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| Euro 2008- Group C (R); ROM, FRA, NED, ITA | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 22 2008, 10:53 AM (976 Views) | |
| historyman | Jun 13 2008, 10:23 PM Post #46 |
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I haven't seen consecutive, back-to back matches as good as those two for a long long time. A wonderful evening's entertainment, they were not only a joy to watch but totally fascinating in their ebb and flow. I can't recall watching a game where Italy had so many chances to score but just could not take them. Yogi made a good point about Luca Toni and the Italian tactics. Too many long balls pumped into the box for him, and some would argue that he's not that great at heading the ball. In fact during half-time on RTE's coverage of the match, one pundit referred to him as a "poor man's Peter Crouch"! :lol: One thing that impressed me about Italy was their tireless running, in particular Grosso, Zambrotta and Camoranesi (I love the fact that he's an 'oriundo' - a nice link to the Azzuri's past). I was watching the match with my brother in law - his first tournament - and he couldn't believe that Grosso and Zambrotta are nominally full backs! Great penalty save by Buffon to keep Italy in the tournament. I would much rather Italy progress than either France or Romania. And just when I was beginning to recuperate after that match, Holland and France came along to serve up another helping of excitement, drama and skill. Fantastic performance from the Dutch - who would have predicted that at the start of the tournament? As Pepe said, their football was beautiful at times. Yet for me the pivotal moment of the match was the chance that Henry had to equalise when clean through against Van Der Sar. A terrible lob, which if he had scored, would have brought the French right back into the game and could have changed the course of the contest. Then Henry did finally score from Sagnol's wonderful pass, before the Dutch raced up and scored within a minute! It was an unbelievable passage of play. After this game had finished I sat in my chair for a while just trying to get my head round what I'd seen. I think that we need a dull game just to calm us all down. Oh look, Greece are playing later today.... |
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| Pique | Jun 13 2008, 11:47 PM Post #47 |
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Like historyman I enjoyed both games played on Friday too. Romania gave Italy plenty of trouble and maybe Mutu missed that penalty because he didn't want the same fate to happen to him with Fiorentina that occurred with that Korean player who scored to eliminate Italy from World Cup 2002 only to then be released by his Italian club! Buffon and Lobont kept their teams in the game and the tournament. Something Coupet had trouble doing for France against Holland. I don't think he can be blamed for the Dutch goals but unlike Lobont, Buffon and really van der Sar, he didn't come up with any big saves for his team. Again historyman is right that Henry had a great opportunity to tie it at 1-1 but his attempted chip was awful. Still with the way Holland were playing it looked like they could turn it on whenever they wanted, especially after sending Robben and van Persie on. I don't see how any lover of football wouldn't enjoy watching Holland play. |
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Esas son las leyendas de futbol mexicano, En todo Mexico hay un Chiva hermano! | |
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| Don Balon | Jun 14 2008, 12:07 AM Post #48 |
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I wonder what van Basten will do in the knockout rounds regarding his lineup? Will he stick with the group who started these first two victories or will he try and include Robben and/or van Persie in his starting team? For now I would not disrupt a winning team and would use Robben and van Persie as super subs to do what they did last night against France, completely change the complexion of a match when they came in off the bench. Yogi, excellent point about Italy trying too many high balls in towards Toni. That isn't their ideal style of play and is not how Bayern Munich have effectively used Toni. He needs another forward to work along with. Right now Del Piero is playing too deep to be that tandem. Why didn't France use Benzema last night? |
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| Simon | Jun 14 2008, 02:56 AM Post #49 |
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Everyone's pretty well covered it all already. I'll simply echo that those were two gripping games of football. As historyman says, it was hard to predict before the tournament that Holland would be this good, especially as they seemed incapable of scoring goals and had a pretty low-grade defence. But they've given two magnificent displays of high-speed precision counter-attacking and just totally blown away the world champions and the world cup runners-up! If they wanted to be as cunning as their German neighbours often are, they could 'take it easy' against Romania and ensure that two dangerous opponents, France and Italy, crash out in the first round. Hopefully they won't do that and will instead look to maintain their momentum. The only concern about Holland's play so far is that it's all been based on devastating counter-attacking. They haven't yet been behind in a game and if and when that does occur they will need to show something a bit different to what we've seen from them in their first two games. |
