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Euro 2008 Qualifying
Topic Started: Mar 22 2007, 08:27 AM (1,998 Views)
valenciano
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Hungary had a team I think in the late 80's which went far in the UEFA Cup called Videoton but I have never heard anything else about that club since then. Good point about it not just being football but also other sports where Hungary has not excelled. Hungary has become the elast athletic minded country in eastern Europe!

As shelsoccer remarked, Belgium is another nation whose standard has fallen recently. Not anywhere to the depths of Hungary but a nation who you could almost guarantee would qualify for every World and European championship ahsn't been to a major tournament since 2002 and now are really struggling in their group. I don't have an explanation for that either and Belgium have even expanded their player base with the wave of African immigrants to their country.
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Gunners
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valenciano,Jun 16 2007
10:01 PM
As shelsoccer remarked, Belgium is another nation whose standard has fallen recently. Not anywhere to the depths of Hungary but a nation who you could almost guarantee would qualify for every World and European championship ahsn't been to a major tournament since 2002 and now are really struggling in their group. I don't have an explanation for that either and Belgium have even expanded their player base with the wave of African immigrants to their country.

Belgium's decline is tough to explain. It's perhaps understandable that the Belgians couldn't immediately reproduce players of the caliber of Luc Nilis, Marc Wilmots, etc. But the Belgians have gone from perennial World Cup and European Championship qualifiers to complete no-hopers. Somewhat amazingly, the Belgians were just beaten easily by Finland and are now tied for 5th in their 8-team group, 7 points back of 4th-place Finland, level on points with Armenia (who have a game in hand), just 1 point ahead of 7th-place Kazakhstan, and just 2 points ahead of last-place Azerbaijan. How the mighty have fallen!
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Simon
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Interesting discussion.

I can bring a bit of information to the table.

Videoton actually eliminated Manchester United in the UEFA Cup semi-finals in 1984/85, the run that Valenciano refers to. It's very well remembered here for Videoton's total lack of ambition. They basically put a solid mass of 10 outfield players around their penalty area both home and away. United won the home leg 1-0 but conceded an early free-kick goal in the away leg. The Hungarians stuck to their policy of time-wasting and blanket defence to take the tie to penalties, which they won 5-4. I don't think we'd ever seen a team waste time looking for penalties before, although Red Star Belgrade pulled a similar trick against Marseille in the 1991 European Cup final. Although they played in the 1986 World Cup, didn't they lose 6-0 to the Soviets? It seems they couldn't really compete on level terms even by that stage. Our Real Madrid contingent will remember their team beating Videoton in the two-legged final, although they lost in the Bernebeu. Videoton are still going, but are known these days as Fehervar. They're actually among Hungary's better sides, although this isn't saying much. My brother and his mates had a short city break in Budapest a few months ago and while they were there they watched a game between Fehervar and Vasas, another of Hungary's more famous clubs (I think Albert used to play for them?). He said the standard of the game was staggeringly bad, like a sunday pub game.

Ferencvaros are still the country's biggest club, but played last season in the second division, having been relegated by the Federation due to their large debts. This is part of a 'get tough' approach by the Hungarian FA against what's seen as endemic corruption and financial mismanagement in Hungarian football. But I think they were pinning a lot of hopes on getting hosting rights to Euro 2012, along with Croatia, and obviously that's now gone up in smoke for them. I can't explain why a country with such a good record in the past (remember they also reached the 1934 World Cup Final) has declined so badly. Just anecdotally, I've known a couple of Hungarian lads in the past and neither had any interest in football, but I can hardly be sure if that's typical of apathy towards the sport. Attendances are very poor in the Hungarian League, but then attendances are often poor in Italy and Brazil as well, so that doesn't necessarily tell us too much!

