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2012 Olympics--Soccer/Football/Futbol
Topic Started: May 29 2009, 07:20 AM (2,815 Views)
Yogi
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Bad luck for Mexico as Giovani Dos Santos' leg injury won't heal in time and he will miss the Olympic Final.
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Sergio
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Yogi,Aug 9 2012
02:00 PM
Bad luck for Mexico as Giovani Dos Santos' leg injury won't heal in time and he will miss the Olympic Final.

Yes it is bad luck for Giovani but Mexico played pretty well in the 2nd half of the semifinal vs Japan without him. Fabian moves to his natural position and Ponce goes to left side of midfield. Mexico should be fine offensively. Looking forward to the final, it likely will be a hard fought game but a big advantage Mexico has will be in goal. Jesus Corona is the senior team's starting goalie and was brought in as an overage player to help provide stability to the defense. He has done that too and come up with some big saves when needed. Brazil on the other hand are now using Gabriel who started the Olympic prep period as their 3rd choice in goal.
"You left as a champion, you will always be in our hearts. Rest in Peace Christian Benítez."
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Merengue
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I absolutely agree with you Sergio, tough luck for Giovani but moving Marco Fabian to his natural position behind the striker (Peralta) won't hurt Mexico at all. In fact adding Ponce to the left wing will both help defensively as Ponce is a natural defender and also give the team more width down the left flank than if Fabian was playing there as his tendency is to cut inside.

I did find it intriguing that in the semi, Brasil dropped Hulk and added Alex Sandro who played left back and Marcelo moved into midfield. Marcelo was playing practically as an attacker anyhow and Hulk actually has not been at his best as Mano Menezes is going for a more balanced midfield. I would expect him to do the same in the final. With Neymar, Damiao, and Oscar, Brasil have so many ways to hurt you offensively even without Hulk in the lineup. Mexico have defended pretty well in these games but this will be their biggest test yet. I wonder how Mier and Reyes, each impressive so far in central defense will hold up against the Brasilian attack?

Sergio also makes a valid point about Corona and his so far stellar play in goal. He is a big advantage for Mexico but to be fair, Gabriel, since replacing Neto in Brasil's lineup, has looked Ok in goal for Brasil. It was Neto who looked shaky earlier in the tournament.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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Don't forget the men's final live on Saturday, 15:00 hrs London, 10:00 am ET.

I think Mexico can pull off the upset, they won't be afraid of Brazil and have been playing together for some time now so they are almost like a club team. Brazil have a wonderful attack but i feel mexico can take advantage of their defense.
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libero
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It is certainly possible Mexico could win and I do agree they won't be afraid of Brazil but this Brazilian team just has so many offensive variations that they will be extremely difficult to control. I think Brazil pulls out a win in what will be a close, but entertaining final. 3-2 is my prediction.
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shelsoccer
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Congrats to Mexico. As a US fan, I'm seriously worried. If the recent generation of young Mexican players continue to develop, the US will be taking a back seat.
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Merlin
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Congrats to Mexico.

I was unable to watch the final (moving kids back to school) and would love to read some comments about the game.
Equinus Halitosis and Hoop MLS Cups: 0
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alabastergremlin
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shelsoccer,Aug 11 2012
10:13 AM
Congrats to Mexico. As a US fan, I'm seriously worried. If the recent generation of young Mexican players continue to develop, the US will be taking a back seat.

I agree 100%.

I was discussing this very thing with a former high school teammate of mine (ironically the first Mexican-American to play at our high school and frankly one of the first Mexican-American's I had any kind of a friendship with) during the game.

I think the current Mexican team and the younger generation behind it are a clear result of the surge forward from the US in the very late 90's and the following 8-10 years (the peak probably being the WC02 quarterfinal victory).

It seems to me that Mexico has made HUGE strides in a relatively short period of time. Perhaps the US performance had nothing to do with and it was just a case of timing. But even now there seems to a gap between where we are and where "they" are and the fact that our U-23 failed to even make the tournament and their team won it (are these the same guys who won the U-17 WC a few years back? Or am I mixing up teams?) might be a sign of things to come. A bad sign if you are a US fan.

That being said, and I might be reaching again, but perhaps the canning of Bradley and the hiring and turning over of control to Klinsmann was a sign that US soccer saw this developing and made an effort to be proactive.

