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Champions League
Topic Started: Aug 13 2007, 02:00 PM (4,085 Views)
Simon
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rosarino,Mar 4 2008
08:26 PM
More diveristy among the quarterfinalists is good for the tournament. Sorry English, Spanish and Italian fans but that's the way I see it.

I agree with that 100%.

Had Sevilla won that shoot-out last night, we could potentially have had a quarter-final line-up featuring 7 teams from England and Spain and just one other team from elsewhere. I really don't see that as a healthy scenario and I was in favour of Platini's proposals to limit the domination of the big 3 leagues, although ultimately he had to water down his plans.

On Messi, I'm not sure that there is a way to prevent hamstring injuries, but in time players can learn how to manage them. Ryan Giggs constantly used to suffer hamstring problems and would be out for at least one spell each season with torn or pulled hamstrings. He says that he learnt in time to recognise the warning signs, such as a tightness of the hamstrings, at which point he'd mention it to Ferguson and would be subbed out or rested from a game. He even said recently that he hasn't run 100% flat out in ten years, he always holds something back to protect his hamstrings. I don't know which bit of that is more extraordinary, the fact that he could conquer his playing instincts in that way or the fact that he's still among the fastest and most dangerous wingers in the game when holding something back! He also, like most top players, used to run a fleet of sports cars but says that he's benefited from sticking to the one car because he gets used to the clutch and biting point and doesn't need to adapt to different cars all the time.

Perhaps Messi will turn out like this?
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Hector
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I am naturally saddened by Sevilla's exit. I can say that this was our first Champions League and that the team lost by the roulette that is penalties but that is little consolation. This was a winnable game but Sevilla's recent problems of defending on corner and free kicks popped up once more. Both Fenerbahce goals came off of those type of plays as the defense were not able to clear the ball away. This has been a problem under Manolo Jimenez' direction for the past two months with Sevilla both home and in Europe. I believe all but 1 of Fenerbahce's 5 goals in the two games came off of set pieces.

I was also disappointed to see Luis Fabiano, as in form a striker as any in Europe now, taken off when the score was 3-1 in favour of Sevilla and a midfielder Renato put on. Not long after Fenerbahce scored to make it 3-2 and send it to extra time but Sevilla were then forced to play without it's top forward because of the poor tactical decision.

It was fun while it lasted playing in the Champions League, now Sevilla will have the time to concentrate on the league and try to get back next year. But this loss hurt.

iPuerta amigo, Sevilla esta contigo!
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Martin
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Simon
 
He also, like most top players, used to run a fleet of sports cars but says that he's benefited from sticking to the one car because he gets used to the clutch and biting point and doesn't need to adapt to different cars all the time.


Hahaha, well I'm sure that's a problem we can all relate to! Poor Giggs had to stick to using only one of his high performance sports cars! But Simon's point about Giggs learning to recognize the signs of possible hamstring problems is an important one and hopefully Messi will learn that too as he gains experience. We all need to learn how to "listen" to our body whether you're a high level professional or a weekend kickaround player. I do know that Messi was held out of last weekend's league game against Atletico Madrid because he was feeling some pressure back there. If that is the case then either the club's medical staff or maybe even Rijkaard himself has some answering to do as to why Messi remained on the field late in a game which had already been decided.

For what it is worth about 10-12 years ago I know I had some recurrent hamstring problems when playing but I started swimming and felt the leg kicking from that strengthened my hamstrings. I don't know if this is a prescribed method to strengthen one's hamstring but it sure worked for me and I've never had a problem with that injury since.
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Merengue
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This diversity of teams from different countries other than Spain or England is all well and good unless it effects your own club! So Simon with Manchester United, Hector with Sevilla and myself with Real Madrid aren't/weren't hoping their teams would lose to opposition not from Spain or England of course! But the point about broadening the quarterfinalists countries of origin is a good one and with Porto and Schalke playing today, there is guaranteed at least one more club in addition to Fenerbahce from outside the trio of England, Spain and Italy in the quarterfinalis.

