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2010 World Cup Qualifying
Topic Started: Sep 9 2008, 05:12 AM (3,168 Views)
rosarino
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ursus arctos,Dec 2 2009
03:56 PM
The FIFA Executive Committee agreed today that extra officials will not be used in South Africa. Here's Blatter's quote.

"We spoke about what to do with refereeing in future. It's clear that the main match official and his assistants cannot see everything that happens on the field of play. So, is it better to have more match officials or open the door to technology? We will have to evaluate this, though we did take one decision: even if the experiment with two additional match officials in the [UEFA] Europa League continues through to the latter stages (of the competition), there won't be any changes for the 2010 FIFA World Cup. We will continue to use one main match official, two assistants and a fourth official. There's no discussion on this, (the finals) are too soon for us to evaluate other possibilities."

I guess we could not expect miracles or that a slow progressing organization like FIFA would adapt to modern changes quickly but those changes will come some day in the not too distant future.
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ursus arctos
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Very much so.

"Goal Judges" (or whatever the officals behind the goal will.eventually be called) are not a panacea, but I believe that they will over time significantly improve the accuracy and consistency of calls in the penalty area. The relative scarcity of goals in football and tbe relative certainty of penalties being successful means that getting more of those decisions right will have a disproportionately positive impact on the game as a whole. I'm also convinced that they can be a very positive force in the campaign against diving, which will be much harder to get away with.

I will be surprised if we don't see these officials in 2014.
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Don Balon
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ursus arctos,Dec 3 2009
04:20 AM
Very much so.

"Goal Judges" (or whatever the officals behind the goal will.eventually be called) are not a panacea, but I believe that they will over time significantly improve the accuracy and consistency of calls in the penalty area.  The relative scarcity of goals in football and tbe relative certainty of penalties being successful means that getting more of those decisions right will have a disproportionately positive impact on the game as a whole.  I'm also convinced that they can be a very positive force in the campaign against diving, which will be much harder to get away with.

I will be surprised if we don't see these officials in 2014.

All excellent points and the possibility of using these extra officials to eliminate diving would be a great side benefit of their use. But you know what gets me, is I see refs carding players for diving when they really were not diving, maybe there was some incidental contact or a slip yet refs sometimes card those players yet let those who do actually simulate a foul get away with it. Having an extra set of eyes along the goal line may eliminate that as in addition to cutting down on diving, I think they will be able to inform the referee when a player is legitimately going to ground or not.
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valenciano
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ursus arctos,Dec 2 2009
07:20 PM
Very much so.

"Goal Judges" (or whatever the officals behind the goal will.eventually be called) are not a panacea, but I believe that they will over time significantly improve the accuracy and consistency of calls in the penalty area. The relative scarcity of goals in football and tbe relative certainty of penalties being successful means that getting more of those decisions right will have a disproportionately positive impact on the game as a whole. I'm also convinced that they can be a very positive force in the campaign against diving, which will be much harder to get away with.

I will be surprised if we don't see these officials in 2014.

Very good points but I am not surprised the additional officials will not be used at the World Cup. This experiment is still new, if it is successful in the Europa league, and so far all indications are that it is, then it will be expanded to other competitions, perhaps even one of the U-17 or U-20 World Cups before it would ever be used at the senior World Cup, the maximum event in the sport. The experiment needs to run the full course of development before being put to use at the World Cup.
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Johnbuildr
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Yes, not surprising at all that they did not institute it for 2010. Actually, though, I don't see any downside whatsoever to the idea, except for the obvious one that it adds another layer of personnel and resulting cost to each match.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum



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Johnbuildr
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<<.....Anyway, it's not like the Irish to hold a grudge ;)

Have the FAI blamed Oliver Cromwell yet for them not being at the WC, or is that next week? *Ducks for cover* :o .... >>

I will post one last time on this, pointing out my reason for responding to Simon's above comment relating to the FAI, which he no doubt deemed to be a clever and humorous swipe at the Irish, if not a harmless little ditty. (And no one but Simon and I will probably give a damn about this of course, so sorry in advance for wasting the band width.)

I have as good a sense of humor as most people, am even often considered by many people to find humor where others fail to find it.
But, for those here who may not know, making a crack about the Irish failing to hold grudges (in itself a harmless jab) while tieing it to Oliver Cromwell, and even implying that he is unfairly blamed for any number of things unreasonably by the Irish, is not in the least bit funny to any Irish person, and is in actuality is a flat out insult.

