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Champions League
Topic Started: Aug 1 2008, 07:30 AM (4,240 Views)
Simon
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Yes it sounds broadly reasonable.

This week's games:

Tuesday, 4 November 2008
CFR Cluj v Bordeaux, Gp A, 19:45
Roma v Chelsea, Gp A, 19:45
Anorthosis Famagusta v Inter Milan, Gp B, 19:45
Werder Bremen v Panathinaikos, Gp B, 19:45
Barcelona v Basle, Gp C, 19:45
Sporting v Shakhtar Donetsk, Gp C, 19:45
Liverpool v Atletico Madrid, Gp D, 19:45
Marseille v PSV, Gp D, 19:45

Wednesday, 5 November 2008
AaB v Villarreal, Gp E, 19:45
Celtic v Man Utd, Gp E, 19:45
Fiorentina v Bayern Munich, Gp F, 19:45
Lyon v Steaua Bucurest, Gp F, 19:45
Arsenal v Fenerbahce, Gp G, 19:45
Dynamo Kiev v FC Porto, Gp G, 19:45
BATE v Zenit St Petersburg, Gp H, 19:45
Real Madrid v Juventus, Gp H, 19:45

We're getting onto the final straight now, and several teams go into this round of matches needing a win to preserve any realistic chance of qualifying, while other teams can virtually secure their second round spots with victory. There's a dramatic contrast between the respective current form of Roma and Chelsea, but I would think Roma should still put up a tough fight in such a big game at their own Stadio Olimpico. Even if Chelsea win, Roma will have a crack at qualifying with their final two games against Cluj and Bordeaux. Anorthosis have upset the apple cart so far, but their position still looks vulnerable with Werder Bremen breathing down their necks. It's important for the Germans that they beat Panathinaikos at home. Basle were like rabbits in the headlights when they played Barcelona last time, unwilling even to compete or put any tackles in. Barcelona seem sure to administer a repeat dosage in the Nou Camp which would mean any Sporting Lisbon win over Shakhtar in Portugal would be a knockout blow to the Ukrainians chances. Should PSV fail to win in Marseille, any winner between Liverpool and Atletico Madrid would be through to the next round. Fernando Torres is rated by Benitez with a 70% chance of facing his old club.

United, along with Chelsea, are the only two teams still yet to concede a goal, but we've not defended wonderfully in a couple of our recent games and we know that Celtic are every bit as formidable at Parkhead as they are terrible away. Alex Ferguson, as a former Rangers centre-forward, is sure to get his usual warm reception from the Celtic fans! If Villarreal win at Aab I think they have a decent chance of going top. Not much margin for error now for Fiorentina, which isn't such great news when they're about to play Bayern Munich, even in Florence. And yet who knows what to expect from Bayern? If Lyon win at home to Steaua it would put the Romanians to bed and usher the French champions closer to their customary spot in the latter stages. Arsenal should be able to tighten their grip on Group G against bottom club Fenerbahce, although they've lost some ground in the domestic league and it's very possible that Wenger will play a weakened side ahead of their game with United at the weekend. Not that that would be too encouraging for the Turks as it was a weakened Arsenal side that won 5-2 in Istanbul last time. 2nd-placed Dynamo Kiev play 3rd-placed Porto in a game that should go a long way to deciding who qualifies for the next round. Real Madrid would leapfrog group leaders Juventus if they can beat them at the Bernebeu, while it's probably last-chance saloon for BATE and Zenit. Whoever loses would be done for, while a draw isn't of much use to either team.
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Don Balon
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I always laugh at how clubs get punishments and then are able to reduce those upon appeal. I am not denying their right to appeal but is it not curiois how often the penalty gets reduced on appeal? If the reduced penalty is the more fair one why not give that as the initial punishment?

Many of us have been following clubs like Cluj and Anorthosis in this competition, as Simon sets out both have key matches this week if they wish to remain in positions to qualify. This could be their moment to define their campaign.

