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Champions League 09/10
Topic Started: Jul 23 2009, 05:46 AM (4,899 Views)
Manzanares
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Mr. Pither,Dec 9 2009
09:27 AM
I felt badly for APOEL Nicosia missing out on the Europa League, any team which can go to Stamford Bridge, even against a weakened and already qualified Chelsea, and obtain a result there is a pretty decent side.  APOEL finished with a better goal differential than Atletico Madrid when tied on points with them but as explained here lost out on the head to head results versus Atletico.  Too bad as APOEL right now looks the more deserving club.


I can't argue with this. Atletico were just horrible against Porto and really do not deserve to still be playing in Europa even if it is "dropping down" to the Europa League. With the team needing to improve it's league form and climb up the table, maybe playing in Europe will eb an unwanted distraction in the 2nd half of the season?

Lionel Messi took a beating from Dynamo Kyiv's players kicking his ankles. With Barca 2-0 up and his star taking such a beating I was a little surprised Guardiola did not take Messi out. He did take Iniesta who also was getting kicked around out but now Messi has an injury and will miss the derby against Espanyol (not that he's really needed to defeat Espanyol but you also do not wnat your star getting hurt no matter the circumstances.)

Curiously the 3 nations with 4 Champions League participants to start-Spain, England and Italy, each lost a team in the group stage but those 3 nations still will make up 9 of the 16 teams advancing. 2 each also from France and Germany, with 1 club remaining from Russia, Greece and Portugal. Wednesday was not a good day for eastern Europe's clubs, 3 had the opportunity to join CSKA Moscow but none made it to the 2nd round.
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Simon
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Yeah robdog, would have taken a hell of a team to get through with that ref!

I'm still scratching my head about how United managed to pull out a win with that kind of team. 15 players injured, including 8 defenders. A back four made up of three midfielders. That performance and result may slip under the radar a bit in the wider scheme of things, what with us already being through and attention primarily elsewhere, but I reckon it'll be a mini-classic in United annals. Every man stepped his game up, Scholes and Evra were especially great, Fletcher and Carrick held their heads above water at centre-back, and of course there was Owen's hat-trick! I'm sure he saw the joke when we were all chanting 'you scouse b*stard' at him after his third!

The general trip was great as well, euro aways in Germany are always top. Didn't really bother with Wolfsburg as there's nowt there but a VW factory and a football stadium, so split out time between Hamburg and Hannover. As such, we didn't really see many Wolfsburg fans apart from obviously at the game itself. I was also expecting the trip to be more expensive than it was, especially with the bad exchange rate with the Euro at present, but we found some really good deals/places. We had help from one lad who'd been around there during the 06 World Cup (not that United fans are meant to admit supporting England, but he swore he was just there for the atmosphere and not England!) and knew where to go. One great bar we were in all afternoon, and about eight of us probably had about 70 beers between us and I'm sure the eventual bill was about 50 Euros! here was some lethal Christmas stuff as well, kind of like mulled wine with a tot of rum in it! Hamburg's Reeperbahn seemed to be where most of the night life was there as well. It's also the red light district and there were some eye-opening scenes around there late at night. I'm afraid to report that when we were propositioned at the end of the night, we disgraced the reputation of travelling football fans everywhere...by politely declining and returning to the hotel :D

It was a good do all round, here's hoping we get Stuttgart or Bayern in the next round!


On the other games, as Manzanares says it was eventually only the one eastern club that made it through, and even that after a bit of a scare over two of their players failing a drugs test after the 3-3 at OT, and the chance that Wolfsburg could be reinstated anyway. I understand that UEFA have ruled that CSKA will advance after all.

Yogi, I was also reminded of Schmeichel's header against Rotor Volgograd when I saw Bolat's effort the other night. The great thing about that was that it was his goal that qualified Standard Liege for the Europa League - brilliant story!
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robdog
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Simon,Dec 10 2009
11:28 AM
I'm still scratching my head about how United managed to pull out a win with that kind of team. 15 players injured, including 8 defenders. A back four made up of three midfielders. That performance and result may slip under the radar a bit in the wider scheme of things, what with us already being through and attention primarily elsewhere, but I reckon it'll be a mini-classic in United annals.