I simply wanted to point that fact out. I'm not a politically correct person and normally don't give a care about off hand minor insults to any ethnic group, but that one siimply caught my eye as one that many here may not have realized was such.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum



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Simon
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It wasn't an obscure comment, and I don't believe there's anywhere that I've implied that I condone Cromwell's actions in Ireland. In fact I've explicitly condemned them several times. I'm from Manchester, which is often described as 'the biggest Irish city after Dublin'. There is a huge Irish community here, while virtually everyone else has Irish ancestry or connections. I'm 1/4 Irish myself and have plenty of family in Ireland. Hordes of Irish come across every weekend to watch United, several of whom I've known for years. The only reason I say that is to point out that ours is a mickey-taking culture and we banter about anglo-irish stuff all the time. People automatically understand that it's not intended or indeed received as a 'flat out insult'.

Okay, maybe having lived with this culture/humour all my life I wasn't sufficiently circumspect when posting on an international forum like this one, but then I did include two smilies and a 'ducks for cover' bit. Certainly no offence was intended. I hesitate to post this now lest I stir up a hornets nest, but this scene was from the BBC's top comedy of the 1990s, 'I'm Alan Partridge'. It's illustrative of the type of joking I'm on about, and mentions the Irish famine, terrorism and other stuff far more recent than Cromwell. Partridge is played by a Steve Coogan, a fellow Manchester bloke with the inevitable Irish name/background/family.



Ursus and Don Balon add further good elements of the extra officials experiment. I think we'd all recognise the truth of what valenciano says about how FIFA always needs to run the 'full course of development' before introducing a new idea such as this one. But really, why? It's not like the World Cup starts tomorrow, they have fully six months to prep for extra officials at the WC. Really, what's the worst that could happen if they introduced the idea at WC2010? Certainly nothing that would be as bad as a team being knocked out of the WC in precisely the same way as Ireland were knocked out of the play-offs. If that happens next summer, FIFA will look ridiculous IMO. Sometimes they move so slowly it makes you tear your hair out!!
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xeneize
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valenciano,Dec 3 2009
12:51 AM
ursus arctos,Dec 2 2009
07:20 PM
Very much so.

"Goal Judges" (or whatever the officals behind the goal will.eventually be called) are not a panacea, but I believe that they will over time significantly improve the accuracy and consistency of calls in the penalty area.  The relative scarcity of goals in football and tbe relative certainty of penalties being successful means that getting more of those decisions right will have a disproportionately positive impact on the game as a whole.  I'm also convinced that they can be a very positive force in the campaign against diving, which will be much harder to get away with.

I will be surprised if we don't see these officials in 2014.

Very good points but I am not surprised the additional officials will not be used at the World Cup. This experiment is still new, if it is successful in the Europa league, and so far all indications are that it is, then it will be expanded to other competitions, perhaps even one of the U-17 or U-20 World Cups before it would ever be used at the senior World Cup, the maximum event in the sport. The experiment needs to run the full course of development before being put to use at the World Cup.

That seems like the reasonable progression for integrating a new rule or in this case additional officials. If FIFA are against using technology as now appears the case, these extra goal line judges look like an alternative which at least might work and as ursus correctly in my mind points out could even help discourage diving, an ugly aspect of the game which seems to have increased in the last 20-30 years.

I know it just started as an offhand remark in a post but please guys let's leave the political discussions aside.
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xeneize
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Ursus and Don Balon add further good elements of the extra officials experiment. I think we'd all recognise the truth of what valenciano says about how FIFA always needs to run the 'full course of development' before introducing a new idea such as this one. But really, why? It's not like the World Cup starts tomorrow, they have fully six months to prep for extra officials at the WC. Really, what's the worst that could happen if they introduced the idea at WC2010? Certainly nothing that would be as bad as a team being knocked out of the WC in precisely the same way as Ireland were knocked out of the play-offs. If that happens next summer, FIFA will look ridiculous IMO. Sometimes they move so slowly it makes you tear your hair out!!

All true but remember this is FIFA which probably makes the International Olympic Committee look like a progressive forward thinking bunch! :)
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Simon
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Maybe that's the key, expect FIFA to disappoint you and then you won't be disappointed!

It wasn't always like this. I'm reminded of two occasions in 1891 (or at least reading about them, I wasn't there!). Stoke were the victims both times, firstly when an opposing player in an FA Cup match blatantly handled the ball on the line. The very next day the FA had a meeting and introduced the penalty kick! Second occasion was later that season when Stoke were 1-0 down at Aston Villa with just two minutes remaining. They were awarded one of these new-fangled penalty kicks, but the Villa goalie very unsportingly booted the ball out of the ground. By the time it had been recovered, the 90 minutes were up and the game was over! Result? Another FA meeting and the concept of 'added time' was introduced to football the next day. Two common sense rules that still work fine 108 years later, both introduced within 24 hours of the incident that prompted them, and without the need for endless debates and experiments in youth football!!

