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| Platini UEFA President | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 26 2007, 08:21 AM (545 Views) | |
| Merengue | Jan 26 2007, 08:21 AM Post #1 |
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Michel Platini won election as UEFA president deposing Lennart Johansson who'd been in office for many years. It probably was time for a change but from what I've read Platini's positions are essentially the same as Johansson's with one major exception, Platini wants to reduce the maximum amount of clubs from any one nation in the Champions League to three. From a fairness standpoint to the lesser nations of UEFA that may make sense but from a fans view you want to see as many good teams a spossible and the 4th place team from England, Spain or Italy is going to be better than the champions of Slovakia, Norway or Belarus. They already have their chance to qualify for the Champions league as it is. |
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| Manzanares | Jan 26 2007, 06:14 PM Post #2 |
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If Platini insists on limiting the big nations to 3 teams he'll have a fight on his hands and possibly even the threat again of a breakaway Super league. I'm thinking he made those comments for political reasons in order to get the votes of the smaller European nations. I'd be curious to see who ended up supporting him in this election. |
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| Merengue | Jan 27 2007, 08:13 AM Post #3 |
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You're probably correct Manzanares about why Platini made those comments on limiting the teams in the Champions League and about the possibility of having a revolt on his hands if he insists upon his proposal. I read where due to TV contracts the earliest any such change could be implemented would be 2010 so he has time to negotiate this with the "big" nations and hopefully he'll back down on such a change. |
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| Roosevelt | Jan 28 2007, 05:44 AM Post #4 |
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I'm always for 'fairness', and it' true it's seems (though maybe it just *seems*) like the money/talent is being concentrated in fewer and fewer clubs/leagues, so I appreciate the POV of the little guy, but honestly, the current system for distributing berths seems pretty equitable to me. To see what too much 'fairness' can do, look no further than Germany-San Marino in Euro '08 qualifying. Who wants to see that? (And, FWIW, the Champions League doesn't let the winner of San Marino's first division into the competition at all!) |
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Another day in June, we'll pick eleven for football We're playing for our lives, the referee gives us f**k-all | |
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| Martin | Jan 28 2007, 07:54 AM Post #5 |
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Platini was/is one of my favorite players of all time but he will be mistaken and will have a big fight on his hands if he insists on cutting the Champions League spots to the bigger countries. Myself and many others tune in to see 3rd or 4th place teams teams like Liverpool, Valencia and Roma participate in this tournament rather than Ararat Erevan, HJK Helsinki and Dynamo Minsk. It sounds great to be 'equitable' about these CL spots but as Roosevelt correctly points out these smaller nations do get a chance to playing in the qualifying rounds. By the way doesn't the champs of San Marino and Andorra play in the early qualifying rounds or are they sent directly to the UEFA Cup prelims? The Champions League has become a worldwide sensation due to it's format and the chance to see the best players and teams go head to head. There is still the chance for FC Thuns and Lokomotiv Sofias of the world to advance to the group stage and play against the big boys and as Porto's and Liverpool's recent wins have proven the less fancied teams can still compete with the absolute giants of Europe. If it isn't broke, don't fix it is a refrain Platini should remember about the CL. |
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| Roosevelt | Jan 29 2007, 06:59 AM Post #6 |
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They do now.
http://www.uefa.com/news/newsid=501193,printer.htmx |
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Another day in June, we'll pick eleven for football We're playing for our lives, the referee gives us f**k-all | |
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| Merengue | Jan 29 2007, 10:55 AM Post #7 |
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Timely information there Roosevelt. I think it right to give every UEFA member country the right to have at least one team in the Champions League preliminary rounds but as Martin correctly points out, people watch the Champions League to see the big teams from England, Spain and Italy going against one another and also against the top Dutch, Portuguese, Greek, Turkish and Russian teams. Nobody except their own fans want to see HJK Helsinki or Skonto Riga unless they've earned the right to compete in the competition by winning some preliminary games. |
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| Simon | Jan 30 2007, 05:12 AM Post #8 |
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I'll actually go the other way on this one. I understand what you're saying about seeing the top teams go up against each other, but I think it's a great shame that modern European football is such a closed circle, with only a few crumbs from the top table making their way down to the poor unfortunates below. Yes, the lesser lights have a chance to play through Qualifying Rounds to get to the Group Stage, but the odds are deliberately stacked against them. Fans of clubs from certain countries really have no chance whatsoever of seeing a Juventus, a Manchester United or a Barcelona roll into town to play them. As well as the famous games played by United against Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus, Ajax, AC Milan etc in the past we've also played HJK Helsinki, Pecsi Munkas, Spartak Varna, Hibernians (Malta), Waterford (Ireland) as well and really it's hard to imagine circumstances in which we could play those clubs