Just goes to show the depth @ Man United. Older Players that are not expected to step up do. Relive their past glories.

Simon,Dec 10 2009
11:28 AM
here was some lethal Christmas stuff as well, kind of like mulled wine with a tot of rum in it!


It's a Xmas tradition in Germany. It's called Glühwein. You find it at the Weihnacht markts that are littered around Germany mostly. I am glad you had an awesome time in Deutschland.

Simon,Dec 10 2009
11:28 AM
Hamburg's Reeperbahn seemed to be where most of the night life was there as well. It's also the red light district and there were some eye-opening scenes around there late at night. I'm afraid to report that when we were propositioned at the end of the night


Yeah that is the St. Pauli District. The Germans are very proud of that. So now when you crack open that bottle of St. Pauli Girl, you know what she truly is :P

p.s. my wife wants you to know there is more than the Reeperbahn in the St. Pauli District :rolleyes:
Supporter for FCK, San Lorenzo, Chelsea, Pachuca, Corinthians & Real Betis
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Simon
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robdog,Dec 10 2009
11:38 AM
Simon,Dec 10 2009
11:28 AM
here was some lethal Christmas stuff as well, kind of like mulled wine with a tot of rum in it!


It's a Xmas tradition in Germany. It's called Glühwein. You find it at the Weihnacht markts that are littered around Germany mostly. I am glad you had an awesome time in Deutschland.

Simon,Dec 10 2009
11:28 AM
Hamburg's Reeperbahn seemed to be where most of the night life was there as well. It's also the red light district and there were some eye-opening scenes around there late at night. I'm afraid to report that when we were propositioned at the end of the night


Yeah that is the St. Pauli District. The Germans are very proud of that. So now when you crack open that bottle of St. Pauli Girl, you know what she truly is :P

p.s. my wife wants you to know there is more than the Reeperbahn in the St. Pauli District :rolleyes:

Ah yeah, I'm already well acquainted with Gluhwein. We have a huge German Christmas market right here in Manchester every year. Looking forward to my shot of erdbeerwein at the weekend, not to mention the chocolate-coated fruit on a skewer, which I presume is another German speciality?

Reassure your wife that I'm quite certain there's more to St. Pauli than the Reeperbahn, I know of the football club for a start! And I think that's where the Beatles lived? I suppose going there with a bunch of drunken football fans isn't the best way to appreciate all its cultural subtleties!
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raconteur
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The group winners are:

Barcelona
Arsenal
Chelsea
Fiorentina
Girondins Bordeaux
Manchester United
Real Madrid
Sevilla

And the runnersup:
AC Milan
Bayern Munich
CSKA Moscow
Inter Milan
Olympiakos Piraeus
Olympique Lyon
Porto
VfB Stuttgart

The two Milan clubs and Bayern Munich are going to be the clubs most group winners will want to avoid.


The draw won't be until next week. I have to agree about the 2nd place clubs the group winners would prefer to avoid. From the 2nd place teams perspective, I am thinking they will hope to be paired against Fiorentina, Bordeaux or Sevilla. Of course Milan cannot get either Fiorentina (a fellow Italian club) or Real Madrid (from the same group), so that leaves a strong possibility Milan will be paired against a difficult team in the next round. But so much can change in terms of all of these clubs form between now and when the Champions League resumes in 2 months time.

Apparently CSKA Moscow won't be suspended because the two players involved took Sudafed and while the club's doctors forgot to disclose that to the drug testers, Sudafed itself is permissible so long as it is disclosed. The failure to inform them of the players treatment was considered minor.
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Yogi
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Jens Lehmann's "Break"

Stuttgart goalkeeper Jens Lehmann has remained tight-lipped over the much-publicised moment in which he appeared to take a comfort break during his side’s midweek Champions League encounter against Unirea Urziceni.

Late in the game the eccentric German goalkeeper hopped over the advertising hoardings and adopted a crouched position. Reports suggested that he had enjoyed a quick toilet break, but the former Arsenal custodian has refused to confirm such allegations.