Finally, a note on some of these Hungarian players as they seem to gravitate to England. Zoltan Gera is a very talented midfielder who played well in the Premiership for West Brom. I thought someone would have signed him when they were relegated, but they haven't and as they lost in the play-off final they are due for another season in the second tier. Tamas Priskin looked a decent striker for Watford this season, but of course they have also gone down. One possible bright spot is young star Krisztian Nemeth, who I believe has just signed for Liverpool. Just don't expect Hungary to be a major power again any time soon!
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shelsoccer
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Thanks, Simon. Doesn't get to the root of my question -- doesn't seem that anyone has an answer -- but very informative and enlightening.
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enganche
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I was thinking of this discussion of Hungary's decline as I was watching the U-20 World Cup semifinal between two of Hungary's neighbors Czech Republic and Austria. Here are two countries with I believe similar populations as Hungary yet they are producing some talented youth players. While at the senior level Austria may have struggled recently in qualifying for major championships but we all know the Czech Republic, since the fall of communism has probably been consistently among the top 8 teams in Europe during that time. It still doesn't answer the question posed here about Hungary's decline but is more evidence that it's neighbors are developing quality players while Hungary remains in obscurity.
Prefiero morir de pie que vivir arrodillado
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enganche
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It was only one game and a friendly at that but look what Hungary did this week, a 3-1 win over Italy! Will this win give them the confidence they've needed? Let's see what they do next month when the games count for real in qualifying.

Belgium dealt Serbia's hope a serious blow of qualifying for Euro 2008 with a 3-2 win over the Serbs. Finland beat Kazakhstan 2-1 while Portugal surpisingly needed a Cristiano Ronaldo goal to draw at Armenia. Finland has played a game more but their win and Portugal's tie and Serbia's loss moves Finland into 2nd place in the group behind group leaders Poland.
Prefiero morir de pie que vivir arrodillado
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Pepe
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Portugal are still in good shape with a game in hand and home matches coming up but Armenia proved to be a tougher than expected opponent. But Serbia losing against Belgium is a big loss for them as enganche says and really damages their qualifying chances. Since I have little sympathy for their coach Javier Clemente I am not shedding any tears!
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Simon
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Time to move onto the next round of qualifiers. This is the most exciting (and tense) time, really. We're on the final straight and there are no second chances. A lot of countries are in a win-or-bust situation which means that many of these games of of great importance.

Saturday's fixtures (I think all times are BST):

European Championship Qualifying

GROUP A: http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/stan...group=2630.html
Serbia v Finland, A, 19:15
Portugal v Poland, A, 21:00

Two big games here, as the top 4 play each other. Portugal are 4 points behind group leaders Poland but have a game in hand. If the Poles can upset the Portuguese they must feel that they'll be virtually qualified, but clearly Portugal will be big favourites to win. Serbia lost to Belgium last month, which really complicates matters for them. Interestingly, Finland are in 2nd spot at the moment, 3 points ahead of the Serbs. A surprise win for the Finns could be fatal for Serbia's chances. Azerbaijan v Armenia has been cancelled, I've no idea why.

GROUP B:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/stan...group=2631.html
Scotland v Lithuania, B, 15:00
Georgia v Ukraine, B, 16:00
Italy v France, B, 19:50

Italy against France is the biggest game in any group tomorrow. I was in France the week before last and the French are really gearing themselves up for this one. But Raymond Domenech is banned from the touchline after some undiplomatic but nevertheless uncomfortably accurate comments about 'cheating Italians'. Whoever loses this game will really have to look over their shoulder, as Scotland and Ukraine will be favoured to win their matches. It's a key moment for French football. Historically, they haven't really sat at football's 'top table' because of their habit of disappearing for 15-20 years after each good side they produce. Very good in 1958, in the mid-80s and in these last 8 years (despite 2002), but inbetween times they very often fail to qualify for tournaments or go out in the first round. Now that the Zidane generation has gone, will France struggle for the next 15 years? My guess would be that they have enough good young players to break this cycle, but if they lose in Milan they may yet have an uncomfortable time qualifying.

GROUP C:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/stan...group=2632.html
Hungary v Bosnia-Herzegovina, C, 15:00
Malta v Turkey, C, 18:30
Moldova v Norway, C, 19:00

Greece take a backseat this weekend, 5 points clear at the top of the group. Bosnia, Turkey and Norway could all move to within 2 points of the European champions, but all three have away matches. I would say that Bosnia have most to fear from their game.

