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Champions League
Topic Started: Aug 13 2007, 02:00 PM (4,091 Views)
Simon
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When the group stage draw was made I thought Liverpool would cruise through that group, so their early struggles surprised me. I would say they're the strongest team in Group A by a wide margin, and now that they've pulled their socks up with big wins over Besiktas and Porto I find it hard to imagine them doing anything other than winning in the south of France. With Porto at home to Besiktas, it's likely they will still win that group and force Liverpool into 2nd place. But Liverpool seem to excel in European football, last season at the same stage they knocked Barcelona out and unfortunately (from my point of view) I can see them eliminating another big name in the second round this season.

Some of our Real Madrid fans might be feeling slightly nervous not to have qualified yet, but I'm sure they'll be alright at home to Lazio. I'm very impressed with Olympiakos, they've finally learned how to compete away from home. Lazio are at a low ebb but going away to Rome and winning is still impressive. I hope they can qualify and help break up the England, Spain, Italy cartel that the CL becomes in the new year.

Good win for Celtic but they're far from out of the woods yet. Their head-to-head record remains inferior to Shakhtar, which means that if they lose away at Milan while Shakhtar win at home to Benfica then the Ukrainians go through. To say the least, it's a very plausible scenario.
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Pepe
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rosarino,Nov 28 2007
06:58 PM
Real Madrid paid how much for Pepe?  The centerback not the poster here!  It was money not well spent.  He's a waste and without Cannavaro (injured), Madrid's defense was vulnerable against Bremen's quick attackers.  Plus the usually reliable Van Nistelrooy missed an easy one, he later scored a much more difficult goal but that miss proved costly.  Still you have to think Madrid will still qualify, they now just have to pay more attention on the final day at home vs Lazio.

No offense taken! Madrid obviously paid way too much money for Pepe but I'm still hopeful he can become a solid central defender. He's put in some pretty good games since his injury problems but yesterday he was poor and so was Christoph Metzelder alongside him. Both looked very awkward in this game. I think Madrid's defense has played best when Cannavaro and Heinze have been in the central defense.

As the TV announcer said when van Nistelrooy missed that easy chance, 9 out of 10 times he converts those, this just happened to be that 10th time. Madrid will still qualify and should still finish first in the group but these past few games hopefully will be a signal to the team to pick up it's play. But give credit too to Werder Bremen, they were obligated to win and produced a good game in response. Now they need to go to Greece and beat Olimpiacos. It won't be easy but if they can reproduce their form from this game they'll have a chance.

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There definitely be some good matchups in the final day of today's groups.  Chelsea just hammered Rosenborg with an inspired Drogba. But I liked how quickly Chelsea played the ball and how they looked to take the game to Rosenborg from the opening whistle.  It is the type of aggressiveness you like to see from a visiting team and their strategy paid off.  Liverpool secured their win late as porto held on to 1-1 for a long time but besiktas' win in that group really shows how evenly matched thsoe 4 teams are despite Liverpool's previous big win over the Turks.


I too was impressed with Chelsea and their attitude in this game. Direct but skilled play and Drogba is such a deadly penalty area forward. Chelsea have settled in well to their new coach. This may be a team to be careful of next spring in the Champions League.
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Merengue
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I do think this Werder Bremen game was a wake up call for Real Madrid. I'm with pepe the poster that it showed Schuster that the defensive combination of Metzelder and Pepe doesn't work. You can play one of them but putting two tall immobile centerbacks on the field together is not a good idea but it was forced upon Schuster by injuries to Cannavaro and Heinze.

Rosenberg, the Swedish forward for Bremen had a very good game, did you see him breaking away from Gago on the 2nd goal? It looked like Gago was running carrying a piano on his back trying to catch the fleet Rosenberg who crossed the ball for Sanogo to nicely finish!

Like others here I am not too concerned about Madrid's prospects in this group, I think they'll do what it is needed at home versus Lazio. It is once the knockout rounds begin that I'll be more concerned with Real Madrid's form. After impressive wins yesterday the decisive Olimpacos-Werder Bremen game looks fascinating. Although Olimpiacos are at home, if Werder Bremen can play like they did yesterday plus get Diego back then they will be very dangerous.

Fernando Torres continues to impress for Liverpool. So now comes the question of whether Benitez will now send him to the bench as part of the coach's infamous rotation policy?
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TCK
Liverpool FC till I die
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I reckon Rafael Benitez is going to stop his rafa rotation. I think this because near enough 5,000 of our fans went on a mass rally supporting Benitez against the US Owners. So...I think he owes us something...
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LIVERPOOL FC!
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Manzanares
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Reform for the Champions League beginning in 2009, the final will now be played on a Saturday night instead of a Wednesday (damn there goes my excuse to leave early from work on a Wednesday!) but more importantly the competition will be reformed to allow more teams from the smaller nations to enter the group stage.

22 teams will qualify automatically much as they currently do,

15 teams from the bigger European nations, i.e. Spain and Italy's 4th place team, Portugal's and Germany's 3rd, Greece's 2nd, etc., will compete for 5 spots in the group phase

The chamions from Europe's smaller countries will also compete for 5 places in the group stages

So this is meant to cut down on the Sevilla's, Marseille's and Sporting Lisbon's of the tournament and add teams like Red Star Belgrade, Anderlecht and Widzew Lodz to the event.

