| Welcome to Soccer Futbol Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| 2010 World Cup Qualifying | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 9 2008, 05:12 AM (3,170 Views) | |
| Yogi | Nov 19 2009, 01:18 PM Post #166 |
![]()
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Those are excellent points Simon, and the extra officials behind the goal ala Europa League was something I was thinking about this morning as a co worker and I were discussing the Henry handball. So far that experiment is working in that competition and I would hope it would be expanded to other events. Simon's other point about technology being used in major tennis (and cricket but I didn't know about that) competitions but not in local events is a perfect example of how technology could be used for football's big events even if it won't, or can't, be used, as valenciano says, in Bosnia or Mozambique. It is time for the sport to get with the times and use technology. I don't think it will take away from a referee's authority, and now the referee and linesmen in major competitiosn are connected via radio, so why not take the enxt step and use technology to see if a ball ahs crossed the goal line or if somebody handled aball on it's way towards goal? raconteur wrote, I'm thinking of Trappattoni who was victimized as Italy coach by home town calls against Korea at World Cup 2002 now lightning strikes twice against a Trap coached team as France eliminated Ireland with a handled goal. Yes poor Trap but maybe he's paying the price for all those years working at Juventus and getting all the calls go his way! [runs for cover for when libero reads that!]
|
![]() |
|
| Nkono | Nov 19 2009, 07:59 PM Post #167 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Naturally the debate today is Henry's handball, very surprising the linesman at the very least did not see it as he had a good angle of the play even if the referee, behind the play and shielded by players from both sides did not. France were horrible yesterday, Ireland's energy and tactics had them baffled, as Yogi notes Gourcuff disappeared, Gignac could not control the ball, Benzema never left the bench and all the while Domenech looked lost on the sidelines. It is true Anelka should have been awarded a penalty for Given's foul against him a few moments before Henry's fateful handball and the press has ignored that while discussing Henry's play. That no call against Anelka does reduce the general unfairness to Ireland of the French goal. If Ireland, however, had played like they did in Paris in the first match in Dublin they would be going to South Africa instead of France. Instead it is Les Bleus going but as Yogi correctly points out with Domenech coaching them, there is disaster ahead for this team. You knew it was going to be a tough game for France early on when Evra accidentally broke teammate Escude's nose! |
![]() |
|
| MerlinTX | Nov 19 2009, 09:00 PM Post #168 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
What is frustrating for the Irish has to be that other match officials other than the three on the pitch saw the handball. I know that in some circumstances, the fourth official can contribute to the calling of a foul, particularly on the bench, but I'm not sure if they have any input to the action on the field. Certainly the other match officials present must have been appalled by watching this controversial blown call occur and the hail of criticism they must have know was about to be unleashed in their direction. As to the issue of replay, I don't think we are even close to having replay for the evaluation of any plays. FIFA is fixated on goal line issues and hasn't even considered the possibility of offside disputes. The idea that they would have rules for intervention during the run of play for hand balls and other fouls is decades away at the very least. FIFA is not interested in "Fair Play" despite their slogan. They are interested in Euros and any other currency they can grab. |
![]() |
|
| alabastergremlin | Nov 19 2009, 09:30 PM Post #169 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
What seems to bother me the most about the play is how obviously intentional it was. We've all seen handballs go uncalled but most of the time it appears as much of a split-second instinct or reaction. Henry not only hit it once, he hit it twice (once to stop it/once to control it basically). Henry has said he told the ref that he handled the ball but all I've seen is clips of him running around celebrating. I'd love to see video of him talking to the ref. I see that Ireland is asking for the game to be replayed and they are apparently citing a past incident. However, the incident they are citing seems to be a case of a rule being misinterpreted rather than a call being missed. I'm of mixed opinion of this. I think Ireland got robbed. However, several have cited a missed PK call from just before (I didn't see the game nor the missed call in question). I just don't know if I like the idea of replaying the game because of the missed call. If they were to grant a replay (and I can't imagine them doing so) I am going to officially submit a review of the US/Germany game from WC02. Ha. I also think this is getting more attention because of the apparently rigged-draw system they used for the playoffs. Now you have two fires burning. Perhaps it is not fair, but I hope France goes 3 and out during the group stage. |