again. Furthermore, in the past we've seen teams like Malmo, Panathinaikos, Club Brugge, Partizan Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest and Red Star Belgrade in the final itself, the latter two even won it. These days by the time you get beyond the Group Stage most of these teams and the countries they represent are gone, victims of various rich fat cat clubs and their big squads. If Platini wants to limit the involvement of England, Italy and Spain to 3 clubs each I wholeheartedly support him in that, and in fact I wish he could go further. Let's give these disenfranchised countries and clubs a chance to have a fair go at the big boys, preferably over two legs. I think the story has been one of greedy G14 clubs wanting to guarantee big annual income and indemnify themselves against the chance of that income being threatened by a little and inconvenient thing such as defeat on the field of play. If Platini can end the days of us getting past Christmas with only four or five countries still involved in the Champions League, I'm all for it. |
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| Merengue | Jan 30 2007, 12:23 PM Post #9 |
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Simon, you're a hopeless romantic when it comes to football! This is the 21st Century and while it is true the final rounds are contested by the teams from the biggest countries plus occasionally guests from Portugal and Holland, the truth is the expected giants don't do as well as you'd expect. Ok, Milan in 2003 and Barcelona last year were big clubs who won the title but many outsiders like Porto, Monaco, PSV, and even Liverpool and Arsenal, big clubs who weren't expected to get that far, have been making it to the final stages of the Champions League. And they made it there on merit as the way the tournament is set up you see the best teams getting through. I don't want the Champions League to return to it's old Cup format and have the likes of the Faroe Islands champions playing Real Madrid. Ok it may be good for the handful of fans in the Faroe Islands but it isn't good for everyone else and in this day where sport has become a big business you have to make the fans happy whether it is those in the stadiums or the millions more watching on TV. Let the Faroe Islands champions win their way through to playing the better teams. Don't fix what isn't broke. The Champions League is a great success not only financially but also on the field of play and I want to see the best players and teams going at each other not part time amateurs playing a disinterested big club. |
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| Simon | Jan 30 2007, 04:01 PM Post #10 |
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Which is fine as far as it goes, but by the 'best teams' we're necessarily talking about the richest teams from the richest countries. There aren't really any shocks in the Champions League any more. The recent performances of Porto, Liverpool and Arsenal don't qualify IMO. These are all big clubs from major nations, the latter two from the richest league and the former two are previous winners of the trophy. Smaller teams aren't given a chance. Football may be big business but first and foremost it's a sport and sport is supposed to be fair and competitive. A majority of European countries have no direct interest in the Champions League by the time it reaches the Group Stage, let alone the knockout rounds, where it's a members only party for the rich few. Or is that me being too romantic? There've been a few threads on SAG comparing the CL unfavourably with the Libertadores Cup and I see where they're coming from. Maybe I'm comparing apples and oranges but the field is far more open in South American football and indeed everywhere that's not Europe! Pretty well everyone that takes part has a genuine shot at reaching the final rounds or even winning it. That strikes me as a healthier state of affairs than we see in Europe. The fact that Platini has won this vote says to me that people in the less 'looked after' European nations are tired of being on the outside looking in. If you look long term, no good can come of keeping the big teams and players away from the smaller ones. If these other countries are not involved, they'll lose interest. If you and your mates take a ball down to the local pitch for a game but end up on the sidelines just watching the big boys playing, how long before you get bored and take your ball home and find something else to do? All I'm saying is, let's give these teams a game. If the 'best teams' really are that good, they'll end up in the final rounds anyway. And if teams from Sweden, Ireland, Hungary, Belgium and yes even the Faroes beat some of the big teams, well good luck to them. |
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| rosarino | Jan 30 2007, 05:33 PM Post #11 |
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I am absolutely in agreement with Simon here. 3 teams is enogh from the big countries. It isn't as if they're being excluded from the tournament as there still will be plenty of teams from Spain, Italy and England. I was one of those arguing at the previous message board that the Copa Libertadores is more entertaining than the Champions League as in Europe there is so much money involved now that the teams end up getting too conservative in the knockout rounds. You watch, this year while there will be some matchups that look great on paper the teams will end up being so scared to commit an error that they'll play too conservatively and the games won't be interesting. In South America sure teams from Argentina and Brazil usually dominate but that didn't prevent Once Caldas of Colombia from winning the title a few seasons back or Libertad of Paraguay making last year's semis or an unfashionable Brazilian team like Atletico Paranaense from making the finals in 2005. The entertainment value in the Libertadores is for me greater than in the European tournament. Now adding more teams from Norway, Switzerland or Poland and taking spots away from Engalnd, Italy and Spain may not exactly make the Champions League more entertaining but it will be more equitable for these mid level European nations. They will then get the same opportunity clubs from Peru, Ecuador and Venezuela get in the Copa Libertadores. The chance to compete with the big teams. And that will make the tournament more just. |
