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| Champions League 09/10 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 23 2009, 05:46 AM (4,889 Views) | |
| Simon | Apr 7 2010, 04:26 AM Post #316 |
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I'd wondered if Barcelona could score three or four goals on Arsenal last night, really because Arsenal were missing some key players and leaders and Barca are better able to cope with a few absences than Arsenal are - especially when one of those absences is not Lionel Messi! Also, it has to be said that Arsenal can be pretty naive in games like this and have been done in a similar manner by both United and Chelsea on their own ground in recent times. Their record in games against major teams is dreadful. I've not seen the game though I have spoken this morning to an Arsenal-supporting colleague. He says Arsenal had chances of their own that they didn't take, but has no complaints about going out. Fair enough really. Reading the posts on here from last week, I thought you were all pretty kind about United. Maybe it's the extra frustrations a fan experiences, but I thought United were truly abysmal against Bayern Munich, just about our worst performance all season. I simply couldn't get over how often we were giving the ball away, we hardly strung three passes together all night. The contagion even spread to players like Carrick and even Scholes. At 1-0 up I actually said "I'd take a 1-1 out of this" because we were playing that badly. At 1-1 I also recall seeing on the clock that there were about 20 seconds left, and we had the ball down their end. Not unreasonably, I thought 'thank god, let's take a totally undeserved 1-1 back to OT', little suspecting that there was still time for us to give the ball away, Rooney to badly damage his ankle and for us to allow Bayern a winner through some utterly comical defending. Fortunately I didn't see the United-Chelsea game, though I understand we were similarly crap in the first half before stepping our play up in the second. That defeat has affected my outlook a bit. We MUST win our remaining 5 league games and hope Chelsea slip up, which looks decidedly dodgy if we're not playing all that well. Going out tonight may therefore not be the worst thing in the world, and unfortunately I can picture Bayern scoring and us then having a devil of a time getting the three goals we'd need, what with the way we're playing and in the absence of Rooney. Of course, sometimes a cup run can give your whole season a nitro boost - what better way of going into the Blackburn game than with a resounding win over Bayern Munich in a great atmosphere at a packed Old Trafford? We'll have to wait to see what happens... |
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| shelsoccer | Apr 7 2010, 06:12 AM Post #317 |
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DiStefano, Eusebio, etc. I was thinking more in terms of Pele, Maradona and Cruyff as I watched Messi yesterday, even if he is only 22. In the next three months, he'll have the chance to perform on even bigger stages. If he plays anything like he did yesterday, I'm going to have to re-evaluate my own holy trinity of the sport's all-time greatest. |
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| Simon | Apr 7 2010, 09:59 AM Post #318 |
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Hmm, there've been rumours flying around all day about Rooney playing some part tonight, and now comes the shock news that he's been named in the starting XI. That has to be seen as a big gamble... |
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| ursus arctos | Apr 7 2010, 10:15 AM Post #319 |
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Especially for England, I would think. Do you think that Van Gaal will need to give Van Bommel a set of anatomical diagrams so as to ensure the inevitable challenge in the first five minutes has maximum effect, or is that the kind of "nous" that MVB carries around on his own? |
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| Winslow | Apr 7 2010, 12:55 PM Post #320 |
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Wednesday's second legs... . . . . . . Bordeaux 1, Lyon 0 (2-3 aggregate); Manchester United 3, Bayern Munich 2 (4-4 aggregate; Bayern advances on away goals). Hoo boy--Man U leads 2-0 after 7 minutes and 3-0 near halftime and still gets knocked out. Rooney did start, played an hour, and set up the first goal by redirecting a long ball into Gibson's path; he smacked it past a befuddled (or screened) Butt to open the scoring in the third minute. A short time later, Valencia (an inspiration all night) fiddled with the ball in the right corner before skimming a cross that an unmarked Nani ran onto at the top of the goal box; he very neatly flicked it with his right boot so it ran behind him and into the far corner. Nani would score again after 40 minutes, as another Valencia cross found him at the top of the box for a brilliant top-corner finish, but Bayern pulled one back before halftime as Olic outfought a defender (possibly handling the ball) to collect a header and score on van der Sar from an acute angle. This left the game on a knife edge, and it got harder when Rafael, who'd been booked in the first half, grabbed an advancing Ribery from behind and was sent off. Both teams had chances over the next half-hour (van der Sar made two great saves and had a header skim the top of his bar, while Nani missed two great opportunities for a hat trick, one handed to him by Butt's terrible clearance), but finally with 12 minutes left a long, looping Bayern corner found Robben at the top of the box. His thundering volley found its way just inside the far post. After that, Bayern managed to kill off the match without giving Man U much of a chance. So who's gonna stop Barcelona now? PS. Still waiting for details from Bordeaux... |
