in tight at the back,

Estudiantes Not Looking To Put On a Show

Estudiantes will play hard but fair and will not be looking to put on a show when they face Barcelona in the Club World Cup final, captain Juan Sebastian Veron and coach Alejandro Sabella said on Friday.

The South American Libertadores Cup holders meet European champions Barcelona at Zayed Sports City (1600 GMT) looking to lift their second world title while the Spanish favourites want to win it for the first time to crown a glittering year.

“We have always been the same, we have been treated as we are treated,” Veron told reporters.

“It’s the nature of the club, for some reason they called us animals in England.”

The team of 1968, in which Veron’s father Juan Ramon was the most skilled player, were accused of gamesmanship in the two-leg Intercontinental Cup victory over Manchester United when memories were fresh of the controversial 1966 World Cup quarter-final between England and Argentina at Wembley.

Sabella began his playing career at River Plate and won league title with Estudiantes in 1982 and 1983.

“One of the club’s commandments is to try by whatever means to enter the field with 11 players and leave with 11.

“That, for me, is fundamental and all the more so given the class of (tomorrow’s) rivals.”

Veron added: “Whoever wants to come and see a show, it’s better if they go to the theatre, what we want to do is try to win, we didn’t come here to put on a show.

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