My friend and I agreed...the next few years could very interesting...kicking off Wednesday night!
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Merengue
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Congratulations to our Mexican fans here on Mexico's Olympic triumph. A deserved win as they caught Brasil with that early goal, what was it after 26 seconds? Mexico attacked and defended very well collectively while Brasil to me looked to be trying to do too much individually. Peralta with a fine 2nd goal (he also scored the opener) but it probably became a little closer than it should have been at the end with first Hulk scoring then Oscar heading over when left open. But a late tie would have been extremely cruel to Mexico who played a wonderful final and really where strong throughout the tournament. After a litle bit of a slow start vs Korea, they just kept getting better game by game.

Mexico have placed a lot of emphasis on youth development both at the club and national team level. This team has been together for some time, many of these players competed in Copa America (where minus some key players from this Olympic squad they did not do well) and the Pan American Games (which they won) last summer, then a base of this squad also played, and won, the Toulon youth tournament in France earlier this summer. Then of course there was the CONCACAF Olympic qualifying tourney where Mexico waltzed through the competition.

I'll be curious to read what some other posters have to say, I am not so sure it was the rise of the US in the past 15-20 years, as much as it was Mexico just looking to raise their overall profile internationally, look at their participations in the Copa America at the national team level and the Copa Libertadores at the club level, both of which have really helped Mexican players and clubs develop, and Mexico's obsession with reaching "the 5th game" i.e. the quarterfinals, at a World Cup held outside Mexico. As part of the plan to reach those goals, many clubs have improved their youth training and development and now we are seeing the fruits of those labors. Mexico won the U17 World Cup in 2005 and 2011, were 3rd in the last U20 World Cup and now just won the Olympics, aka the U23 World Cup!

As for Brasil, more Olympic frustration. This team, despite their status as favorites, never really got going. Yes, until the final they attacked pretty well but they also were prone to defensive mistakes and they repeated those again in the final. The Brasilians take this very seriously as for them, this Olympic team, with some additions, is their World Cup 2014 team in training. The team's overall spotted play in London will not go down well with the Brasilian public or sporting authorities, my guess is Mano Menezes, a successful club coach but a guy who has not yet really stood out at the national team level, will likely pay for this Olympic failure with his job.
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Yogi
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Good points by all, Mexico were deserving winners, Brazil just made too many mistakes at the back. Did you see Juan and Rafael go chest to chest in an onfield argument after Rafael foolishly lost a ball inside his own half? That summed up Brazil in these Olympics, too much individualism and a lack of collective spirit. But Juan was rightIi thought in getting upset with Rafael.

Anyway back to Mexico, they are doing wonders with their youth teams and now have what they previously lacked, confidence when playing the world's giants. The future looks very good for Mexico.

gremlin asked about Mexico's U17 World Cup team and whether that formed the basis of this Olympic team. Looks from this list of the 2005 U17 World Cup champions that it did not. Only Giovani Dos Santos was on that U17 team and this Olympic championship winning team (although Carlos Vela could also have made it if he did not opt out of the Olympics.)

What I most like about this and all current Mexican teams is they play an attractive style of play. Combining Spain's passing game with a little more dynamism and wing play. Mexico are doing it right combining attractive play with good youth development.
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shelsoccer
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I'd like to think that the US surge in the '90s played some role in Mexico ramping up its development. However, Merengue is right to point out the many other steps they've taken. I'd also point to the number of Mexicans now playing in Europe, something that was a rarity a decade ago.
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Dr. Z
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It has been a great weekend and watching Mexico win the Olympic futbol tournament has been a real joy for me and all fans of Mexico. Mexico did prepare for this tournament for several years and that effort has paid off. In addition to the youth development, this team also received great contributions from the 3 over age players, goalie Jeses Corona who provided stability for the backline and made key saves when needed, defensive midfielder Carlos Salcido who supplied a calming influence in midfield in addition to both great ball winning attributes and distribution and striker Oribe Peralta who after a slow start became Mexico's chief source of goals in the tournament's final few games.

I was initially sceptical of Luis Fernando Tena's coaching but he deserves plenty of praise for making Mexico into a well organized and efficient team on both ends of the field. He was superb and likely made himself a future national team coaching candidate. For now, Tena, a veteran club coach, will return to becoming Jose Manuel De La Torre's assistant with the senior national team.

Merengue wrote,
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I'll be curious to read what some other posters have to say, I am not so sure it was the rise of the US in the past 15-20 years, as much as it was Mexico just looking to raise their overall profile internationally, look at their participations in the Copa America at the national team level and the Copa Libertadores at the club level, both of which have really helped Mexican players and clubs develop, and Mexico's obsession with reaching "the 5th game" i.e. the quarterfinals, at a World Cup held outside Mexico. As part of the plan to reach those goals, many clubs have improved their youth training and development and now we are seeing the fruits of those labors. Mexico won the U17 World Cup in 2005 and 2011, were 3rd in the last U20 World Cup and now just won the Olympics, aka the U23 World Cup!