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| Simon | Apr 7 2010, 01:37 PM Post #321 |
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Barcelona are still evens to win the CL, which IMO (with all due respect to the teams left in it) is like printing money. They should bring home the bacon from here. I thought we'd probably go out tonight, most likely with Bayern scoring early and then us battling to a 1-1 draw or suchlike. The way we eventually went out is far more dignified and is actually quite a boost to us at a difficult time. It was a huge bonus to see Rooney start, and he did play really well but Bayern did, as ursus said, have a few swipes at his ankle (step forward Van Bommel and especially Van Buyten) and he was a limping passenger long before he came off. By the way, doesn't it say a lot for Berbatov that the hobbling Rooney was preferred for so long and Berbs only came on for the last 10 minutes? :rolleyes: While we had 11 men and certainly while Rooney was fit, we played some exceptional football and were good value for our 3-0 lead. I thought we could go on and get a couple more, and I still thought that even after Olic's goal. But the sending off changed everything. I didn't like the ease with which Bayern's players went to ground all night, and I intensely dislike Ribery, but it must be said that Bayern gave a great display of what to do against 10 men. They stood their fullbacks wide on the touchlines, made the pitch as big as they could and stretched and tired United. Their goal was inevitable really, though it was a top strike from Robben. I don't want to blame Rafael too much as he was arguably our player of the first half, galloping forward and never giving Ribery a touch of the ball. He needs to learn the discipline required in these games though. Oh well, I accept we can't get to the final every year. The league's the most important prize, and while our chances of winning it look a bit slim after Saturday, we still have to give it everything we've got. Especially as I think we're very much coming off the crest of a wave. The f*****g Glazers are biting us hard and our overall squad is starting to suffer, which will clearly be accelerated when Neville, Giggs, Scholes and VDS go and we have to buy their replacements from Poundstretchers rather than Harrods Hopefully Rooney will be fit for Blackburn. It was a gamble tonight, but a gamble worth taking, for United anyway. I'm really not arsed about England. |
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| robdog | Apr 7 2010, 02:46 PM Post #322 |
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Surely you are joking. Man U have a decent schedule ahead of them. Chelsea still have to worry about FA Cup glory & trips to Anfield & White Heart Lane. A lot of land mines before the trophy is handed out. Also Le Arse can still do good as well. The EPL is hardly decided w/ that match from last sat. Keep your head up man!!! |
| Supporter for FCK, San Lorenzo, Chelsea, Pachuca, Corinthians & Real Betis | |
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| Simon | Apr 7 2010, 03:51 PM Post #323 |
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Ha, well I reckon we've a decent chance, though Chelsea are in the driving seat. I don't reckon you'll win the rest of your games, but then I don't reckon we will either. Blackburn haven't lost at Ewood Park since before Christmas, that's going to be a proper tough local derby for us. If we can't go back top while you're busy in the cup, we'll be in all kinds of trouble. Anyway, that's a conversation for the EPL thread I suppose
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| Yogi | Apr 7 2010, 05:56 PM Post #324 |
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What a goal from Robben, his battle with Evra was an excellent one, two of the best players in the world at their respective positions going at one another. Evra did well against him for the most part but Robben was I think still Bayern's most dangerous player, forcing van der Sar into a great one handed save before winning the series with that great volley. Against both Fiorentina and Manchester United, Bayern won thanks to 2nd half goals from Robben. I know he was battling an injury himself but still looked pretty fresh when he came off, I was wondeirng if van Gaal made a mistake in taking him off but as Simon noted Bayern really did a good job of exploiting the extra man and made United chase them once it became 3-2 on the night and 4-4 on aggregate. Like ursus as soon as I saw Rooney on the field my first thought was how long before van Bommel goes after his ankle, surprising I didn't see that, although van Buyten did go after Rooney's ankle early on. After a poor first half I thought van Bommel and Schweinsteiger each did very well in midfield as United missed a central midfielder who I thought could take control of the game and as everybody else noted once Rooney left and they went down a man they really struggled offensively. Lyon's goalkeeper Lloris was their hero making a diving save in the 2nd half of a Wendel header that looked like it was going in. Lloris has shown against both Real Madrid and now Bordeaux why he has become France's starting keeper. Without Lisandro Lopez I thought Lyon's attack was limited tonight but Bordeaux had difficulty making their way through Lyon's well marshalled defense and when they did there was Llloris to beat too and that Bordeaux could only do once on a first half opportunistic goal by Chamakh. So we have a diverse set of semifinalists now, one representative from four separate nations, 3 past winners including the holders and favorites Barcelona and a first time semifinalsit in Lyon. |