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| badgerboy | Jun 14 2008, 04:47 AM Post #50 |
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Yes - again I have to echo earlier posts. Two excellent games yesterday. Holland have to be the "team of the tournament" so far - especially given their standard of opponent. It's worrying though that teams that start tournaments that well rarely win them. France & Romania also performed much better yesterday (or perhaps in Romania's case much more enterprisingly) than in their first game. I was pretty amazed that Benzema (& perhaps Nasri) weren't used by France in the second half. Gomis obviously did well in warm-up games but hasn't done anything so far to suggest he should be preferred to France's "stars" in this competition. I wouldn't expect Holland to "throw" their game against Romania - but then I wouldn't expect them to break their necks to win either. Why should they? That said their so-called "reserves" don't look too bad & if given a chance would surely be hungry to impress for a chance in later games. I hope Romania are good enough to win (mostly because France or Italy will still be far more dangerous opponents later & I'd rather the tournament was won by a team playing well from the start). Holland, Spain, Portugal & Croatia are my favourite candidates at the moment but I'm only too well aware that once we get to the KO rounds it's just (if not more) likely to end up Germany v Italy or Germany v France in the final. So - come on Austria (for the shock of the tournament - or indeed perhaps the shock of the last few) and come on Romania! |
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| Manzanares | Jun 14 2008, 05:53 AM Post #51 |
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The Dutch are I believe the youngest team in this tournament and when you combine that with the fact that players like van Nistelrooy, Robben and van Persie missed significant portions of the past club season you would think they should be pretty fresh now. They've certainly showed that so far. Holland would be smart to rest a few players against Romania but with their huge Orange Army of supporters and the talent available to them off the bench I would still expect no matter who plays for them that they'll be a worthy opponent for Romania. Team bickering has brought down past Netherlands teams but perhaps the fact that veterans like van Bommel and Seedorf, who have ahd their differences with the coach in the past, are not at Euro 2008 is making the team more cohesive? Raymond Domenech made many bizarre lineup and roster decisions two years ago in Germany but then he had Zidane to rescue him. He no longer has that available to him and his roster choices once more seem ill suited. Makes you wonder what David Trezeguet is thinking right now. |
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| shelsoccer | Jun 14 2008, 07:01 AM Post #52 |
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So, what happens if Holland beats Romania, 3-0, and Italy-France is scoreless? |
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| SuperEagle | Jun 14 2008, 08:52 PM Post #53 |
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Argggh, don't make our heads explode with all these possibilities of three way ties! But since all three teams (Italy, France and Romania) would be tied on goal difference, total goals scored and head to head record what else is left to separate them but a coin toss? Back to Friday's games, you are left scratching your head about both Domenech's and Donadoni's personnel decisions. But what about Holland and their quick and skillful play? I really liked what both Robben and van persie brought to the team when they came on as subs. But also note how well Sneijder is playing in midfield for the Dutch. Van der Vaart is good too but he's been overshadowed in my opinion by Wesley Sneijder, the best midfielder I've seen so far at Euro 2008. |
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| badgerboy | Jun 15 2008, 03:40 AM Post #54 |
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In the scenario outlined Italy would go through based on their having a higher UEFA coefficient than Romania. France would be out because they scored less goals in the head-to-head record than the other two. From the Wiki (& confirmed as correct from elsewhere): "Romania will advance if - they beat the Netherlands, or they draw with the Netherlands, while Italy and France draw, or they lose to the Netherlands by a margin of 3 goals or less, but not 0–3, while Italy and France play a 0–0 draw. Italy will advance if - they beat France, while Romania fail to beat the Netherlands, or they play a 1–1 or higher draw with France, while Romania lose to the Netherlands, or they play a 0–0 draw with France, while Romania lose to the Netherlands by a 0–3 scoreline or by more than three goals. (If Romania lose 3-0 and Italy draw 0-0, Italy qualify on the basis of UEFA coefficients) France will advance if - they beat Italy, while Romania fail to beat the Netherlands". |
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| Mr. Pither | Jun 15 2008, 11:36 PM Post #55 |
