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| Champions League | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 23 2007, 11:32 AM (2,294 Views) | |
| Simon | Apr 8 2007, 04:24 PM Post #91 |
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Thanks for the kind thoughts, yes I am indeed back from Rome in one piece. Got back yesterday at midday. We thought we'd make a longer trip of it, as obviously Rome's such a great place to visit. It also worked out cheaper not to be flying on Good Friday! It was an eventful few days though, apologies in advance for the length of what follows: Before going out there, as I'd mentioned in an earlier post, our fans had been officially warned by United to be on our guard the whole time and particularly to steer clear of the Ponte Nenni, the Piazza Flaminio and the Campo de Fiori. I've been fortunate enough to visit Rome several times as a tourist in August and so while I'm not familiar with the first two locations, which are kind of out of the way en route to the stadium, I know the Campo de Fiori very well. It was hard for me to reconcile my memories of this lively, attractive square with these warnings, but nonetheless it was here that Middlesbrough fans were stabbed during a set-piece attack by an armed and masked gang of 'ultras' last year. Anyway, me and my mate went there on Tuesday night (because that's where the bars are clustered) and had a great and totally trouble-free night with a load of other United fans. Maybe that lulled us and the other reds that got in on the Tuesday into a false sense of security, because Wednesday was horrendous. Some of the bunch of us who were in the Campo were up and out late-ish on Weds after sleeping off a heavy Tues night. It meant we didn't do much exploring and after a walk to see the Trevi Fountain we basically just set up at a bar off the Spanish Steps for an afternoon of singing with the other reds. This was lucky indeed for us, because elsewhere around the city groups of 2 or 3 United fans were being ambushed and punched or stabbed in kind of guerrilla attacks by these ultras. I mean, how cowardly can you get? Anecdotal evidence started to drift through to us at our bar, either from people getting phone calls from friends who'd been attacked or from people with all kinds of cuts and bruises who were turning up at the bar to be in a big group of United fans, figuring they'd be safe in numbers. Our second stroke of luck came later, though it hardly seemed like one at the time. We'd figured the sensible thing to do would be to get to the ground early, by taxi, so as to avoid the other trouble spots and to get in to the United section early. However, we were advised that it would be quicker and much cheaper for us to try to get on the official club coaches to the ground, even though we weren't on the official trip. We were assured there'd be no problems, plenty of coaches and we'd get to the ground in plenty of time. So that's what we did, and it all turned out to be true with the exception of the last bit. The organisation and the procrastination of the Italian police was so bad that all of these 30-odd coaches arrived at the ground about only about 20 minutes before kick-off! This meant an almighty crush of a huge number of reds trying to get through just TWO turnstiles - all convinced they were going to miss the start of the game. Unbelievably bad organisation and very poor facilities created a dangerous situation - as it was we managed to get to our spot in the stadium just as the teams were coming out, so much for getting there early!! As much as we were cursing the fact we hadn't got a taxi, getting on the coach actually turned out to be the best thing we could do, as those poor unfortunates who were getting taxis were again being ambushed as they got out. The Roma fans presumably knew where United fans would be dropped off and were setting on them with knives, bottles and fireworks, and again attacking those who were in small numbers. Late that night I bumped into another group of friends who'd got a taxi in. One had a big stab wound on his arse through a hole in his jeans, and a cut on his neck where he'd just about managed to avoid a wild knife slash. Apparently, the scenes outside the stadium were like WW3 thanks to the ultras' 'welcoming committee'. The Ponte Nenni and Piazza Flaminio were also every bit as bad as predicted for those unlucky or foolhardy souls who blundered in there, and this despite the bullshit outrage and offence of the mayor of Rome at any suggestion from United that parts of his city or any of it's citizens might be dangerous. Inside the ground, the atmosphere was great and things were fine until the Roma fans on either side of us began throwing bottles and coins into the United fans. What amazed me was that the United fans were separated from the Roma lot by a Perspex fence. On our side of that fence was a bunch of riot police with helmets and batons. On their side...nothing! Just a handful of stewards. As such, nothing was done to stop this bottle throwing. Again, dreadful organisation. I guarantee that if I was to stand up at Old Trafford and hurl a bottle into the away fans, I would be kicked out in five minutes flat, either because I'd been seen by a steward or because I'd been identified on the CCTV that constantly monitors the crowd. In Rome, no CCTV and no action from the stewards. If they'd nipped this problem in the bud there would have been no trouble at all. Instead, Scholes's red card was the trigger for this initial trickle of thrown objects to become an absolute deluge. Bottles, coins and even a few fireworks were absolutely raining down on our section and we were having to cover our heads and watch the sky rather than the game, so as to have any chance of trying to avoid them. The stadium is basically terraced as well, so a dangerous crush could have ensued as United fans converged on the middle trying to get out of range. Again, what did the police or stewards do? Absolutely nothing to stop it. In fact, I could still see the fellas going up and down the steps in their end selling bottles of coke and water. A stupid idea at the best of times but wouldn't you think they'd stop selling missiles at this point? Anyway, Taddei's shot deflected in and a big mob of ultras suddenly charged past the pitiful number of stewards and through their 