![]() |
|
| Sporting | Nov 19 2009, 09:32 PM Post #170 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Where I think Trapattoni has a good point is in suggesting that extra time in two legged matches are done away with. I don't have any statistics on this, but it would logically seem that the team lucky enough to be at home in the second leg in such when an extra half-hour is played has a built-in advantage, apart from the one (again, no statistics at hand; can anyone help?) gained by playing at their own stadium in the second leg in any case. |
![]() |
|
| hobbes | Nov 20 2009, 02:41 AM Post #171 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I suspect most of you haven’t seen the Looney Tunes movie Space Jam, but it involves Michael Jordan and the Looney Tunes characters playing a bunch of cartoon aliens in a game of basketball for the fate of the earth. The aliens are small, but they have the technology to steal the talent of all of the NBA’s stars. I only bring this up because there’s a sequence in the movie where all of the NBA stars try to play without their talent — they can’t dribble, they can’t catch a ball, they can’t even run. Somehow this came to mind watching France play Ireland. I was pulling for France, but that might have been the worst World Cup qualifying performance I’ve ever seen. Lloris played well and that was probably it. The Irish really only attacked with four men (the backs almost never got forward and Andrews and Whelan very rarely) and yet they caused them no end of trouble. The Irish pressed them hard, but I couldn’t believe how bad the French passing was. I honestly didn’t think it was a penalty on Anelka. The contact was extremely minimal and Anelka was looking for it from the start. I’ve seen worse called and there was some contact, but I would have thought that to have been a very cruel penalty call. As far as Henry goes, obviously you have to really feel for the Irish to go out like that especially after having out-played France over two legs. It was as clear cut as they come and if the referee can’t see it he just wasn’t in the right position. I can forgive the linesman who was on the far side, but Homer Simpson in the red there has to see that. As far as Henry goes, I don’t vilify him too badly. Every player in the world handles the ball to gain an advantage or tugs a shirt and tries not to be spotted or goes down to try to draw a foul. Every player tries to push it as much as they can to get the result. Both sides handled the ball a few times that game. It’s just that that one wasn’t spotted and ended up being the key moment. I can’t see anyway in that moment you can hold your hand up with the Parc des Princes going mental and say “no better call that one back, I handled it.” As soon as the whistle went and the heat of the game passed you could see he felt bad about the way the game ended and his role in it. I thought it was a nice moment between him and Dunne. A very human moment. Anyway on to Slovenia . . . it wasn’t so much that I thought Russia were likely to implode, but rather I knew Slovenia were decent, but more importantly reliable. I wasn’t sure if Slovenia could play with Russia, I thought it was possible, the Russians would just play them off the park and win 4-0 in Moscow, but when that didn’t happen, I really thought they’d get the result. They’re good in the back, they work hard in the midfield, they’re organized and Novacovic and Dedic are a really handful with their combination of pace and size. I think Kek deserves huge credit for his tactics. He kept Birsa and Kirm wide and didn’t really play with a No. 10. But as soon as they got the ball they went in-field, giving room to Jokic and Bechko to get forward from the outside backs. Yanbaev was playing left back and didn’t seem to know what to do with Birsa who seemed to be wide open as an outlet all day. Zhirkov pushed up from left back to left mid after the first leg seemed disinterested in helping out either. On the other side Anyukov (arguably to the worst Russian in the first leg) chased Kirm all over the place. Denisov, who I thought had a good match dind’t have a lot to do really. Anyway it was one of those balls out wide to Birsa that led to the goal. For awhile I though Akinfeev was going to keep Russia in the cup himself. And I have no idea Hiddinck kept Zyryanov in the match. I was sure he’d be the first sub, but he lasted the 90 with no one to mark and bringing nothing to the attack. I have to echo the comment that I can’t believe Yugoslavia never did more, but I think to be great the team has to be right and maybe such a diverse nation never found that team harmony that seems to be such a key component of it’s former states. When Ukraine missed chance after chance early I was sure no one was ever going to score, but ultimately I thought Greece were deserving. Especially with so many players out of the side. Also a very good display by Portugal in a tough atmosphere and on a terrible pitch. They still wasted chances, but as someone mentioned before Wednesday Eduardo has been fantstic. cheers, hobbes |