Impressive play from Arsenal last night. They did take the ball away from Milan and that is something you don't see often. Arsenal has a tendency offensively though to try and walk the ball into the net so it was good that Cesc switched things up and let shoot from afar. Good things can happen when you shoot the ball! Cesc's increase scoring this season has been an important addition to his game.

Manchester United-Lyon was a cagey game but Cristiano Ronaldo won it with a bit of inspiration. His goal wasn't just pouncing on a loose ball inside the penalty area, it required quick feet to clear space for himself and quick thinking to avoid the charging Coupet in Lyon's goal who was tyring to cut down on his angle. A very well taken goal in my view and it ultimately proved the difference in a pretty even two match series.

Messi did, as Martin related, sit out last weekend's games because he was suffering from what they call in Spanish a muscle overload (sobrecarga muscular) in the back of his leg so he did realize there was a problem there. So the question of why he was still in at the dying moments of a game which had already been determined is a good one. Whether it was the player, coach or medical staff someone among them needed to realize it would have been wiser to sit down rather than risk what occurred, reinjuring his hamstring.

On to today's games and a really fascinating one between Madrid and Roma. Roma have done well recently in the Champions League at Madrid, getting some draws there and that is all they'll need in this one to advance. No van Nistelrooy, Robben or Sneijder but Robinho will play. I think Madrid has to be careful of Roma's quick counters especially with Mancini.
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Martin
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Merengue,Mar 5 2008
10:24 AM
Impressive play from Arsenal last night.  They did take the ball away from Milan and that is something you don't see often.  Arsenal has a tendency offensively though to try and walk the ball into the net so it was good that Cesc switched things up and let shoot from afar.  Good things can happen when you shoot the ball!  Cesc's increase scoring this season has been an important addition to his game.



This is what impressed me too about Arsenal's play yesterday. They compacted the field against Milan with their midfield pressing and it forced Milan into an unusual amount of turnovers. I liked how Wenger put Cesc right on Pirlo so defensively he pressured Pirlo when he was on the ball and offensively he made Pirlo work on the other end by running at him. In fact on Cesc's goal, he got past Pirlo and then had the room to line up his shot which proved to be the eventual game winner.

Quote:
 
Manchester United-Lyon was a cagey game but Cristiano Ronaldo won it with a bit of inspiration.  His goal wasn't just pouncing on a loose ball inside the penalty area, it required quick feet to clear space for himself and quick thinking to avoid the charging Coupet in Lyon's goal who was tyring to cut down on his angle.  A very well taken goal in my view and it ultimately proved the difference in a pretty even two match series.


Quick feet and even quicker thinking on Ronaldo's part as Merengue said. I know Simon has brought this up before but it is extraordinary how many goals Ronaldo, a winger, has scored this season. Off the top of my head I can not recall another player who primarily plays on the wing who has scored as often as Ronaldo has this season. There wasn't much separating the two teams last night but in big matches you expect your big time players to step up and that is what Cristiano Ronaldo did.


Quote:
 
On to today's games and a really fascinating one between Madrid and Roma.  Roma have done well recently in the Champions League at Madrid, getting some draws there and that is all they'll need in this one to advance.  No van Nistelrooy, Robben or Sneijder but Robinho will play.  I think Madrid has to be careful of Roma's quick counters especially with Mancini.


That is my concern too Merengue. With Sergio Ramos suspended, Schuster will use Miguel Torres at right back and he'll have his hands full with Mancini. But this game will provide a test of how much Robinho and Pepe effect Real Madrid's play. Despite the absences Merengue listed, Robinho and Pepe will start and I've been touting how essential they were to Madrid's successes earlier in the season. We'll find out what they can do today.
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Winslow
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And Wednesday's second legs...
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.
.
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Chelsea 3, Olympiakos 0 (3-0 aggregate).
Porto 1, Schalke 0 (1-1 aggregate; Schalke wins 4-1 on PKs).
Real Madrid 1, Roma 2 (2-4 aggregate).