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I appreciate badgerboy listing the possibilities in Group C. While it may be hard to beat Group A's final day dramatics, it does look like we'll have a fun night ahead of us on Tuesday. Looks to me then as if France will have the smallest probablitiy of advancing as they must win and get help from Holland. Both Romania and Italy can still qualify without winning. So will Domenech finally play Benzema and Henry together? Many thought adidng the inexperienced Gomis to the team was a good move on the coach's part based on how he ended the club season but Gomis has looked out of his depth so far. Makes you wonder what Trezeguet or Cisse are thinking as they watch this all? |
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P-I-T-H-E-R ...as in Brotherhood, but with PI instead of the BRO and no HOOD | |
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| Winslow | Jun 16 2008, 04:18 AM Post #56 |
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Great point. Coupet wasn't at all effective against the Dutch, especially on the first goal. You can't just sit on your line when a corner lands in the middle of the goal box, but Coupet did just that and was justly burned by Kuyt. I agree with the others that France needs to play Benzema against Italy. |
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| libero | Jun 16 2008, 02:40 PM Post #57 |
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Italy and France have to trust Holland will be fair and look to beat Romania even if they do use some subs. Hopefully the Dutch will be more like Croatia and less like Portugal in playing their final group match with subs. I agree with the comments about Roberto Donadoni panicking once the tournament started. He had a good lineup in the warm up games and using Aquilani in midfield along with Pirlo gave the squad good ball movement. The tournament starts and Aquilani is nowhere to be seen! :angry: And I also agree about the temptation to put the ball in the air with Toni in the lineup. Keep the ball on the ground and mix it up with the occasional cross to Toni. As others stated Italy are not comfortable constantly playing the ball in the air offensively. If it were up to me this is the lineup I'd use tomorrow against France: ------------------Buffon------------------- Zambrotta--Panucci--Chiellini--Grosso -----Gattuso-----Pirlo----Aquilani------ -----------------Cassano--------------- ------------Toni-------DiNatale-------- Use Del Piero to sub in for either Cassano or DiNatale, keep DeRossi available if you need fresh legs in midfield to protect a lead and Camoranesi to add an offensive spark and Borriello if Toni is not effective. The fact both Italy and France need to win hopefully will make this an entertaining game. Hopefully Domenech maintains his bizarre personnel decisions too, he's the only coach at Euro 2008 who has made Donadoni look reasonable! |
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| Nkono | Jun 16 2008, 09:16 PM Post #58 |
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France has some lineup changes of their own planned for the game against Italy. It is likely that Thuram, Sagnol and Malouda will all sit this game with Benzema and Abidal returning to the lineup. It is even possible that Lassana Diarra will start instead of Claude Makelele. Some radical changes indeed. But changes which were needed. And as expected Patrick Vieira is still injured and won't be able to play. Why Flamini was not selected instead of the injured Vieira is something only Domenech knows. According to L'Equipe this is France's probable lineup: Coupet- Clerc, Gallas, Abidal, Evra- Toulalan, L.Diarra or Makelele- Ribery, Govou- Benzema, Henry I like that proposed lineup, it is more lively than anything we've yet seen from France in this tournament. And finally there will be Benzema and Henry partnering up front. Allez les Bleus! |
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| vince stravino | Jun 16 2008, 10:30 PM Post #59 |
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Italy is slippery and, as usual, will advance and make to the knock-out rounds. Just a note on the damage this tourney is doing to my system. The games are on 2am and 430am. At least, ESPN2 is showing them. I am in heaven when they are on here, but the rest of the day is crap. I am heading to Manila tomorrow with a patient and might just have to catch the night's games at the HandleBar in Makati. Anybody else in town, first drink is on me! |
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| Don Balon | Jun 16 2008, 11:55 PM Post #60 |
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I am just amazed at the varied locations posters on this message board are from, it really is an international group! Wish I could take you up on your offer Vince. As a Spain fan I am undecided on who I want Spain to face in the quarterfinals. My least favoured choice would be France as they just seem to always beat Spain. I think I'd rather play Romania than Italy just based on the potential Italy has to suddenly rise up. But Romania are a difficult team to play against and they won't let their opponents have much room. Both Italy and France are known for making last minute escapes so neither team can be counted out tonight. Germany-Austria was a little anticlimatic, I will be wishing the definition of Group C becomes more like the tension and drama we saw from Group A on Sunday. |
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