Liverpool-Atletico looks like an interesting match to me. While both are in a fairly secure position in the group, a Marseille win today would add some pressure to a team which loses between Liverpool and Atletico. The Atletico fans on this board are saying their club are recovered from their past month's difficulties, but I am less certain and playing at Liverpool usually is not the path to get back to winning ways!
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Winslow
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Tuesday's scores...
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Group A: Cluj 1, Bordeaux 2; Roma 3, Chelsea 1.
Group B: Anorthosis 3, Inter Milan 3; Werder Bremen 0, Panathinaikos 3.
Group C: Barcelona 1, Basle 1; Sporting Lisbon 1, Shakhtar Donetsk 0.
Group D: Liverpool 1, Atletico Madrid 1; Marseille 3, PSV Eindhoven 0.

Now back to tonight's election returns...
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Simon
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Tonight's scores:
CFR Cluj 1-2 Bordeaux
Roma 3-1 Chelsea
Anorthosis Famagusta 3-3 Inter Milan
Werder Bremen 0-3 Panathinaikos
Barcelona 1-1 Basle
Sporting 1-0 Shakhtar Donetsk
Liverpool 1-1 Atletico Madrid
Marseille 3-0 PSV

Winslow's quite possibly out voting so I thought I'd jump in with the scores on a dramatic night in the CL. Some surprising results tonight, I was quite surprised by Chelsea conceding three in Rome but that's minor compared to the continued progress of Anorthosis, the stuffing Werder suffered at home and the draw that Basle got in the Nou Camp. I thought it was another bad night for the officials in Rome and at Anfield as well.

Chelsea were in control for half an hour in Rome but then they uncharacteristically switched off completely at a free-kick to allow Panucci to score and after that the game ran away from them. Crucially they conceded a second right at the start of the second half and then a third on the counter-attack (why did Mikel go to ground so easily?) John Terry pulled one back but it looked like the ball had hit him high on the arm before it bounced back off the keeper for him to slot in. That ended up not mattering but what might matter for Chelsea is Deco's ridiculous second yellow card for taking a free-kick quickly. A win apiece between Chelsea and Roma then, and Roma are right back in the hunt. Chelsea will be through if they win in Bordeaux. Looks like Shakhtar and Basle are definitely out but I was amazed at Basle's battling performance and late equaliser in the Nou Camp after their spineless showing in the home fixture. And a shocking night for Werder, who's defending is pretty haphazard at home and abroad. What they seem to have found is that at the other end of the field they can't replicate the flood of goals they score in the Bundesliga when they play in the CL.

Werder are still in with a chance though after that remarkable 3-3 draw between Anorthosis and Inter. What a great story that Cypriot side have been and they may yet even make the 2nd round. Bad night for Nicolas Burdisso and for Inter in general. Nor was it a great night for the referee at Anfield as he gave a string of bad decisions. Mostly he and his assistants were just giving goal-kicks instead of corners but he missed a huge appeal for a Liverpool penalty when Perea handled and I'm willing to bet that was on his mind when he gave IMO a totally non-existent penalty for Liverpool deep into injury-time allowing them to draw 1-1. If anything, Gerrard jumped into Pernia! I suppose you could argue that Liverpool deserved at least a draw as they absolutely laid siege to the Atletico goal but they were rescued by the ref. I thought Atletico ended up too deep though and didn't do themselves any favours. Some kind of Gerrard injury-time equaliser seemed inevitable, but the way it came made me want to break everything in sight so I imagine it was worse still for manzanares!

EDIT: Ah, there you are Winslow! Think I'll go and watch some of the election stuff myself, though maybe not an all-night marathon of it!
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Merengue
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I almost felt sorry for Atletico Madrid. Notice I said almost! ;) They scored a first half goal on the counter which was well taken by Maxi Rodriguez who left Carragher in his dust. After that Atletico, essentially playing 5 at the back and using Forlan and later Aguero alone up top, defended tenaciously and really shut Liverpool down. Liverpool had one possible handball claimed turned down by the Swedish ref and Atletico had two in their favor which could have been called but were turned down. Then in the 90th minute the ref invented a penalty as Pernia and Gerrard collided in the air going for a bouncing ball. An absolutely baffling PK which Gerrard converted for the tie. Liverpool certainly had the run of play but they must be thanking the ref for the late gift which gave them the draw. Marseille's easy win over PSV eliminates the Dutch team and gives Marseille hope but if Liverpool defeats Marseille next round and Atletico beats PSV, Marseille will also be eliminated.