When questioned over the incident by Bild, the veteran replied: “That’s my secret. It’s nice that in football some things can’t be solved by cameras!”

Probed further as to what else he could possibly have been doing, the goalkeeper smiled mischievously. “There are other things. Use your imagination.”

VfB manager Horst Heldt is quoted as having said, “Jens solved [his problem] very skilfully. It reminded me of the Tour de France, when riders have to stop to go for a pee.”

Franz Beckenbauer also commented on the incident, telling Sat 1, “Lehmann looked very relieved afterwards!”

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Winslow
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The second-round draw was held this morning. Interesting.

Bayern Munich-Fiorentina
CSKA Moscow-Sevilla
Inter Milan-Chelsea
Lyon-Real Madrid
AC Milan-Manchester United
Olympiakos-Bordeaux
FC Porto-Arsenal
Stuttgart-Barcelona

So Mr. Beckham can go home again, and so can Jose Mourinho (sort of).
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Merengue
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Another year of English-Italian battles. Beckham and Mourinho going back to play their old clubs are making the headlines but you have to think the two Italian clubs cannot be happy with those draws.

Karim Benzema also gets to go home as he and his Real Madrid teammates play Lyon. Madrid does not have a particularly good record against Lyon over the years so this will not be an easy draw for them but those Lyon teams had Juninho who no longer is with the French club.

Sevilla can not complain much about getting CSKA Moscow but won't look too forward to a February trip to Moscow. Bordeaux got a pretty good draw with Olympiacos while Porto-Arsenal could turn out to be one of the best matchups in this round. To me that looks like a very even series with both teams possessing plenty of skilled passers. And finally there is Barcelona who got the lucky pairing of Stuttgart, a team hovering just above the relegation zone in Germany. I do not think Barcelona could have asked for a beter draw. Just tell them to have a port-a-potty near the field in case Jens Lehmann gets any more urges to go! :P
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Mr. Pither
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Another year, another early exit for Inter. Terrible draw for them. While Mourinho's return is the big news the bottom line is neither Chelsea nor Inter will be happy about such a difficult matchup at this stage, especially looking at what else was possible for either club. But for we fans, games like this, Milan-Manchester United, Porto-Arsenal and Lyon-Real Madrid are why we love this competition so much. Should give us all something to look forward to during the cold of winter.
P-I-T-H-E-R ...as in Brotherhood, but with PI instead of the BRO and no HOOD
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Yogi
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Winslow,Dec 18 2009
04:10 AM
The second-round draw was held this morning. Interesting.

Bayern Munich-Fiorentina
CSKA Moscow-Sevilla
Inter Milan-Chelsea
Lyon-Real Madrid
AC Milan-Manchester United
Olympiakos-Bordeaux
FC Porto-Arsenal
Stuttgart-Barcelona

So Mr. Beckham can go home again, and so can Jose Mourinho (sort of).

I guess it could have been worse for Milan they could have been paired with Chelsea or Barcelona (Madrid and Fiorentina were the only group winners Milan could not have been paired with) but obviously playing Manchester United will not be easy. Milan did eliminate Manchester in 2007 semiifnals on the way to winning their last Champions League but this will be an extremely difficult match and as we saw last season recently Italian clubs have not done too well in England. On the bright side is the fact that without Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United to me are not as fearsome a team. Still a very good one but I have not seen anything in them so far this season which make sme think they are as tough as they have been in recent seasons.

Intriguing series between Chelsea and Inter. Those should be some very tight, tactical battles. With Milito, Eto'o and Sneijder I do think Inter have more offensive variations than they previously had but Chelsea are such a fine team in two leg matches. They just have that ability to wear you down and Drogba and Anelka give them the ability to score on most anyone.

Nobody has yet mentioend Fiorentina-Bayern Munich but that looks like a tough matchup too. Not a good draw for the Viola as Bayern are coming into form now after a slow start and they still have not yet gotten Ribery and Robben fully fit. By February they both should be ready to go. I don't think many teams will look forward to meeting Bayern in this competition.