GROUP D:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/stan...group=2633.html
San Marino v Czech Republic, D, 19:15
Slovakia v Rep of Ireland, D, 19:30
Wales v Germany, D, 19:30

Wales will have another full house at one of the world's best stadiums - it's a shame they haven't got a team to match the surroundings. Germany are 5 points clear and should be all but qualified after this game. The Czechs and the Irish are fighting for 2nd place. The Czechs will certainly beat San Marino, which puts pressure on the Irish not to slip up. Slovakia are clinging on to the coat-tails of the Czechs and Irish but really you must think that they have to win to retain an outside chance of qualifying.

GROUP E:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/stan...group=2634.html
Russia v FYR Macedonia, E, 16:00
England v Israel, E, 17:00
Croatia v Estonia, E, 19:30

Each new morning seems to bring a fresh addition to England's casualty list, which means the England team could have an unfamiliar look to it. Emile Heskey is even back in the squad for the first time in 3 years, and is likely to start up front with Owen (apparently Heskey is in at Owen's request, as they had a decent strike partnership together). No Neville, Lampard, Hargreaves, Beckham, Rooney or Crouch and Gerrard is also doubtful. Not a great way to go into a must-win game. I'm pretty fearful for England's chances at the moment. In fact, England's first game of the Rugby World Cup is on at the same time, against the USA. I may be more tempted to watch that! Croatia and Russia both have reasonably straightforward-looking home games.

GROUP F:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/stan...group=2635.html
Latvia v Northern Ireland, F, 17:15
Sweden v Denmark, F, 19:30
Iceland v Spain, F, 21:00

Group F remains too close for comfort, and has the look of a four-horse race. The Danes can be knocked out of that race if, as expected, they lose in Stockholm to their arch-rivals Sweden. How they must still be cursing that idiot that ran on to the pitch and attacked the ref in the earlier fixture between the two! It's important for both Northern Ireland and Spain to win their games as there are harder tests for both further down the road.

GROUP G:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/stan...group=2636.html
Luxembourg v Slovenia, G, 16:00
Belarus v Romania, G, 17:00
Holland v Bulgaria, G, 19:30

A three-way race at the top of Group G, and the game between Holland and Bulgaria is a very important one. A Dutch win puts them 2 points ahead of the Bulgarians with a game in hand. A Bulgarian win puts fresh air between the countries. Romania will probably hope for a draw in Amsterdam, but they need to win in Belarus to keep the Dutch and the Bulgars at bay for now.
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SuperEagle
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Simon, that is an excellent preview of this weekend's games in Europe. Reading posts like this confirms why I decided to join this message board. I don't think there is a better place on the internet to discuss football.

After this next week with games on Saturday and next Wednesday the qualifying picture may become more clear but there are so many groups which are still so close. I think right now only Germany, Greece and Poland are looking like good bets to qualify. The rest of the nations have little room for error over the next few months.

I read today that Gerrard likely will start in midfield for England but as Simon wrote the injury list they have is enormous. Israel have been a tough opponent lately, I believe they missed out on qualifying for Germany 2006 only on goal difference. Croatia have an easy game tomorrow and can expand their group lead but don't ever count out Russia. Any team coached by Guus Hiddink you know will be very hard to defeat.

Like England, Germany have a long injury list and playing Wales in Cardiff won't be easy but Germany look to be on the verge of having a solid generation of players coming into their national team and right now they look like one of Europe's best teams.

The rerun of the World Cup Final does look like the day's best game and there again both teams have notable absences. But with Ukraine and Scotland still on their heels neither Italy or France can afford to slip up. With Barthez retired and Coupet hurt we'll learn how deep France are at goalie. This game may be Roberto Donadoni's major test of whether he has what it takes to manage Italy.
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Manzanares
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Excellent work Simon, my thanks to you for providing it for us. I am of course most interested in Spain's group and their game at Iceland. On paper it sounds like a winnable game for Spain but traveling to Reyjkavik isn't easy and Iceland has had a pretty decent record lately in making things difficult for Spain. Denmark are really up against it playing at Sweden but Northern Ireland has a huge match for them at Latvia. In the past you'd say that was the sort of game the Irish wouldn't win but with the way they are playing they should come in well motivated. But I wonder what effect Lawrie Sanchez leaving as their coach will have?