| Saskatchewan for the CPL: multis e gentibus vires | |
![]() |
|
| Merengue | Nov 20 2009, 08:33 AM Post #172 |
|
Administrator
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
FIFA have not surprisingly rejected Ireland's plea for a replay even if today Thierry Henry said that would be the fairest resolution of the situation. As gremlin pointed out the one time FIFA did dictate a replay was in a Bahrain-Uzbekistan qualifier in 2005 where there was a mistake in interpreting the rules by the ref- during an Uzbek PK, an Uzbeki player entered the area before the PK was taken, rather than just order a retake of the PK the ref mistakenly gave Bahrain a free kick denying Uzbekistan the PK that they had earned. This was a wrong interpretation of the rule. But in France-Ireland it was not a misinterpretation of a rule, it was the referee, and his lineman who to me is the person most at fault here, missing a call. Thus no replay. I can understand hobbes' point about the no call on Anelka [but not his Space Jams reference! :lol:] to me that could have been awarded a penalty but I can also see how the ref could have interpreted it as not being sufficient contact to blow the whistle, particularly under those circumstances, extra time in a playoff for a World Cup spot, you don't just whistle a borderline penalty in those cases. But the officials just blew the call with Henry's handball. As nkono noted the ref was poorly placed, behind the play and screened by players from both teams but that is where the linesman is supposed to help him out. Well at least Thierry Henry will be remembered for something else besides bottling it in big games! |
| http://twitter.com/#!/SocrFutbolForum | |
![]() |
|
| gaviota | Nov 20 2009, 10:37 AM Post #173 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The referee was very much out of position, I can not recall but was the play leading up to France's goal a free kick or just something which happened during play? If it was the last then the ref being out of position may be a understandable as he did not catch up to where the attacking players were. But if it was a free kick then he was very much out of position, standing outside the penalty area when all the action happened inside. I saw replays from near the goal line and the linesman was perfectly placed to see the play, no player was obstructing his view of Henry. He simply missed the call. I join those who think this sort of play is why video replays should be permitted. It is not as if the game will constantly be stopped so a replay could be reviewed. It likely won't even happen in most games but when a play does happen where the referee did not see the action, and the multiple Irish players reaction should have instantly clued him that there was some controversy involved, then use a replay to make sure the call is correct. Simon's observation about technology being used at the highest levels of tennis is I think apprpriate to this situation in football. With the technology available, make sure the call is correct. |
| CHAMP13NS | |
![]() |
|
| ursus arctos | Nov 20 2009, 02:19 PM Post #174 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It was off a very long free kick that travelled from just beyond the edge of the centre circle almost to the touch line. There is a good clip here. I think it is a bit harsh to blame the ref for his positioning; given how far out the kick was taken from, he couldn't really take up a position within the area lest the kick be taken short (or even "medium"). Assuming that he was in fact unsighted, one thing that he can be criticized for is insisting that the ball hit Henry on the chest (as he appears to do a couple of times in the clip above). |
![]() |
|
| Yogi | Nov 20 2009, 02:39 PM Post #175 |
![]()
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Thanks for providing the clip and I agree with ursus I too think the ref was positioned correctly considering where the free kick was taken from. This was not a corner where you would expect him to take up a position near the end line. You can see from the clip, after the Irish players complained of the handball the ref went over to the linesman but obviously he did not see the handball either. This incident happened in the 103rd minute, so Ireland had 17 minutes after that to score. Anybody recall if they had any decent scoring chances after that? I've seen so many games in the past week I have forgotten. All I recall is France's goalie Lloris making some good saves and being very quick off his line. |
![]() |
|