So no surprises in London, as the Blues walked to the quarterfinals after taking an early lead on Ballack's open header, then adding a Lampard rebound 20 minutes later and a Kalou goal just after the break. Poor defending all three times from the Greeks.

Things were tight at the Bernabeu until late in the second half, when Pepe got his second yellow card to put Real down a man. A short time later, Taddei put Roma ahead with a spectacular header from the top of the box. Raul tied the match a few minutes later, but Roma added another from Vucovic in injury time to complete its run to the quarters.

Porto looked to be in big trouble when Fucile was sent off with eight minutes to go, but a few minutes later Lisandro Lopez converted to force extra time. That led to nothing, but then Neuer (who had been saving Schalke's bacon all night) saved two penalties to ensure a happy ride home to Gelsenkirchen.
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Manzanares
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Roma played a smart game tonight in beating Real Madrid. They knew that without van Nistelrooy Madrid didn't have a penalty area force and they let Madrid have the ball but put up a solid defensive line anytime they came near the Roma goal. When Roma got it they passed the ball neatly and efficiently and looked dangerous on the break and weren't afraid to shoot from distance.

It was looking like a tense finish when Pepe picked up his second yellow, not long after Taddei scored on a powerful header and that seemed to finally shake the drowsiness out of Real Madrid as Raul scored shortly afterwards and while they were moving forward looking for the 2nd goal that could force overtime, Vucinic got them on the counter. There was no fluke or luck involved, Roma played a solid game and deserved the win.

Hmm, a German team went to penalty kicks and won? Who would have thought that? Neuer was excellent and sure made a name for himelf tonight.
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SuperEagle
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Quote:
 
This is what impressed me too about Arsenal's play yesterday. They compacted the field against Milan with their midfield pressing and it forced Milan into an unusual amount of turnovers. I liked how Wenger put Cesc right on Pirlo so defensively he pressured Pirlo when he was on the ball and offensively he made Pirlo work on the other end by running at him. In fact on Cesc's goal, he got past Pirlo and then had the room to line up his shot which proved to be the eventual game winner.


Wenger did have an excellent game plan against Milan and the Gunners effectively neutralised Milan's attack. Maybe Kaka wasn't 100% but aside from a few of his typical long runs with the ball, he wasn't much of a factor in the game and neither was Pato. The Arsenal defense played extremely well and the midfield as many have noted did well in forcing Milan into mistakes. For a young team this was a very important win against a battle tested team. I don't know if Arsenal can go on and win the tournament but yesterday's win brought a lot of happiness to Gunners everywhere. Getting Van Persie back healthy should only help especially now that Eduardo is out.

No surprise about Chelsea's easy win over Olympiakos and Ballack's return to form should worry their future opponents. Manchester United, as described here, were tested by Lyon but they too came up big when needed. Defensively it is difficult to break through the Red Devils rear line and with Ronaldo, Rooney and company in attack they are rarely short of ideas there. It has been an excellent Champions Legaue so far for the English clubs with Liverpool on the verge of making it 4 of the final 8 from England.
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historyman
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Real Madrid always know how to celebrate their birthday in style! :P

Today is the anniversary of their founding - March 6th 1902. Instead of celebrating their quarter final spot in the CL, they are now nursing yet another hangover. I didn't get to see the highlights of their match, but from some of your comments it sems that Roma thoroughly deserved their victory.