The other group I'm interested in is Group A with Poland, Portugal, Finland and Serbia. If Poland ties at Portugal they are all but qualified. but Portugal are such a dangerous team and playing at home you have to say they're the favorites. SuperEagle talked about how difficult it is to defeat a Guus Hiddink team, which is true, but the same applies to a Luis Felipe Scolari coached squad and combined with the talent at his disposal I think Portugal will do well this weekend. Javier Clemente fell off his bike and broke 4 ribs and his collarbone this week. Javi, you have to stop drinking and pedalling! But he'll still be coaching Serbia this weekend as they need to beat Finland at home I think they'll do that.
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Martin
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Include me in the Simon appreciation list. You did a great job of setting out the situation in each group. Of course you know that now means we expect you to do the same next week and for the ensuing qualifying matches too!

Italy v France is the marquee matchup. Italy took the World Cup Final, France won last year's qualfier in Paris so this is the decider. With the way France defend though it is extremely hard to beat them in a 90 minute game. Vieira after some injury doubts is expected to start but I wonder if France will decide to play their rising young playmaker Sami Nasri in a game like this? What better way to find out if he has what it takes at this level? Italy are looking for a partner for Cannavaro in defense and Panucci may get the call. But how will they cope with the speed of Henry, Ribery and Govou? I am really looking forward to this match.

Portugal v Poland is, as mentioned here, another key game this weekend. Poland are riding high in the group and beat Portugal last year in Poland so this is Scolari's chance for revenge. In such a close group, Portugal needs to win while Poland would be ecstatic with a draw I'd think. But as always with Portugal you wonder who will score the goals? Ronaldo, Deco, Simao and/or Quaresma will buzz around the field but who can put the chances they'll create away?

I agree with Simon that Croatia and Russia should win their games tomororw which will really put the pressure on England to win. Owen and Heskey at forward? A blast from the past there. Israel know how to defend but in attack they don't have much weight.
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rosarino
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Martin,Sep 7 2007
10:56 AM
Include me in the Simon appreciation list. You did a great job of setting out the situation in each group. Of course you know that now means we expect you to do the same next week and for the ensuing qualifying matches too!

Italy v France is the marquee matchup. Italy took the World Cup Final, France won last year's qualfier in Paris so this is the decider. With the way France defend though it is extremely hard to beat them in a 90 minute game. Vieira after some injury doubts is expected to start but I wonder if France will decide to play their rising young playmaker Sami Nasri in a game like this? What better way to find out if he has what it takes at this level? Italy are looking for a partner for Cannavaro in defense and Panucci may get the call. But how will they cope with the speed of Henry, Ribery and Govou? I am really looking forward to this match.

Portugal v Poland is, as mentioned here, another key game this weekend. Poland are riding high in the group and beat Portugal last year in Poland so this is Scolari's chance for revenge. In such a close group, Portugal needs to win while Poland would be ecstatic with a draw I'd think. But as always with Portugal you wonder who will score the goals? Ronaldo, Deco, Simao and/or Quaresma will buzz around the field but who can put the chances they'll create away?

I agree with Simon that Croatia and Russia should win their games tomororw which will really put the pressure on England to win. Owen and Heskey at forward? A blast from the past there. Israel know how to defend but in attack they don't have much weight.

Add me to those appreciating Simon's work in compiling the qualifying status in Europe. With so many groups to keep track of, it isn't easy. But definitely appreciated.

I've been reading the press in both France and Italy and Domenech's comments about a game which took place 8 years ago are an unnecessary attempt to try and destabilize Italy before the game. Why didn't he bring this up before? UEFA's one match suspension is appropriate. Not only Domench but others from France such as Lamine Diarra have also been talking tarsh in the press but Italy, to their credit, are not taking the bait. Maybe it helps not having Materazzi available for this game! :lol:

Italy are supposed to use a 4-1-4-1 lineup, rather conservative for a home match if you ask me with the following expected to start: Buffon- Oddo, Cannavaro, Barzagli, Zambrotta- DeRossi- Camoranesi, Gattuso, Pirlo, DelPiero(DiNatale)- Inzaghi.

France are expected to start:Landreau- Clerc, Thuram, Abidal, Evra- Ribery, Makelele, Vieira, Malouda- Anelka, Henry.