'no-man's land' buffer zone to bang on the fence, to threaten our fans and to throw missiles from point-blank range. About 25-30 United fans went to the fence and were trading punches with the Italians. Even at this late stage, IMO the police could still have done something to contain the situation by trying to arrest and remove those 25 lads, even if their earlier rank negligence had allowed things to reach this point. But what they did instead defied belief - the whole lot of them simply waded into the United end whacking people indiscriminately with their batons. They were belting people to the ground and then still hammering them when they were down, they were hammering their friends when they pleading with the police to stop, they were hammering old people, they were hammering women. The whole thing was horrific, and they just wouldn't stop. Even on brief occasions when United fans had managed to get back far enough for there to be a kind of uneasy stand-off for half a minute, it was the police, not the fans, who would then kick things off again by launching a new baton charge. I just can't understand what they thought they were doing. It sounds a bad thing to say, but the only way that I can explain their actions is to suggest that they were spoiling for a fight and got what they wanted. I just can’t think what else they can have been doing. Naturally, some idiots thought they could help the situation by tearing up seats to throw at the police, or by going out of their way to get involved rather than stay out of it. But it was a ridiculous catalogue of mistakes, of failure to stop the Italian missile throwing, of having no police on the Italian side (I have read subsequently that the police are ‘scared’ of the ultras after numerous run-ins with them – what an absurd situation) and of unbelievable over-the-top violence from the police that caused all the trouble. I’ve noted since with disbelief that the Italian papers have blamed ‘drunken English hooligans’ – totally wide of the mark. Fortunately, these days things have changed and we have a voice. The club have complained to UEFA and AS Roma and even Tony Blair and Home Secretary John Reid have complained to the Italians. It remains to be seen what will be done about it, if anything. United have requested eyewitness accounts and videophone footage from fans to send to UEFA, which I’ll definitely help them out with. Anyway, I was far enough up the stand to be out of harms way, which is more than can be said for some of my friends who got there earlier and were thus nearer the front and got hit with batons. So my head is intact, but thanks once again for asking! Perhaps tomorrow I’ll come back on and talk about some football! |
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| Martin | Apr 8 2007, 11:32 PM Post #92 |
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That is some history Simon! Glad to hear you got out in one piece but how sad it is that some elements use the cover of football to display their violent tendencies. From your description it sounds as if some thoughtful policing would have nipped any problem at or near the stadium in the bud. Sadly that wasn't the case. I don't know what Manchester United and Chelsea did this past weekend in the league with their starting team but almost all the other remaining quarterfinalists used teams mixed with reserves this past weekend so they'd be fresh for this week's games. Perhaps surprisingly only Manchester United and the all but eliminated PSV were the only teams to lose while Chelsea, Bayern and Milan recorded very important league wins. I'm not sure how much effect that will have on Tuesday's and Wednesday's games but it is an interesting, at least to me, anecdote. |
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| Merengue | Apr 9 2007, 01:00 PM Post #93 |
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Simon, I too am glad to hear you got away from the Roma match unharmed but what a shame it has become this, where you are thankful you emerged safely from a foreign trip to see your club play. I'm looking forward to both of tomorrow's games, Valencia vs Chelsea and Manchester United vs Roma. After last week's results these look like two games where just about anything could happen. Word from Valencia is Morientes is recovering faster than expected from his shoulder injury and could be available to play. Bayern has the advantage of returning home on Wednesday tied 2-2 with Milan and with 2 away goals but they are going through some injuries of their own now. Sagnol is now out for the year and Demichelis and possibly even Schweinsteiger are going to miss the Milan match. Against wily Milan, those injuries may outweigh that first leg away draw. This is going to be a very difficult game for Bayern. After leg 1 result does anybody but Liverpool or PSV fans care about their 2nd game? |
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| Manzanares | Apr 9 2007, 02:23 PM Post #94 |
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Valencia-Chelsea will be one of these games with dientes apretados I think that means grinded teeth, in other words one where both teams are just going to have to reach down and grind out the game. Since that fits both teams' style of play they are both capable of doing so and getting the win. It may not be pretty but it should be quite dramatic. In all three of the games which are still close it will be interesting to see if somebody can score early and how that will change the dynamics of the match. These are the type of games the Champions League was created for. Enjoy them and I look forward to reading the post game thoughts here. |
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| enganche | Apr 9 2007, 11:18 PM Post #95 |
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An early goal is always a key in two legged series and could be the difference between a cagey, chess like game and a more wide open attacking game. I see where Manchester United will miss Saha (plus the suspended Scholes and injured Vidic) while Roma will be without Perrotta but get Pizarro back. Bayern's absences have already been presented here but they also will get Kahn and Van Bommel back for the Milan game. The rossoneri will be without Gilardino so that means Inzaghi will have to help Kaka out with the goalscoring. |
