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Champions League
Topic Started: Aug 1 2008, 07:30 AM (4,233 Views)
Dr. Z
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Johnbuildr,Mar 12 2009
10:24 AM
Manzanares,Mar 12 2009
11:04 AM
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The ability to go for the jugular is what separated Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea from their opponents this week.  I do not envy whichever club gets drawn against any of those three.-----------

It will be interesting to see how the EPL teams finish this UEFA CL. In recent history, if you call the last 26 years recent, the EPL has not faired well. Since 1984 only three EPL winners.

True but there was that suspension after the riots in Belgium for some of that period. Recently all 4 participating English clubs have been major players in the Champions League with each making the final in the past 3 seasons. I think it would be a surprise if at least one of the 4 English teams left does not make this season's final.

I was happy with how Barcelona played against Lyon, anytime you score 5 tiems you have to be happy. I like the starting team Guardiola used last night and with Puyol out I think that is the best team Barca can use. Valdes in goal, Pique and Marquez at centerback, Daniel Alves and Sylvinho at fullback, Yaya Toure at defensive midfield, Xavi and Iniesta in front of him and the attacking tri of Messi, Etoo and Henry.
Poniendo el pecho a las balas!
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Johnbuildr
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Dr. Z,Mar 12 2009
11:43 AM
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True but there was that suspension after the riots in Belgium for some of that period. Recently all 4 participating English clubs have been major players in the Champions League with each making the final in the past 3 seasons. I think it would be a surprise if at least one of the 4 English teams left does not make this season's final.

Oh, I agree that one of the EPL teams is likely to make the final. Maybe two, if the bracketing allows.

I'm curious, about how many eyars did that suspension last? 3 or 4 years?
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum



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Simon
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The post-Heysel ban was for 5 years, but I think it took English clubs another few years to adapt their game to Europe again after the ban. That was a generation of English players who were unused to foreign opposition, and so English teams struggled badly in the CL in the early to mid-90s (the 3 foreigners rule hit the English teams hardest as well) while meanwhile England didn't qualify for the 94 WC. It seems certain that there would have been further English wins in the late 80s if it wasn't for the ban, but I certainly don't lose any sleep over that as they would likely have gone the way of Liverpool. They were awesome in 86 and especially 88, for example, the years the CL was won in their absence by Steaua Bucharest and PSV.

The odd thing about the United-Inter series is that United played a lot better in the San Siro. Last night I thought United did pretty well and were in general control of the game, but there were too many sloppy passes for my liking. In particular, I thought United were absolutely dreadful during the last 15 mins of the first half, in which we seemed to switch off, we couldn't string 3 passes together and our lack of concentration presented Inter with a couple of decent chances to score. Fortunately we got away with that period and were much more sharp and focused thereafter. I have to agree with raconteur about Zlatan Ibrahimovic, he didn't contribute much last night besides some wayward shooting and missing a great headed chance. He is an enigma, to put it kindly. I'll also echo the point others have made about how impressive the lad Giovinco looked on Tuesday night.

The draw looks interesting. Naturally in England we may wonder what will happen if all 4 English teams are kept apart, as it would raise the possibility of an all-English semi-final line-up, going one better than the 3 English semi-finalists of the last two seasons. Not that this is a remotely healthy situation, but that's a different story. The only teams to knock EPL sides out of the CL last season were other EPL sides, and I anticipate the main threat to United's crown coming from our own shores, which is something I said in August. Barcelona and Bayern Munich are dangerous too, and, while there are genuinely no easy ties at the QF stage, I think we must say that Villarreal and Porto would be the draws the others are hoping for.
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Mr. Pither
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And here I was expecting Simon to talk about Manchester United's Cup Winners Cup success in English clubs first season back in Europe! ;)

I too agree United probably played a better overall match at San Siro than they did at home but that has been a recent trend for the club in big matches in Europe, if I recall last season they played better in the semifinal at the Nou Camp against Barcelona than they did at home. Yet in both instances it was at home where they got the needed goal(s) to advance.