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| Manzanares | Jan 30 2007, 08:44 PM Post #12 |
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This is all politics, Platini has a political debt to these medium sized and smaller countries and has to say he wnats to cut back the bigger nations Champions League berths. But when push comes to shove I think money will talk and the powers that be, i.e. TV interests, and the clubs, will ensure the system stays relatively as is. |
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| enganche | Jan 31 2007, 12:26 AM Post #13 |
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Sure it is all politics but I agree with Simon and rosarino. Three's enough teams from any one country. Like rosarino I too prefer the Libertadores to the Champions League as the European one has been spoiled by the big money at stake and it effects how the teams play. Making teams from the mid level European nations have to go through a long series of elimination matches while exempting the 3rd and 4th place finishers from the big nations just doesn't seem fair to me. Platini's proposal isn't that drastic. All he is saying is limit the tourney to 3 teams per country. It isn't as if he's going as far as eliminaing the basic structure of the Champions League and return it to a straight elimination tournament from the beginning. |
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| Roosevelt | Jan 31 2007, 06:03 AM Post #14 |
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I dunno, I've been thinking about this, and what it boils down to for me is that while the Champions League as currently set-up certainly reflects the disparity between the wealthy, powerful clubs/leagues and everyone else, it doesn't cause them, and I don't think limiting the top three leagues berths in the CL is going to have any effect on the money pouring into those leagues. Were he proposing something really radical---vowing to work for repeal of the Bosman decision, or demanding that all member FAs distribute their domestic TV money equally amongst their league's clubs, (I know, I know...neither of which is under Plantini's control) then, sure, you'd see the concentration of talent/money lessen from where it is now. His goals [!] may be admirable, but he's just tinkering at the margins and, I'd argue, hrting the quality of the CL in the process. Though the other thing I guess I'm curious about is who are we talking about helping here at the expense of the haves, the have-somes? the have-nones? When I look at the results from last summers 1st qualifying round I think it's pretty hard to make the case that any of those level teams/leagues deserve any more representation than they already have. Virtually every one of the 1st round winners didn't merely lose at the next level (to those getting to bypass the 1st round), they lost badly. I just can't see not letting Liverpool in to allow more B36's or Metalurgs into the competition. http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/fixtu...2355/index.html If we're indeed talking, as rosarino suggests, about more slots for the have-somes, then I suppose I'm more sympathetic to the idea (My natural inclination in life is not to defend a staus quo where the strong lord their authority over the weak, honest!), but I still, and perhaps it just comes down to temperment, don't really have a problem with the current format and in fact, does conform fairly closely to my ideas about 'fairness'.) As a PS/FWIW, not sure if anyone on this thread follows US college basketball at all, but its post-season tournament (64 teams, single elimination, 30 automatic entrants as conference-winners, the remaining 34 at-large invitiations handed out by a committee) and the yearly debate about whether Big Conference A 5th place should get a bid instead of Mid-conference Y 3rd place provides some interesting contrasts and comparisions... |
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Another day in June, we'll pick eleven for football We're playing for our lives, the referee gives us f**k-all | |
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| Martin | Feb 1 2007, 02:24 PM Post #15 |
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I'm 100% in agreement with Roosevelt here. This isn't a radical change Platini is proposing but it is one which will effect the quality of play we will see in the future in the CL. And it is being done in order to pay back his political patrons. I used to regularly read World Soccer Magazine and their writers and editors often took the same argument Simon is taking here, that the Champions League shoud really return to it's roots and become a straight Cup competition involving only the champions or perhaps runners up from the major countries. I think this is a very English attitude because of the mystique which has often surrounded the FA Cup in England where those types of competitions are still revered. But personally I like the way the Champions League is arranged now. And I want it to remain as a competition for the best teams, be they England's or Italy's 4th place finisher or the 2nd team from Greece or Belgium. I want that team to have earned it's way there and the current system of using preliminary games to weed out teams is I think a wise idea. rosarino and enganche's idea of the Copa Libertadores being more interesting than the Champions League is I feel a separate issue. Personally I equally enjoy both tournaments but don't forget in the Libertadores, Argentina and Brazil are now allowed 5 participants each so it isn't as if that competition is limiting clubs from the biggest nations either. |
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This is the 21st Century and while it is true the final rounds are contested by the teams from the biggest countries plus occasionally guests from Portugal and Holland, the truth is the expected giants don't do as well as you'd expect. Ok, Milan in 2003 and Barcelona last year were big clubs who won the title but many outsiders like Porto, Monaco, PSV, and even Liverpool and Arsenal, big clubs who weren't expected to get that far, have been making it to the final stages of the Champions League. And they made it there on merit as the way the tournament is set up you see the best teams getting through.
5:04 PM Jul 10