I think it was a combination of all the factors Merengue mentioned plus what shelsoccer also noted as the US' improvement was I think a wake up call for Mexico and is what helped spur the federation and the clubs to all seek to improve youth development. And now we see the results as Mexico is translating youth success into achievements higher up the development chain.

The U17 team in 2005 was the start of it and although Dos Santos and Vela are the only ones from that group who were age eligible for the Olympics, it is that group, including players like Hector Moreno and Chicharito Hernandez (a late cut from the 2005 U17 team but who played with that group in the 2007 U20 tourney where they barely lost to eventual champions Argentina in a quarterfinal game) who are leading Mexico to new dimensons. Mexico have had talented teams in the past but those teams did I think suffer a mental blockage when playing in the knockout stages of the World Cup. This younger generation does not have that fear and that is how we see Mexico achieving ever greater success as they now play Brazil, Argentina, Italy, etc. without fear. This mentality is perhaps the greatest achievement of this bunch of players and is why I think more good things are to come from them.
Poniendo el pecho a las balas!
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Johnbuildr
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shelsoccer,Aug 12 2012
09:35 PM
I'd like to think that the US surge in the '90s played some role in Mexico ramping up its development.  However, Merengue is right to point out the many other steps they've taken.  I'd also point to the number of Mexicans now playing in Europe, something that was a rarity a decade ago.

For sure.

C'mon, folks, when your main rival in the region starts beating, not just occasionally winnning, but almost dominating you, at YOUR OWN game like the US did in that 6 to 8 year period previously mentioned, of which we are all so well aware, to say it did not go over well with the fans, the players, or the hierarchy of Mexican futbol is a huge understatement.

Now, I am not saying El Tri has American soccer to thank for their recent success (lol) but any student of human nature and follower of these two rivals has got to agree that the US elevating their game to the level that it did during that period had a huge effect on Mexican drive and determination to excel and gain back their historical place at the top of regional soccer. The inevitable result is also a huge resurgence by them on the international stage. (However, Mexico has some qualifying matches with the US to win before I would agree they have overtaken that traditional role to be sure.)

And Mexico's resurgence is great for CONCACAF and for the US as well because it will push us to keep up the pace. It's all about competing first and foremost with your closest regional rivals folks and I love the quality and improvement Mexico is showing!

Congrats to all our El Tri fans on this board, I was pulling for El Tri and Honduras all the way once the US flopped at getting in!
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum



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Rufus T. Firefly
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Great job by Mexico in taking the crown. What strikes me not only about this current team but also the present senior Mexican team is how solid they are defensively. We've always seen Mexico pass the ball well but now they also have a strong defense and good goalkeeping. That helps explain their success. As does what several others here noted about Mexico's increased confidence, they no longer have an inferiority complex, whether they are playing the US, Brazil or Germany. That extra confidence is what has carried Mexico over the top.
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Sergio
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I am still celebrating Mexico's Olympic triumph. This beats winning the '99 Confederations Cup (vs Brazil), the '05 sub17 World Cup (also vs Brazil) and the '11 sub17 World Cup (vs Uruguay). What is behind Mexico's success? A combination of all the factors you have mentioned, the development of better youth programs at the club and national levels, the desire to move back ahead of the USA at the regional level, the attempts to become a team which regularly makes the World Cup quarterfinals and the improvement resulting from regular participation in South American club and national team competitions.

All of these factors have raised Mexico's play and that in turn has made the current generation of national teamers feel confident no matter whom they are facing. Mexico had good teams before (Copa America finalists in '93 and '01, regular semifinalists in other years, plus making the 2nd round of EVERY World Cup since '94) but those teams always seemed to run into mental roadblocks in decisive moments. That hopefully will now be a thing of the past as the current generation shows fearlessness when facing tough opponents. I can not wait to see how the national team develops further as it progresses towards Brazil 2014.

From this Olympic team obviously the 3 overage players are all national team regulars, except Peralta who is a sub behind Chicharito Hernandez and Aldo DeNigris but will be getting more opportunities after his play in the Olympics. Giovani Dos Santos is another national team regular but soon we will be seeing more players make the jump to the senior team like Fabian, Aquino, Herrera, Enriquez, I.Jimenez, Chavez, Mier and Reyes. Add these guys to Mexico's group of players who now are between 24-26 like Chicharito, Barrera, Guardado, Zavala, Moreno, Torres Nilo, Meza and Ochoa and there is a lot for we Mexico fans to look forward to!
"You left as a champion, you will always be in our hearts. Rest in Peace Christian Benítez."
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