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| Sergio | Apr 7 2010, 06:46 PM Post #325 |
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Tuesday was dominated by Lionel Messi's spectacular show. Amazing to think he is only 22, wasn't Maradona at that age just coming to Barcelona to start his European adventure? Wednesday's games were much more dramatic, I thought Bayern were starting to take over the game even before the red card but once that happened and Rooney left, Manchester United were pretty much a spent force, I only recall Nani's angled shot on a quick counter as their sole dangerous shot in the 2nd half. Bayern, on the othe rhand were really putting their opponents under fire and it did seem like only a question of time ebfore they scored a 2nd goal. The late goal by Olic just before the end of the first half is what I thought turned the game around. Funny how he made that difficult angled goal after a few minutes earlier blowing a great chance when he miscontrolled a pass which ahd set him free against the goalie! |
| "You left as a champion, you will always be in our hearts. Rest in Peace Christian Benítez." | |
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| robdog | Apr 7 2010, 07:18 PM Post #326 |
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Well to make the EPL race part of the conversation, I don't think losing in UCL is bad for Man U or Le Arse. Personally, I was hoping both sides would remain, as the UCL presented a couple more obstacle for both sides. Now both Le Arse & Man U have one competition remaining. Chelsea has two. Sorry Europe, you will have to have other teams than the English sides in the finals
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| Supporter for FCK, San Lorenzo, Chelsea, Pachuca, Corinthians & Real Betis | |
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| rosarino | Apr 7 2010, 08:40 PM Post #327 |
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It is scary to say this but even Maradona had not accomplished as much as Messi has at 22. Diego did say it is still too early to compare Messi with other greats of the game but he did say we may finally be able to stop the endless Pele v Maradona debate with Messi's emergence. High praise from the master himself. I am happy for Lyon, after so many years banging on the door they have finally entered the semifinals, first time they have ever accomplished that and I heard they are the first French club to reach the semis since Monaco who eventually were beaten finalists in 2004. That year was also the last time until this season where the four semifinalsists came from four different nations. |
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| Gunners | Apr 8 2010, 05:39 AM Post #328 |
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Let's not forget that just 12 years ago, we were saying the same thing about Ronaldo. As great as Messi is at 22, Ronaldo was even better IMHO. Unfortunately, injuries, age, and the various "pleasures of life" have a way of derailing the challengers to Pele and Maradona. Let's hope Messi can continue to fulfill his potential. |
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| Merengue | Apr 8 2010, 06:04 AM Post #329 |
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Very true and nobody can prognosticate injuries. But I do think players are better protected now than they were in the age of Maradona or van Basten when butchers like Andoni Goicochea or Claudio Gentile were given free reign to kick the crap out of attacking players. As for avoiding the "pleasures of life" as Gunners humourously has put it, Messi does seem a pretty humble and grounded guy and I also think Barcelona have learned their lesson from their time with Maradona, Romario, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho and have kept Messi pretty cloistered away from potential off field trouble. Back to yesterday's games, Alex Ferguson really gambled with Rooney and it looked like a gamble that would pay off as not only was Rooney very active and participatory in the opening half hour but I think his mere presence on the field lifted his teammates but when he reinjured his ankle he became a spectator on the field and once withdrawn from the game the life seemed to have been sucked out of Manchester United. And there was the other player returning from injury, Arjen Robben to win the series with a first class finish. Lyon lost Benzema and Juninho, aruably their two best players last season, yet now they have finally breached that wall which had blocked them for so many years and have finally qualified for the semifinals of the Champons League. And with Hugo Lloris in such great form and the return of the dangerous Lisandro Lopez, this can be a difficult team to beat. |
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| Johnbuildr | Apr 8 2010, 06:27 AM Post #330 |
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I am amazed at Rooney's miraculous recovery, having seen him being helped off with two people because he could not (apparently) put any weight whatsoever on that right foot a mere week ago. Nothing wrong with being overly cautious with an injury of course, and we never know for sure until later the true extent anyway, but that particular scene was extremely misleading. Must be steroids!!! (just kidding)
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Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum | |
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