Barca rested some starters but brought Messi and Xavi in off the bench and Messi scored their lone goal but a late Basle goal by Dediyok gave the Swiss club it's first points. But the draw was enough to automatically qualify Barcelona. Sporting's 2nd win over Shakhtar all but sends them through as the 2nd team in the group. Shakhtar were looking good in the group until Barca scored those two late goals in the 2nd match day to steal a victory. Since then it has been all downhill for Shakhtar.

I did not see the game but Anorthosis really pushed Inter and twice came from a goal behind to take a 3-2 lead only to see Julio Cruz score a late equalizer for Inter. You have to marvel at Anorthosis' performance. And they were helped big time by Panathinaikos' win over Werder Bremen. Inter lead the group with 8 points, Anorthosis have 5, Panathianikos 4 and Bremen 3.

Huge win for slumping Roma at home over Chelsea, combined with Bordeaux's win in Romania over Cluj and that group has been thrown wide open. You still have to think Chelsea are in line to advance but the 2nd spot is wide open now.

Oops, I see Simon beat me to this info, well I was typing slowly today!
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rosarino
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A horrible call in favor of Liverpool. But Simon is correct that Atletico, after going ahead on a great goal by Maxi Rodriguez were forced to defend pretty deeply. Overall they defended well but defending that deeply is usually asking for trouble. And they didn't find trouble, trouble found them with that poor penalty. What is worse, as Merengue noted, is the ref ignored 3 handballs inside the box, 2 in favor of Atletico, 1 for Liverpool, which all were much clearer penalties than the one which was called. Notwithstanding the controversy both Liverpool and Atletico are still well positioned in the group and control their own fate.

From what I have read Burdisso had a nightmare of a game for Inter. Not too surprising to me as I think he is a weakness for them. But Anorthosis' dream continues. Since the Champions League was formed has their ever been as small a club which has been this successful in the competition? I can not recall one but maybe others can.
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historyman
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Merengue,Nov 4 2008
03:50 PM
Then in the 90th minute the ref invented a penalty as Pernia and Gerrard collided in the air going for a bouncing ball. An absolutely baffling PK which Gerrard converted for the tie. Liverpool certainly had the run of play but they must be thanking the ref for the late gift which gave them the draw.

All I can say is that there must have been an Atletico sniper somewhere in the stands at Anfield last night, judging by Gerrard's theatrical fall! :P
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Dr. Z
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Atletico got hosed but I agree with those who commented that by sitting back and defending they were inviting trouble. Liverpool and Atletico both looked well placed to advance though so this result likely won't effect the race that much unless one of them lose next round.

Roma's win and the margin of victory are what surprised me the most about Tuesday's matches. After playing so poorly this season they went out and whipped up on the English league leader. The Roma-Bordeaux match is looming as a decisive one in that group.
Poniendo el pecho a las balas!
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Winslow
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Simon, thanks for the backup. Now Wednesday's scores...
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Group E: Aalborg 2, Villarreal 2; Celtic 1, Man United 1.
Group F: Fiorentina 1, Bayern Munich 1; Lyon 2, Steaua Bucharest 0.
Group G: Arsenal 0, Fenerbahce 0; Dynamo Kyiv 1, Porto 2.
Group H: BATE Borisov 0, Zenit 2; Real Madrid 0, Juventus 2.

Some interesting results here; Del Piero scored twice as I Gobbi knocked off the Galacticos again, this time at the Bernebeu, while Lucho's injury-time goal gave Porto a desperately-needed win in Ukraine after falling at home to Dynamo two weeks ago. Man U rested a bunch of players and nearly paid for it, but Giggs scored late (tucking home a rebound coughed up by keeper Boruc) to take home a point.

The Gunners' recent poor form continued, as they couldn't score on the same Turkish side that crumbled 5-2 at home to Arsenal two weeks ago. Aalborg had to come from behind twice at home to get a draw; Rossi and Guille Franco scored for Villarreal.
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Simon
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I'm not too dissatisfied with United's draw in Glasgow, as everyone knows what a hard place it is to visit, Celtic have lost just one of their last 13 home CL games and they've beaten several big sides there in the recent past - and very nearly us tonight. I thought it was a highly entertaining game and United dominated for the most part, but Celtic took their early lead with a perfect finish by McDonald and although United's quick passing was menacing, Celtic showed great resilience, work-rate and intelligence. We did deserve our equaliser though and Celtic had other narrow escapes, not least when Berbatov missed a good chance to win it with the last kick of the ball. I anticipated we might drop points tonight so it's good for us that Villarreal did likewise so that we now need just one point to qualify.

