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Euro 2008- Group C (R); ROM, FRA, NED, ITA
Topic Started: May 22 2008, 10:53 AM (978 Views)
Nkono
Advanced Member
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Thierry Henry has not practiced since leaving with an injury against Colombia last week and against Romania it will be Anelka partnering Benzema in attack. The rest of the lineup should be the same as I posted several days ago. In theory this should eb France's easiest game of the group but Romanai are a team who play in blocks and have plenty of technique. They will not be an easy opponent.
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badgerboy
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Today I'm hoping for the first "shocks" of the tournament.

France to be held by Romania - with a Dorin Goian header from a corner giving the Romanians the lead with a late French equaliser ruining the "total shock".

And a narrow win for Holland over notorious "slow starters" Italy.

I think these results (certainly Holland & Romania both avoiding defeats in the opening games) are crucial to keep this group as "tough" as it looks at the start.
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Simon
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Romania 0-0 France

There's been disappointment with the standard of the games on the opening two days, but I was hopeful that we'd get more excitement today. Well, we still have Holland against Italy to come but Group C's first game was absolutely pitiful. In fact it was one of the worst games of football I've ever seen. Neither goalkeeper had a real shot to save in the entire match and neither side looked bothered trying to win it. BBC analyst Alan Hansen made me laugh when he said he'd been tempted to get up and walk out before remembering he was under contract!

Okay, Romania set up to defend, but as a top country France must have seen that a million times. The onus was on them to get through and to be honest they were staggeringly bad. Ribery was so poor, but at least he had some of the ball unlike the abysmal Malouda who might just as well not have been on the pitch. Anelka contributed nothing, so he was replaced by Gomis who was worse still. What amazed me throughout was the lack of urgency from the French. They made no effort to get up in Romania's faces, to chase them down, pressure them and force them into mistakes. Obtaining the 0-0 was just so easy for Romania. France just didn't have a plan B - only Domenech could explain why a back four and two defensive midfielders was necessary throughout the match when for large stretches Romania had no-one up front! What were France so scared of? They played the whole game like they were 2-0 up and didn't want to exert themselves.

I'm praying the Dutch and the Italians put on a show tonight...
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shelsoccer
Advanced Member
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Well, the Dutch did. After sneaking out of work to watch the game, I'm still not sure how RVN's opening goal was onsides. The post-game explanations didn't exactly clear up my confusion.

Fortunately, the game may have turned but wasn't determined by that goal. Holland was clearly superior.

Italy stretched van der Saar on a couple of occasions, but it was the Dutch who were much more enterprising.
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Simon
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Well I thought that second game was superb, thank goodness! Really exciting and skilful and loads of action.

I actually thought Italy played well and, strange as it may sound, they were one of the most impressive teams we've seen so far! But the Dutch were fantastic at times - their work rate was tremendous. They just never stopped running and were constantly breaking quickly and making angles for each other. Hard to nominate a man of the match as they all played well. Wesley Sneijder was excellent and his ball to put Van Nistelrooy in one-on-one with Buffon was the pass of the tournament so far. Orlando Engelaar was an absolute revelation. It's not often in this era of saturation coverage that a big team like Holland can field someone people know next-to-nothing about (or maybe it's my ignorance and I should speak for myself!) but he was exceptional. Yes, Van Nistelrooy's goal was a mile offside (any suggestion that Panucci was playing him onside has to be a joke, right?) but as shelsoccer said the Dutch were definitely superior. Their second and third goals were textbook examples of deadly counter-attacking. Holland have been head and shoulders the best team of the tournament so far.

Italy got on top in the second half and looked like they could score the goal that would maybe get them back into it, but Donadoni has plenty of thinking to do. For me, their 4-3-3 didn't work as they weren't able to get the numbers around Toni to support him, and Toni is pretty immobile and needs good service. I thought Del Piero and Cassano both improved the Italians when they came on. Also, the fears about Italy's defence appear well-founded. Okay the latter two Dutch goals were on quick breaks but I'd be alarmed at the way the Italians didn't pick up their runners and left both Sneijder and Van Bronkhorst free. But Italy can still qualify IMO, judging by the earlier Group C game!