I'm sure that many of you remember the infamous Copa Del Rey final in 2002, when Real expected to crown their centenary by winning the trophy in front of their own fans in honour of their birthday. They promptly lost 2-1 to Deportivo! :D

The Premiership clubs are marching onwards. It was a wonderful victory for Arsenal over Milan. I'm not sure how this match was portrayed in other countries, but in the UK the media were billing this contest as a 'youth v veterans' clash. Not entirely accurate, but no doubt in the next few days we'll be drowning in a flood of articles about Arsenal's golden youth. Nevertheless, they are a very entertaining side to watch.
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Merengue
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historyman,Mar 5 2008
10:53 PM
Real Madrid always know how to celebrate their birthday in style!  :P

Today is the anniversary of their founding - March 6th 1902.  Instead of celebrating their quarter final spot in the CL, they are now nursing yet another hangover. I didn't get to see the highlights of their match, but from some of your comments it sems that Roma thoroughly deserved their victory.

I'm sure that many of you remember the infamous Copa Del Rey final in 2002, when Real expected to crown their centenary by winning the trophy in front of their own fans in honour of their birthday.  They promptly lost 2-1 to Deportivo!    :D

The Premiership clubs are marching onwards. It was a wonderful victory for Arsenal over Milan. I'm not sure how this match was portrayed in other countries, but in the UK the media were billing this contest as a 'youth v veterans' clash. Not entirely accurate, but no doubt in the next few days we'll be drowning in a flood of articles about Arsenal's golden youth.  Nevertheless, they are a very entertaining side to watch.

Ouch historyman, I was down already after Madrid's loss to Roma and you had to go and remind me of one of the most painful Madrid defeats in recent years! That loss to Depor in the 2002 Copa del Rey Final really hurt. The worst possible way to celebrate the team's 100th birthday.

On to this game against Roma. My friend Manzanares makes a point several of us made while watching the game, that Madrid played without much passion for most of the game, as if they were up 2-1 from the first leg and trying to protect that margin instead of being down by that score. Only when Roma scored did Madrid play with the passion you'd have expected from the start. Roma defended well and their counters always looked dangerous with their fine passing. Madrid on the other hand were inprecise with so many passes. In the Spain thread I discuss Guti's inconsistent play and ever since he shined in Madrid's 7-0 win over Valladolid a month ago, he's been playing poorly. With the injuries to van Nistelrooy, Robben, Saviola and Sneijder, Madrid just didn't have many options off the bench and while they had the bal,l other than Baptista's shots they didn't threaten Doni in the Roma goal that often. Roma played better in this game than they did in the first leg and were the deserved winners over the two legs.

This is the 4th straight year where Real Madrid have gone out at the octave finals of the Champions League. For a team of Madrid's history and ability that is simply unacceptable.
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rosarino
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Manuel Neuer of Schalke was incredible against Porto and the amazing thing is he's only 21! The next rising goalkeeping star. Porto played a pretty good game but they ran into a goalie at the top of his game. And once the game went to penalties, I think everybody knew it was inevitable the German club would win irrespective of Neuer's play.

Roma might be able to put away the nightmares they ahd from the trouncing Manchester United gave them last season. This team played like it learned it's lesson and they defended well and caused Real Madrid plenty of problems on the break. I can see why Merengue is disappointed but this wasn't a game where Roma won by chance, they outplayed Real Madrid and did it at the Bernabeu.
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Pepe
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Quote:
 
My friend Manzanares makes a point several of us made while watching the game, that Madrid played without much passion for most of the game, as if they were up 2-1 from the first leg and trying to protect that margin instead of being down by that score. Only when Roma scored did Madrid play with the passion you'd have expected from the start. Roma defended well and their counters always looked dangerous with their fine passing. Madrid on the other hand were inprecise with so many passes. In the Spain thread I discuss Guti's inconsistent play and ever since he shined in Madrid's 7-0 win over Valladolid a month ago, he's been playing poorly. With the injuries to van Nistelrooy, Robben, Saviola and Sneijder, Madrid just didn't have many options off the bench and while they had the bal,l other than Baptista's shots they didn't threaten Doni in the Roma goal that often. Roma played better in this game than they did in the first leg and were the deserved winners over the two legs.