| Pique | Nov 20 2009, 11:45 PM Post #176 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You would think the extra official behind the goal line as they are experimenting in the Europa League would have spotted Henry's handball. I think this incident will speed up the expansion of that experiment. The dinosaurs at FIFA seem against any use of video replays but at least they're open to the use of these additional officials so that I think is something we will see more of soon. |
|
Esas son las leyendas de futbol mexicano, En todo Mexico hay un Chiva hermano! | |
![]() |
|
| Simon | Nov 21 2009, 06:25 AM Post #177 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Roy Keane's press conferences are never less than entertaining, and so it was worth watching when he was asked about the Henry thing. It's plain to see why he won so many trophies and was such a great captain, he refuses to let anyone feel sorry for themselves and is utterly uncompromising and practical. He seems to place all the blame on the Irish defence for not clearing the ball! He also clearly still hates the Irish FA after the 2002 WC fiasco. "Same old Irish, no mental strength, afraid to take the next step. What goes around comes around. France are going to the World Cup, get over it" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fXh7VpObbg Bloody hell, that's one angry and intense bloke. I bet the fellow with the phone was wetting himself . You can see why Roy doesn't have many friends in football.By contrast, Eric Cantona was interviewed about it, said it was a disgrace, brought shame on French football etc. Someone asked him what he'd have done if he'd been Richard Dunne when Henry came and sat next to him. "I'd have hit him. Henry wouldn't have lasted 3 seconds". The funny thing is, as someone has pointed out, Keane is coming at this from a totally anti-Irish perspective, while Cantona is approaching it from a totally anti-French perspective! Both of them hate the football establishments of their own country, in fact Cantona says he feels English rather than French. Still, two interesting voices to add to the debate!
|
![]() |
|
| ursus arctos | Nov 21 2009, 06:25 AM Post #178 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
There were a number of reports in the European press yesterday suggesting that FIFA is seriousky consideringaccelerating the timetable so as to be able to use these additional officials for the finals in South Africa. |
![]() |
|
| Mr. Pither | Nov 21 2009, 09:55 AM Post #179 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I can't help but think of something some other old timers may recall, Joe Jordan's handball against Wales in 1977 in the decisive World Cup qualifying match for Argentina 78 between Wales and Scotland: Joe Jordan's Handball At least Thierry Henry admitted to his handling, 32 years later Jordan has not! Back to the present, I am assuming from the comments that the extra official experiment in the Europa League has been working. If so and this Henry incident speeds up greater use of those extra officials, then something good will have come of it. Can't say the same about Jordan's handball in 1977!
|
|
P-I-T-H-E-R ...as in Brotherhood, but with PI instead of the BRO and no HOOD | |
![]() |
|
| Manzanares | Nov 28 2009, 08:55 AM Post #180 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Even France's World Cup winning manager Aime Jacquet thinks Domenech should have left following Euro 2008, http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=a...ov=ap&type=lgns Jacquet says that Domenech should have lost his coaching job after France’s campaign at the 2008 European Championship when the team failed to advance from the group stage. Instead, Domenech was kept in the post by the French football federation and struggled to qualify for next year’s World Cup. “The French federation didn’t understand the nature of the job,” Jacquet told France Football magazine. “They should have protected him from himself.” Jacquet insisted that Domenech’s team “played a bad game” in its recent World Cup playoff against Ireland. France eventually went through with a contested 2-1 aggregate win. Following a 1-0 victory in Dublin thanks to Nicolas Anelka’s deflected shot, France secured a 1-1 draw at home after Thierry Henry handled the ball in the lead-up to William Gallas’ equalizer. Jacquet, who led France to its maiden World Cup win in 1998 and has been a long-time supporter of Domenech, said it’s time for him to explain the team’s poor run. “He should explain what happened and, more generally, what has been going on since 2008,” Jacquet said. “Even his players are waiting for it (an explanation).” Jacquet, who coached France from 1994 to 1998, said it is impossible to perform well in the post for more than four years. Domenech took over from Jacques Santini in 2004. D'accord! |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · UEFA · Next Topic » |






![]](http://z1.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)
[runs for cover for when libero reads that!]



. You can see why Roy doesn't have many friends in football.
5:04 PM Jul 10