Martin asked about Italy's ability to defend France's speed, well with Anelka and Henry starting up top and Ribery and Malouda on the wings, we'll find out soon enough. But another question has to be whether France's makeshift defense can do the job in this game? It really is a fascinating match.
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Yogi
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rosarino
 
Italy are supposed to use a 4-1-4-1 lineup, rather conservative for a home match if you ask me with the following expected to start: Buffon- Oddo, Cannavaro, Barzagli, Zambrotta- DeRossi- Camoranesi, Gattuso, Pirlo, DelPiero(DiNatale)- Inzaghi.

France are expected to start:Landreau- Clerc, Thuram, Abidal, Evra- Ribery, Makelele, Vieira, Malouda- Anelka, Henry.

Martin asked about Italy's ability to defend France's speed, well with Anelka and Henry starting up top and Ribery and Malouda on the wings, we'll find out soon enough. But another question has to be whether France's makeshift defense can do the job in this game? It really is a fascinating match.


I make my comments on Italy's lineup in the Italy forum but I'll briefly summarize them here, I'm a little surprised Camoranesi is starting since he's begin the new year on Juventus' bench. I also would prefer to see Quagliarella in the starting lineup but his shooting ability may be a good option off the bench.

As an Azzurri fan I am concerned about Ribery who is playing well at Bayern and is such a dynamic and creative force now. Anelka and Henry at forward together will definitely put pressure on the defense but if Italy can control Ribery and Malouda they'll deny service to the forwards. I don't see Vieira and Makelele doing much creative work. This should be an intriguing game to watch. Join Raymond Domenech and watch it from a far for the good spectacle it should be!

I agree with the other commentators that Portugal-Poland and England-Israel are two other matches tomorrow which look extremely interesting. Both Portugal and England are up against it tomorrow. Anything less than a win seriously dents their qualifying hopes.
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xeneize
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All this expectation and Italy-France ended up being a dud of a game. 0-0 and neither team really threatened the other as they both neutralized each others' attack. The tie helps France a lot more. Scotland beat Lithuania 3-1 but Ukraine could only tie 1-1 at Georgia. Scotland-Italy next month is looking like a qualifying decider while France are now in the driver's seat in this group.

Portugal's goalie made a late error as Poland pulled out a 2-2 tie at Portugal. Finland recorded a shock 0-0 tie at Serbia so Portugal still are in reasonable good shape of qualifying while Poland can start booking their tickets now.
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Merengue
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Poland, Germany, France, Romania and Holland were the teams who with yesterday's favorable results are looking very good now for qualification.

Poland's 2-2 tie at Portugal with that late goal boucning off the post and Ricado the Portuguese kepper, may have been fortunate but it eases Poland's route and makes Portugal's much more difficult. Although as xeneize wrote with Finland tying Serbia it is the Finns and not Serbia who are looking like Portugal's main rival for the 2nd spot now.

Group B is really getting interesting after Scotland's win and the draws involving France, Italy and Ukraine. The French look to me in control heading into this week's home game versus Scotland while Italy at Ukraine now becomes a vital game for both those countries' hopes. France-Italy was a bad edged game, a lot of physical play and not much pretty football from either team but with the defenses both teams have I guess that isn't much of a surprise. But Scotland have put themselves into the fight for a qualifying place.

Croatia got two goals from their Brasilian born player Eduardo da Silva,, who now plays with Arsenal in their 2-0 victory, Russia won 3-0 over Macedonia but it wasn't as easy as the score indicates as Russia's goalie was sent off when it was still 1-0 and a penalty awarded but the backup goalie saved the PK and Russia then got two late goals for the 3-0 win. England won by the same score at home over Israel as Wright Phillips and Owen were among their goalscorers. Good to see Owen back and finding the net. That sets up a huge game on Wednesday when England hosts Russia.

Real Madrid's Sneijder and van Nistelrooy scored in Holland's 2-0 win over Bulgaria while Mutu scored 2 as Romania won 3-1 at Belarus. Romania and Holland now take control of their qualifying group and the two spots up for grabs.

While in the increasingly tight Group F, Latvia beat Northern Ireland while Denmark tied at Sweden and 10 man Spain did the same at Iceland. This has the look of a group coming down to the last games and any of the contending teams who lose from here on out will be in a difficult situation.
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