One more for fun, until 1910 goalkeepers were actually allowed to handle the ball anywhere on the pitch. This was changed after a match in Scotland between Third Lanark and Motherwell when both goalkeepers took advantage of this to score (I'd love to know how - surely they didn't just run down the pitch and throw the ball into goal?). The laws were promptly changed to only permit goalies to handle in the penalty area. The book I just got that from says that was the only time in first class football that both goalkeepers scored in the same match. The book's a fair few years old now though - does anyone know any different?
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Johnbuildr
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Simon,Dec 3 2009
01:25 PM
Maybe that's the key, expect FIFA to disappoint you and then you won't be disappointed!

It wasn't always like this. I'm reminded of two occasions in 1891 (or at least reading about them, I wasn't there!). Stoke were the victims both times, firstly when an opposing player in an FA Cup match blatantly handled the ball on the line. The very next day the FA had a meeting and introduced the penalty kick! Second occasion was later that season when Stoke were 1-0 down at Aston Villa with just two minutes remaining. They were awarded one of these new-fangled penalty kicks, but the Villa goalie very unsportingly booted the ball out of the ground. By the time it had been recovered, the 90 minutes were up and the game was over! Result? Another FA meeting and the concept of 'added time' was introduced to football the next day. Two common sense rules that still work fine 108 years later, both introduced within 24 hours of the incident that prompted them, and without the need for endless debates and experiments in youth football!!

One more for fun, until 1910 goalkeepers were actually allowed to handle the ball anywhere on the pitch. This was changed after a match in Scotland between Third Lanark and Motherwell when both goalkeepers took advantage of this to score (I'd love to know how - surely they didn't just run down the pitch and throw the ball into goal?). The laws were promptly changed to only permit goalies to handle in the penalty area. The book I just got that from says that was the only time in first class football that both goalkeepers scored in the same match. The book's a fair few years old now though - does anyone know any different?

Now THAT is some funny and very interesting stuff, Simon. Thanks for relating it.

And, X., in the bigger picture I don't think either of us really need to be told to keep politcal comments off the board. Judging from the whole of Simon's and my past posts we are not likely to go off course often enough to warrant it.

Frankly, I can't think of anyone I'd rather share a pint with than Simon. I know damn well I'd learn some more from him about football in the process. As well, we could discuss Irish history in more detail. :o
And, I know it was never intended to be offensive, but I took it as an unncessary jab at the Irish when you-know-who's name was invoked. My Irish heritage runs deep and I have visited and love the Emerald Isle, suffice it to say.
Finally, there are many things you can get away with saying in well known company or in certinal places that don't go over so well in others. I'll leave it at that.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum



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Simon
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Frankly, I can't think of anyone I'd rather share a pint with than Simon.

Haha come on, you can't have been thinking very hard! I'm not sure I'm good enough company to share my own pint with myself! :P But okay, let's make it a Guinness!

Finally, there are many things you can get away with saying in well known company or in certinal places that don't go over so well in others.

This rings true. If I ever think of any quips about Culloden, I'll keep them to myself when I'm next in Glasgow!
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alabastergremlin
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Lets see how well this goes over...

Simon, how in the hell can you type out the "rule-change" post and NOT give the name of the book!!?!?

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ursus arctos
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Not sure where Simon got it from, but I recall reading that story on this goalkeeping-oriented site.

Which also notes that the Scots' record has since been matched by Chilavert and Roberto Bonano, who both scored penalties in a Copa Mercosur match in 2000.
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Sergio
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ursus arctos,Dec 3 2009
06:15 PM
Not sure where Simon got it from, but I recall reading that story on this goalkeeping-oriented site.


From the link,

Former Mexican Under-23 goalkeeper Oscar Perez scored from open play in injury time against South Korea in an international friendly played in the US. Having just cleared a corner, the last thing the Koreans expected was to see the opposition goalkeeper standing on the edge of the box but Perez was there and the ball fell nicely for him to strike it past his opposite number in the Korean goal.

I was at that game! It was played at Cal State Fullerton in the spring of 1996
as Mexico's U23 team was prepping for the Atlanta Olympics. And Perez' goal was a great one which brought the crowd to its feet. One of the more emotional moments of any match I've been to.

Interesting post from Simon about the immediate rule changes in response to circumstances in the late 1800s and early 1900s. But then there was no FIFA and whichever English organization (the FA?) overseeing the sport was not run by bureaucrats like Sepp Blatter!
"You left as a champion, you will always be in our hearts. Rest in Peace Christian Benítez."
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