Arsenal dominated their game and would have won if Van Persie had been a bit more composed with some of the good chances he had, but this was hardly the first time that Arsenal have been completely on top but lacked the cutting edge to convert their control of a game into goals. They have real injury problems at the moment and certainly they miss Adebayor in particular. My hope is that his comeback is AFTER the Arsenal-United game at the weekend! With Porto's win, Arsenal still have work to do. Lyon started very slowly this year but two games against the weak Steaua have been the perfect tonic and the French are now top of the group. Fiorentina, thanks to Borowski's late equaliser in Florence, still haven't actually won a game in Group F and it looks like they've left themselves too much to do. Juve's first win over Real Madrid was a real turning point in their season and their subsequent winning streak continued in Spain. Real will be looking over their shoulders at Zenit, and while I still think they'll qualify comfortably enough I suppose the two losses against the Italians provides some cause for concern.
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libero
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Del Piero is really in good form now, as Winslow wrote he scored twice, once after Marcchioni interecepted a bad pass and gave Del Piero room to run at Madrid's defense and shoot from just outside the area, then in the second half he took advantage of a poorly positioned Madrid wall to knock in a free kick. Surprising that a goalie of Casillas' caliber would set up such a poor wall but Del Piero saw the opening and exploited it. Madrid had the ball but rarely tested Manninger while Sissoko bullied any Madrid player off the ball and Nedved was his usual busy self. This has been a good few weeks for Juve and they are now assured a spot in the next round.
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Manzanares
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Well I was hurting following the Atletico-Liverpool game and the atrocious penalty at the end but with a day to think about it I do realize Atletico are still well positioned in the group and I was happy how well the team defended against Liverpool. It gives me optimism for what is to come.

Real Madrid played poorly at home against Juventus. It has not been a good week for the vikingos. They played without much conviction and gave Juventus plenty of room to attack them. Looks like Real Madrid will now be playing for 2nd place in the group. Schuster seems to change lineups so often that recently Madrid are playing without much cohesiveness.

Surpriisng win by Porto and as Simon wrote it reversed Dynamo Kiev's win against them in Portugal. Sets up a good finish in that group with fenerbahce still trailing beind them depsite their draw against Arsenal. The Gunners still look in good place to me to win the group.
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gaviota
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Casillas acknowledged that he made an error in positioning the wall on Del Piero's free kick. It was a surprising mistake from him but I doubt if we will ever see that repeated again. Sneijder and Guti had not yet played together this season prior to last night's match and it showed but between the two of them is where Madrid should be able to generate the offense in the future. A bad night for Real Madrid but that was all it was in my view, no need to think this is a crisis.

CHAMP13NS
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Nkono
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Lyon and Bayern Munich are in good position after this week's games. Juninho scored yet another free kick goal for Lyon, that was his 40th for the club! One of the real masters of free kicks in the world game. And with the purchase of Elderson, Lyon can now afford to give Juninho more time off which should enable him to be fresher by season's end. I think this has a chance to be the best Lyon team since Essien, Diarra and Malouda were still there.
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Merengue
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gaviota,Nov 6 2008
04:51 AM
Casillas acknowledged that he made an error in positioning the wall on Del Piero's free kick. It was a surprising mistake from him but I doubt if we will ever see that repeated again. Sneijder and Guti had not yet played together this season prior to last night's match and it showed but between the two of them is where Madrid should be able to generate the offense in the future. A bad night for Real Madrid but that was all it was in my view, no need to think this is a crisis.

Agree gaviota on all counts. I would also like to see Sneijder playing farther up the field, closer to the forwards where he can generate more danger. Schuster has been changing lineups frequently which may help preserve the players as the season progresses but the short term cost for now is a lack of cohesion in their play. A disappointing game against Juventus for sure but I am not concerned (yet!) about qualifying for the 2nd round. It is in March, April and May when I want to see the team playing well rather than October and November.

nkono, thank you for the info on Juninho. 40 free kick goals is a great accomplishment. He is a real threat anywhere within 35 yards of goal, either via a direct shot on goal or by looking for a teammate. As Benzema matures Lyon has the target player who can feed off of players like Juninho and Govou.
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