Up until tonight Euro 2008 had been looking like a great advert for the Cricket County Championship, but maybe now we officially have lift off?
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Martin
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What a game between Holland and Italy, it was by far the best game of the tournament so far in my opinion. The Dutch were incredible, great speed, teamwork and technique and Sneijder's goal was the best I've seen up till now. Simon, you aren't alone, unless you follow the Dutch or Portuguese leagues, players like Engelaar and De Jong or Portugal's Joao Moutinho are relatively unknown players but they are all making a name for themselves now.

Italy may have been beaten as badly as I can ever recall happening to them but they still looked better than France and Romania. As Simon wrote, the French looked without any urgency at all.

I was listening to ESPN Deportes Radio and they had the former head of Mexico's refereeing commission, Edgardo Codesal, remember him he called that controversial penalty in the 1990 World Cup Final? They asked him about Van Nistelrooy's goal and he said the call was correct. That when Panucci was knocked off the field of play and was down injured, he, and the goalie, who was behind Van Nistelrooy, kept the Dutch forward onside. Apparently when a player is injured after being knocked off the field of play, he is counted in determining whether an opponent is offsides or not. The rule was set up Codesal said, to prevent a player from stepping off the field or feigning injury to put an attacker offside. So that the ref won't have to try and interpret the intent of the player going off the field, he automatically is considered being on the field whether he intentionally left the field or as Panucci did was inadvertenly injured.

I am not surprised that ESPN TV's analysts did not correctly state the rule but to be fair that is a situation I've never seen before.
Club Sportivo Desamparados
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enganche
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Thanks for the explanation Martin from Codesal, although his name brings back bad memories for me from 1990! Italy did have some chances to score and Del Piero and Grosso did lift the team when they came on but Holland were wonderful. A very impressive display. For their interest, and really for all of us neutral fans, let's hope they have not peaked too soon. Everyone on their team looked good and remember van Persie isn't yet fully in shape and they were missing Robben!

France and Romania were awful, there's no other way to put it.
Prefiero morir de pie que vivir arrodillado
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libero
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What can you say my high expectations for Italy were shot down by a wonderful display by the Dutch. Holland just looked quicker and hungrier in this game. The doubts expressed by some here about Italy's makeshift defense were well founded. But I also wonder about Donadoni's selection of Ambrosini instead of either DeRossi or my preferred choice Aquilani. Italy's midfield was completely outplayed. As mentioned here though Grosso and Del Piero did give Italy more of a spark. The biggest consolation of Italy's 3 goal loss? They still looked better than France and Romania! So there is still hope and a couple of lineup changes should improve the Azzurri's play. But well done to Holland.

I also appreciate the explanation on van Nistelrooy's goal too. I did not know that rule before.
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historyman
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After the turgid affair of the France/Romania game it was wonderful to see Holland and Italy play out such an entertaining and controversial match, which ended with Italy's heaviest defeat in 25 years. :o

The Dutch pupils taught the Italian masters a lesson or two in counter attacking football. Holland's second and third goals came after the Azzurri had almost scored at the other end.

The debate continues to rage after Van Nistelrooy's controversial goal, with the weight of opinion now seeming to back the referee's judgement that Panucci was playing Van Nistelrooy onside despite being off the field of play. However could he have got up after being knocked over by Buffon? Or was he deliberately staying down in order to try and gain an advantage? Maybe he'll comment on this in the next few days.

That's the problem with rules - there's always a crack in the system somewhere and sooner or later somebody will fall into it.