This was a troubling loss for Real Madrid. As others commented Roma outplayed them. True Madrid had injuries to some key players but with the money they spent this offseason you'd expect them to have more options available off the bench. While Roma went to their bench and had a player like Vucinic available, who is the player who turned the game in Roma's favour, Madrid didn't have anyone to turn to for offense on the bench. That is troubling to me.

Merengue I think you are on to something in commenting about how Madrid played too relaxed for most of the game. I can't explain the reason for that, were they too overconfident with a one goal disadvantage coming home? If they were then that is ridiculous as this was always going to eb a difficult game and Roma ahve had a good record going against Madrid in recent years.

Chelsea are a very difficult team to score against. Mourinho may be gone but the defense he installed there is still playing well and I get the impression Chelsea are the type of team few clubs remaining in the competition would look forward to playing against. I suppose you could say that about just about every team left, you aren't going to get pushovers in the quarterfinals but Chelsea look like a very tough opponent in a home and away series.
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Yogi
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raconteur,Mar 4 2008
10:13 PM
As a Milan fan I am disappointed by their loss but there's no doubt Arsenal deserved the win.  They controlled the midfield and it got me to thinking that maybe Milan's plan with Seedorf not available to sacrifice a midfielder and play two forwards Inzaghi and Pato plus Kaka ended up tilting the balance in favor of Arsenal in the midfield.  While you'd think Milan would be more offensive with two forwards plus Kaka in fact because the midfield was outnumbered Milan's attack was less effective.  Give Arsenal credit as they were able to win the ball in midfield and put Milan under pressure.  Fabregas' shot may have been speculative but he had the time to line up his shot and he placed it well.

I never like to hear about players getting injured so I was disappointed to read of Messi's latest injury setback.  Hopefully this offseason Barcelona will put him on a physical regimen to strengthen his hamstrings.

You bring up an interesting point raconteur. Seedorf's stability and ability to link the midfield with the forwards is important but Pirlo can also do that but as discussed here Cesc Fabregas did a great job on him keeping him busy defending and pressuring Pirlo when he had the ball. Milan can be effective playing with 2 forwards and Kaka but on Tuesday Arsenal's tactics took Milan out of their comfort zone. They were the better team. It has been a long time since Milan went out this early in the Champions League and I was hoping Paolo Maldini's final Champions League season would end on a happier note but Milan just weren't good enough.

I thought Roma did to Real Madrid a lot of what Arsenal did to Milan. Their pressing and defensive solidity kept Madrid from settling in the game while Roma looked quicker and livelier in attack. Vucinic was the difference for Roma, his run on the end line led to Pepe picking up his 2nd yellow, he was involved in the buildup leading to the first goal by Taddei and scored the 2nd in injury time getting in between Cannavaro and Casillas. Vucinic doesn't get much publicity but he's often been an offensive spark for Roma.
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gaviota
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I don't have much to add to what you've already discussed about Roma's elimination of Real Madrid. Roma played a very good game and Madrid just weren't sharp. You aren't going to win in the Champions League playing like that. This wasn't Murcia or Mallorca they were playing but a good Roma team.

Neur the goalie from Schalke was incredible. I agree with whoever it was who said he looks like the next great goalkeeping prospect. Great reflexes and pretty good command of his penalty area. At 21 he'll only get better. Schalke doesn't look as good as the other teams who've advanced to the quarterfinals but with a goalie in form like Neur they'll have a chance no matter who they are drawn against in the next round.
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rosarino
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Tuesday Inter hosts Liverpool in the final game of this round of the Champions League. Liverpool goes to Milan up 2-0 from the first leg and their counter attack led by Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard should be dangerous on the road. Inter always find ways to fall in Europe despite their domestic dominance but a quick Inter goal and this could become a very interesting 2nd leg. For the viewers in the US remember with the US' accelerated change to daylight savings time, this game will be on one hour later than the typical Champions League match start time.
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