It was discussed a few posts back by Manzanares who talked about the ability of Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea to go for the jugular in these matches and that is what separated them from their rivals this week. I agree although Liverpool were far superior to Real Madrid and had advantages elsewhere. But that ability is what has I think made English clubs so successful in recent years in the Champions League. Bayern Munich and Barcelona are two clubs to watch out for but both also are a bit suspect defensively. Still any club would I think prefer getting either Porto or Villarreal at this stage. I would view them as more accessible opponents than the other 6 clubs left standing. Is the draw this Friday?
P-I-T-H-E-R ...as in Brotherhood, but with PI instead of the BRO and no HOOD
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robdog
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Johnbuildr,Mar 11 2009
06:22 AM
Mr. Pither,Mar 10 2009
11:55 PM
I agree with those saying it looks like Chelsea has that ruthlessness back again.  Helps to have a healthy Drogba and Essien too. ..................

An interesting game, where the home crowd seemed to have little positive effect on Juve and no negative effect on Chelsea. Save one or two Juve chants in the first half one would have been hard pressed to guess where the match was being played.
Drogba and Essien were the difference after all, weren't they?

This might be some of the fuel for Drogba & Essien scoring vs Juve. Monkey Chants???? Looks like that tactic back fired on juve fans :blink:
Supporter for FCK, San Lorenzo, Chelsea, Pachuca, Corinthians & Real Betis
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historyman
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Simon,Mar 12 2009
01:16 PM
It seems certain that there would have been further English wins in the late 80s if it wasn't for the ban, but I certainly don't lose any sleep over that as they would likely have gone the way of Liverpool. They were awesome in 86 and especially 88, for example, the years the CL was won in their absence by Steaua Bucharest and PSV.


I'll reiterate what Simon says - had Liverpool competed in Europe during the mid to late 80s they probably would have added to their European tally. The side that won the league in 1987/88 was without doubt one of the best in English football history.

I suppose this should really go in the History thread, but for the sake of convenience I'll post two You Tube links here. It will highlight just how wonderful a team Liverpool were at that time, even if we had to admit it through gritted teeth. :P

Liverpool Goal of the Season 1988

It wasn't just the skill of players like Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton, Aldridge and Hansen. Liverpool had the grit and determination too, as epitomised by Steve McMahon's contribution in Goal D.

This was probably their finest moment of the season, a 5-0 drubbing of fellow challengers Nottingham Forest.

L'Pool v Notts Forest 13/4/88
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Simon
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Mr Pither - oh, go on then! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwnaqlAU6rc

Yeah, Liverpool were absolutely immense back then, there were so many goals throughout that side as well. They didn't just have to rely on the strikers as anyone was capable of swapping positions and weighing in with the goals. Liverpool sides not even quie as good as that one were winning European Cups for fun just before the ban, and there were a few European Cup winners immediately thereafter (Steaua, Porto, PSV) who just weren't in the same league as Liverpool at that time. Not that I'd say that to a Liverpool fan, mind! Of course, by 89/90 the post-Heysel ban denied football fans the chance to see matches between that incredible Liverpool side and Sacchi's equally great AC Milan. What a prospect that would have been! Anyway, Liverpool not being on 8 or 9 European Cups is their own fault, after all it was their fans who got us banned.

Those were painful times for me, what with Liverpool being so brilliant and a transitional United being so crap. And speaking of United being crap, Mr Pither I think you got last season's semi-final legs mixed up. United were rubbish in the Nou Camp and then played better back at OT.

As for those Juventus fans, what was missing from the article was any mention of Juve promising their own investigation. It's one thing Chelsea saying they'll help UEFA out, but it would be much better if Juve announced themselves that they were really cracking down on these idiot ultras who spoil it for everyone else.
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Pepe
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I have been quiet because I was so glum after Real Madrid's poor showing against Liverpool. There was praise here for Mascherano and Xabi Alonso and rightfully so and while the whole team also shined you can not ignore the contributions the club's two biggest stars Gerrard and Torres made to the win either. Liverpool were so quick and precise with their passing and suffocating on defense it really was a super game from them but a miserable one for a Madrid fan like myself.

The Liverpool teams throughout the 80's were quite amazinga nd I enjoeyd looking at the highlights historyman provided. I always enjoy watching matches from the 80's. But don't just assume because somewhat weaker Liverpool teams won earlier in the decade that the stronger team in 1988 would have triumphed. Remember when we were discusisng Emilio Butragueno, he talked about how his greatest disappointment was Real Madrid's strong 1988 team which while in the midst of a 5 year consective league championship winning streak also eliminated Maradona's Napoli, Bayern Munich and one other strong team before falling on away goals to eventual champion PSV in the semifinals in one of those games where the ball just would not go in for Madrid. It takes some luck combined with skill to win competitions like the European Cup and it's modern successor the Champions League.
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Simon
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True pepe, but if there's any team that always gets plenty of luck it's those scouse b*****ds! :P
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valenciano
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Quote:
 
As for those Juventus fans, what was missing from the article was any mention of Juve promising their own investigation. It's one thing Chelsea saying they'll help UEFA out, but it would be much better if Juve announced themselves that they were really cracking down on these idiot ultras who spoil it for everyone else.