Bordeaux and Sevilla are two pretty good clubs which have not been traditional Champions League participants. Each got pretty good pairings which can enable them to reach the quarterfinals. To me if there is to be a new club upsetting the cart in all of this Bordeaux and Sevilla remain the best hopes for doing that.
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raconteur
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Of the group winners I would think Barcelona, Sevilla and Bordeaux are the most happy with whom they have been drawn with. Each are paired with clubs they should beat. Followed by Real Madrid and Bayern who while not getting easy opponents have teams which they should defeat over two legs. Then you have what I think can be a very even matchup between Arsenal and Porto, if van Persie was healthy I would have rated Arsenal favorites, without him that is an even series in my view.

That leaves what I think are the two most fascinating pairings of this round, Milan-Manchester United and Inter-Chelsea. I agree with Yogi's assertion that Manchester United while still very strong does not look as strong as they've been in recent seasons. It is not just lacking Ronaldo, but their once impenetrable defense has been plagued by injuries. Perhaps that will change by the end of February when this series starts but Milan, while coming in as underdogs, can I think defeat Manchester United if Thiago Silva and Nesta are healthy and Ronaldinho plays well. But again much depends on how each club is doing by the time February rolls around.

Until the past few weeks, Chelsea were looking invincible, but they are currently in a slump. Better to get that out of the way now rather than still be in a downward trend in February. Inter does, as Yogi noted, have more offensive options than before but I think Chelsea matches up with them very well and Chelsea have confidence something Inter I feel lack in European games.

One thing for certain, as somebody else already commented, these are the type of games which make the Champions League so much fun.
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Don Balon
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I agree with much of what raconteur has written about which clubs got favourable pairings, which have ones which while not favourable are still very winnable and which are the even series. But all of that is absed on their current form. I want to revisit this discussion in early to mid February to see how these clubs are playing then. It is very possible our views on these matchups will have changed by then based on their form.
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Mr. Pither
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After a two month break it is back to the Champions League and the round of 16 fixtures have been split up over two weeks to maximise TV viewership. The programme this week is:

Tuesday
Lyon-Real Madrid
Milan-Manchester United

Wednesday
Porto-Arsenal
Bayern-Fiorentina

Next week the remaining first leg games will be played, then there will be a week off for national team matches followed by the 2nd legs of this week's matches and so on. If nothing else we will get four out of the next five weeks full of Champions League football.

So what kind of form are the teams in now compared to how they ended the group stage of the competition? In my mind i would say the following + is they've improved, - is decreased and 0 is stayed roughly the same.

Lyon 0
Real Madrid +
Milan 0
Manchester United +
Bayern +
Fiorentina -
Porto 0
Arsenal 0
CSKA Moscow 0 (they're in their close season)
Sevilla -
Inter 0
Chelsea +
Olympiakos 0
Bordeaux -
Stuttgart 0
Barcelona -

My money would be on the teams with pluses, those whose play has improved from 2 months ago.
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Nkono
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Lyon have a good recent history against Real Madrid but those were in my opinion better Lyon teams than the current one while Real Madrid are a better side than the one Lyon used to routinely defeat. Benzema has recovered and is fit to play against his old club of Lyon, as is another Madrid player, Mahamadou Diarra. I think to have any success, Lyon needs to exploit their speed on counters.

That is where Manchester United should have an advanatge over Milan too. Milan will have to be at their best to contain Rooney and the resurgent nani. I expect United to closely mark Ronaldinho because if they give him some time, he will pick them apart especially now that the speedy Pato is back to get on the end of his diagonal passes.

Tuesday night's calendar of games each look intriguing, as discussed when the draw was made, the type of matchups which the Champions League was meant to provide.
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Merengue
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Lyon have had Real Madrid's number over the years but they have their share of injuries in defense and may be forced to play defensive midfielder Jeremy Toulalan as a centerback. That is not ideal going against Madrid's attack. This is the stage where Madrid have gone out of the last 5 Champions Leagus, if this team is to recover it's international prestige it first must get past these octave finals.

If I am Manchester United, I press Milan in midfield and look to exploit their speed advantage on the break.
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