The tournament has finally exploded into life and let's hope that some of the caginess is now replaced by a determination to actually win the match.
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Don Balon
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Great play from Holland. They were very enjoyable to watch. libero points out something which I also noticed, how much faster the Dutch seemed than Italy. Maybe this Italian team is aging quicker than many thought? And as historyman said, the Dutch were so dangerous on those quick counters after Italy came clsoe to scoring. After how poor both France and Rumania looked, Italy should not give up hope of advancing but Holland have showed the world their wonderful qualities.

Here in Spain, they also gave an explanation similar to the one Martin provided from Codesal showing that the referee made the correct call on van Nistelrooy's goal.
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Pepe
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I think everybody was surprised by how dominant Holland were against Italy. It is not every day that Italy are ripped apart like they were yesterday. Holland were precise, quick and finished their chances. In the 2nd half they almost put it on cruise control. As somebody else remarked you just hope they haven't peaked too soon but their second haf relaxed play makes me think there is much more to come from them.

Italy's midfield was very poor yesterday and looked slow, that more than the defense looked the problem to me.

France-Rumania can most charitably be described as a bore.
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raconteur
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I don't know how else to put it but the Dutch gave Italy a footballing lesson. An incredibly dominant performance which exposed Italy's weaknesses. The defense did look uncertain and the midfield were too far removed from the forward line which prevented much link up play. Holland did, as noted here, look hungrier and quicker. A very good win for an impressive looking team.

As for van Nistelrooy's goal, apparently it was the correct call. UEFA clarified that today and gave the explanation that Martin provided us from former ref Codesal,

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-...uters&type=lgns

Quote:
 
UEFA general secretary David Taylor told a news conference the officials correctly interpreted Law 11 which relates to offside when Ruud van Nistelrooy scored after 26 minutes.

He stated that Christian Panucci played him onside although the Italian defender was off the pitch at the time.

“The goal was correctly awarded. Not many people, even in the game, and I include the players, know this interpretation (of Law 11),” Taylor said.

He conceded, however: “The Law itself does not deal with this situation directly at all,” but said that referees universally interpreted it in the way that the officials did on Monday night.

He said he had every sympathy with the wider footballing public for believing the officials called it wrong but said that Swedish referee Peter Frojdfeldt and his assistant Stefan Wittberg were absolutely correct in their interpretation.

Taylor told reporters: “Even though the Italian defender (Christian Panucci) was off the field because of his momentum, he is still deemed to be part of the game and is therefore taken into considersation as one of the last two defending players.

“As a result Ruud Van Nistelrooy was not nearer the opponents’ goalline than the second last defender and therefore could not be in an offside position.”

‘VERY UNUSUAL’

“This is a widely known interpretation of the offside law among referees but is not generally known by the wider footballing public and indeed many people in football,” he said.

“That is understandable because incidents like this are very unusual.


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alabastergremlin
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I didn't get to see the game so I'll leave the comments to those who did. However, I just say the controversial goal. The first thing I thought of was this board. I can't find it now, but wasn't there a thread somewhere in one of the folders regarding the offsides rule and this EXACT type of situation?

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Merengue
Administrator
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That was fun to watch, unless you are an Italy supporter of course. Just beautiful play by Holland. Quick, skillful ball movement, tenacious ball winning all capped by Sneijder's fantastic goal. Great finish by him but also just excellent build up.

I appreciate the explanations on van Nistelrooy's goal. As the UEFA official quoted by raconteur noted, not many people knew about that rule, fortunately the ref, and his linesman did!

If France and Romania insist on playing such emotionless football, hopefully their time at Euro 2008 will be short!
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Simon
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Premier League refereeing chief Keith Hackett is in agreement as well, in this interesting short piece on the goal:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...008/7445476.stm

As that article points out, the Dutch were clearly amazed that the goal was given. Ruud didn't really start celebrating until about 20 seconds after the goal, he kept flashing looks at the linesman as if he couldn't believe his luck!

Good for the officials for implementing the rule correctly. Bad for FIFA that apparently the fans and even the players didn't know about the rule!
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