I don't have a problem with this change, the quality teams will still be there and if it helps out some of the teams from smaller countries, so be it. Look what Rosenborg are doing this season.
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enganche
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I like this new format, it keeps the powerful teams and the same tournament we've seen for the past 10 years but also gives a better chance to a few teams from smaller countries to make it to the group stages. The Polish, Austrian or Danish champions may not start off doing well but give them some time, and the added revenues from this tournament and maybe they can start building a team who could pull off some surprises. This year's Rosenborg is a good model to follow.
Prefiero morir de pie que vivir arrodillado
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Hector
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Maybe it is a good idea to let the final qualifying team from the larger countries play against similarly situated teams to make the Champions League group play. Valencia were the last team to make it from Spain this year and their play has not revolutionised this year's competition. same could be said for Schalke, the final German team to make the event. Let teams like these playoff against one another and have the better ones emerge and then let a Belgian, Serbian or Swedish champion in. It gives the tournament more diversity of teams. As enganche said the best teams, the ones who make the knockout rounds so exciting, will still be there.
iPuerta amigo, Sevilla esta contigo!
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shelsoccer
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I think there is a danger in this reform, namely squeezing out some of the second- and third-place teams from the "second tier" leagues (e.g., Holland, Portugal, Scotland, Greece, Turkey, even France).

We could end up with an unbalanced league, comprised mostly of sharks and some token minnows without many tuna in between. It wasn't too long ago that we had a Porto-Marseille final. As unlikely as that final was at the time, it may be even more unlikely in this format.

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gaviota
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shelsoccer,Dec 1 2007
05:36 PM
I think there is a danger in this reform, namely squeezing out some of the second- and third-place teams from the "second tier" leagues (e.g., Holland, Portugal, Scotland, Greece, Turkey, even France).

We could end up with an unbalanced league, comprised mostly of sharks and some token minnows without many tuna in between. It wasn't too long ago that we had a Porto-Marseille final. As unlikely as that final was at the time, it may be even more unlikely in this format.

That is an excellent point shelsoccer. I always believe in the axiom don't fix what is not broken and the Champions League has been going on very well, in fact it is a huge success both commercially and sportingly. It doesn't require fixing and shelsoccer's point is legitimate, this new format may get rid of a lot of the middle level teams in the group stage, those like AEK Athens, Benfica, Lille who without being title contenders are always candidates to make the second stage and who can pull off an upset of a Manchester United, Milan or Real Madrid.
CHAMP13NS
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El Profe
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With Milan playing next week in Japan in the World Club Cup their groups' Champions League games have been moved up one week. Today Milan host Celtic while Shakhtar Dometsk are home to Benfica. Milan are already qualified and Celtic need either at least a draw or for Shakhtar to not win in order to join Milan in the 2nd round. Benfica are eliminated but could still make the UEFA Cup if they beat Shakhtar in the cold of Ukraine so there should be plenty to play for in thiese games.
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Merengue
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Thank you for the reminder El Profe, I did not realzie the game ahd eben moved up one week. Time to set the recorder and check it out when I get back from work. Celtic have a horrible road record but with Milan's equally poor home record, being already qualified and with their minds likely on Japan, this is a golden opportunity for Celtic to wrap up a qualification spot. Shakhtar Donetsk has talented players but their last minute loss at Celtic last week has taken control of their fate out of their hands.
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Winslow
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Tuesday's special scores...
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Group D: AC Milan 1, Celtic 0; Shakhtar Donetsk 1, Benfica 2.

So Celtic goes through to the second round with the Rossoneri in spite of losing at the San Siro, as the Ukrainians coughed up two early goals at home and couldn't recover. Inzaghi scored Milan's only goal, passing Gerd Muller to become the all-time CL goal scorer. Whee!

With the win, Benfica continues in the UEFA Cup, while Donetsk is SOL.
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rosarino
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I tried watching some of Milan-Celtic but it was painful. Milan without trying much were easy winners. Celtic may have a good home record but they are a limited team. I wouldn't pick them to get out of a group in the Copa Libertadores (I know comparing apples and oranges). My point though is anybody in the 2nd round would love to be paired with Celtic even if the espn 2 commentators are in love with that team!

Shakhtar Donetsk also gets the collapse of the tournament award, weren't they unbeaten after 2 games?
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Yogi
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I was curious to see if Ancelotti would use Dida in this game after his horrible play acting when these teams met in Glasgow. Smartly he did not play Dida but his sub Kalac had little to do. As rosarino wrote, Celtic showed very little and Milan always were in control without really exerting themselves. I looked upon the game as a public training match before heading out to Japan.

I'm glad Benfica won and claimed the UEFA Cup spot as that will mean more European opportunities for Freddy Adu.
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Simon
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I partly agree with what's been said but I can think of quite a few teams I'd rather play in the CL second round than Celtic. I didn't see last night's game but they're a decent side and their record shows that it's very tough to draw a match with them in Glasgow and virtually impossible to beat them there. If they could ever ally their impeccable home form with a more solid away record they would be even more of a proposition. I think this run of losing away matches has become a psychological thing now, and it's surely one that they can overcome. It should be remembered that they've knocked Liverpool and Barcelona out of Europe in recent years and were only eliminated by AC Milan in extra time last season. As to how they'd do in the Libertadores, I couldn't even speculate. I can still envisage them winning most matches against South American sides at Parkhead!

One area to note is that Shakhtar's collapse (winning their first two games, losing their next four) means that they go out along with Slavia Prague, Steaua Bucharest, Dynamo Kiev and CSKA Moscow, so that all eastern European involvement is at an end. In fact only one of those teams will even advance to the UEFA Cup, and even that is only because Slavia and Steaua were placed in the same group. If their mauling at Arsenal is anything to go by, it's easy to imagine they would have finished bottom of most other groups. A lot of money has been spent at some of these sides in recent years, and Shakhtar and CSKA have several big money, big name foreign stars. I wonder why they are still not competitive? Maybe their domestic leagues are too weak to allow them to get the constant big game workouts that most of their CL rivals enjoy?
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