Well said.

Roma-Arsenal went to penalties, Juve-Chelsea was close and Porto-Atletico was even on aggregate but Porto pretty much controlled the game. What surprised me is other than these matches I named, the other Champions League games played this week where not that close. One club dominated the other. Bayern Munich, Bbarcelona and Liverpool were the best examples of this but even Manchester United and Villarreal were in control of their legs by early in the 2nd half. In other words other than a few exceptions the drama was taken out of these games.
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Loco4LosChe
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Quarterfinals:

Villarreal v Arsenal
Man United v Porto
Liverpool v Chelsea
Barcelona v Bayern Munich

Liverpool + Chelsea = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
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Winslow
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Well, I'm glad to see two EPL sides drawn against each other, no matter who they are or how boring it could be. Man U and Arsenal should be much happier with this draw, obviously.

The semifinal matchups will be Barca/Bayern v. Liverpool/Chelsea and Man U/Porto v. Villarreal/Arsenal. Hold onto your socks--see you next month!
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Don Balon
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Loco4LosChe,Mar 20 2009
02:48 PM
Quarterfinals:

Villarreal v Arsenal
Man United v Porto
Liverpool v Chelsea
Barcelona v Bayern Munich

Liverpool + Chelsea = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

It is amazing how often Liverpool and Chelsea get drawn to face each other. Almost as if it was destined to be in each Champions League! Chelsea with their third new coach in as many years in their European meetings is the one new thread this time around. It is difficult to see a favourite between the two clubs this year.

The Incredible Hulk and Porto play Manchester United who probably do not have good memories of facing them as the then Jose Mourinho led Porto eliminated them on the way to the 2004 title. But that was a long time ago in the world of modern football and Manchester United probably is thankful they avoided a fellow English club and either Barcelona or Bayern Munich.

But the Spanish league leaders did get Bayern, a team with a good record of eliminating Spanish clubs in Europe, just ask Real Madrid and last season in the UEFA Cup Getafe. To me this is the most interesting quarterfinal matchup.

Arsenal-Villarreal is a matchup of their 2006 semifinal won by Arsenal but I would say since then Arsenal are weaker and Villarreal stronger so this looks like an even match up too.

Semi-final matchups are:

Manchester United (ENG) or FC Porto (POR) v Villarreal (ESP) or Arsenal (ENG)

Barcelona (ESP) or Bayern Munich (GER) v Liverpool (ENG) or Chelsea (ENG)

Quarter-final matches played on 7/8 and 14/15 April

Semi-finals - 28/29 April and 5/6 May

Final - Rome May 27

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Mr. Pither
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I tend to agree with Don Balon that Barcelona-Bayern looks on paper the most attractive matchup. And as Winslow notes it also guarantees at least one non English semifinalist. The familiarity between Liverpool and Chelsea may make that a less appealing battle but a battle is what it should be between these two old rivals and it too should be one of those two legged ties which swings on an error by one side or the other.

I do think Manchester United has to like not only their quarterfinal pairing of Porto, a solid but not imposing club and if they get by them a potential semifinal with either Arsenal or Villarreal. I consider that to be easier than the other half of the draw with Barcelona/Bayern and Liverpool/Chelsea.
P-I-T-H-E-R ...as in Brotherhood, but with PI instead of the BRO and no HOOD
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Yogi
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Guus Hiddink is the one new wrinkle to yet another Liverpool-Chelsea matchup in Europe. Hard to pick a winner between thsoe two right now. Let us see how both clubs will be after their players come abck from next week's World Cup qualifiers.

Barcelona-Bayern is a mouth watering matchup but with Klose injured I think you have to give the edge here to Barcelona. Man United and Arsenal should I think be favored in their quarterfinal series. I agree though with Mr. Pither the half of the draw with Barcelona, Bayern, Liverpool and Chelsea is the more difficult one and may cause whomeevr emerges to be so beat up thta they won't be as effective as possible in the final.
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