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| Simon | Apr 10 2007, 04:21 AM Post #96 |
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There's a bit of an injury crisis that's hit United over the last few weeks, and it was a factor in the league defeat at Portsmouth as we had to dig into our 'squad' which isn't nearly deep enough to be challenging on three fronts like we are at present. Right now we have no specialist right-back, two of our three most experienced centre-halves are injured, our first choice left-back has not played in over a month. Our main striker, Louis Saha, is unfit and our most experienced central midfielder got himself suspended. Things look good for Roma from that point of view, plus Van Der Sar has chosen this inopportune moment to go through a spell of ropey form. But on the plus side, Roma played against our 10 men for an hour on Wednesday and only beat us with a jammy deflection and some poor goalkeeping, so hopefully with good performances from our key men and with another full house at Old Trafford behind the lads we can turn them over. Should be another special European night at OT. I'd really like to see the Valencia - Chelsea game as well, shame they're on the same night. I'll have to make do with highlights later on. Nothing much to choose between the two teams either. From a United point of view, I hardly know whether it would be better for us if Valencia demolish Chelsea and damage their confidence, or if Chelsea go through and still have the distraction of Europe for a few weeks yet. Either way, hopefully there should be two great games tonight! |
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| Merengue | Apr 10 2007, 09:24 AM Post #97 |
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You've said it enganche, that is why I like to see teams coming out aggressively in these games. Look at Bayern in the previous round against Madrid, scoring after 12 seconds. They couldn't ask for a better start but by scoring so early they completely threw Madrid's game plan out the door. In the end that early goal also was the difference between the two teams over the two legs. Let's see if one of the teams will try and come out early today and attack. |
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| valenciano | Apr 10 2007, 10:09 AM Post #98 |
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Good points about not wanting to sit back and trying to take the initiative in a game from the kickoff. Valencia sat back a little too much for my liking at home in leg 2 against Inter, I don't want to see them repeat that tonight versus Chelsea. Morientes is a go for tonight's game and it looks like Essien will be able to play for Chelsea. Should be a fun one. AMUNT VALENCIA! |
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| Winslow | Apr 10 2007, 01:17 PM Post #99 |
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Tuesday's second legs... . . . . . . Man United 7, Roma 1; Valencia 1, Chelsea 2. This is not a misprint. The Mancunians swarmed the Romans from the get-go, with Carrick and C. Ronaldo scoring twice; Smith, Rooney, and Evra got the others, with Roma's only reply coming from De Rossi to make the score 6-1 at the time. Meanwhile, Chelsea is also through, thanks to an Essien goal in injury time. Valencia took a first-half lead on a goal by Morientes; Shevchenko tied it early in the second half. So it's darn near an All-England final four. Barring a stunning collapse at Anfield tomorrow, Chelsea will play Liverpool in the semis, and that should be quite a pair of contests. It's also a break for the Blues, who won't have to get on a plane in midweek, as Man U must do in order to go to Munich or Milan. A trip like that is the last thing a stretched squad battling for the EPL title needs. |
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| Simon | Apr 10 2007, 02:00 PM Post #100 |
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Wow, what can I say? When United play like that, we'll destroy any team on Earth. That's the brand of football that's made this club's name down the decades, tonight was pure Manchester United. Every one of them played a blinder tonight. Couldn't really pick a man of the match. Everyone at the back was great, not that they had too much to do! Fletcher had one of his best games for United, never stopped running, closed people down, hassled, harried, tackled and passed it cleverly when in possession. Carrick gave a midfield masterclass. His positioning for winning the ball and intercepting passes was first class, the range of his passing was truly Scholes-like and he scored two magnificent goals. The first one got us underway and was an inch-perfect clip over the keeper, the second showed such great technique, straight as an arrow into the top corner. And up front, my god, Ronaldo, Rooney, Giggs and Smith were absolutely unplayable. The non-stop pace and movement and one touch passing blew Roma away. They just couldn't live with us. Even when they went into damage limitation mode they still couldn't stop the flow of goals. Especially pleased for Smith, it was only his fifth start of the season but you'd never have guessed it. He fitted hand-in-glove into United's whirlwind interplay and his glorious first-time finish capped off the second goal, IMO the best of the seven. Forgive me for taking extra pleasure in this as well after the events of the past week. Unbelievably, those scumbag 'ultras' were giving it out before this one as well, throwing bottles on the Old Trafford forecourt and attacking United fans. This time they were resourcefully cutting up beer cans into sharp blades to stab United fans with. Nice chaps. Good to see Greater Manchester Police box them in without needing to resort to wholesale batonning of anyone looking Italian. I can still see them standing in the Roman heat on Wednesday with their coats on so they could hide their broken bottles and knives up their sleeves. Good riddance to them and their pathetic no-mark fans, I only wish I could see their section as each of the seven goals found its mark. Off to the Mestalla then, for the other game. Haven't seen this one but the result doesn't really surprise me. Chelsea are Chelsea, they always find a way. I've seen a few clips of it, Morientes hit the post and scored a very good goal, Shevchenko hit a striker's equaliser with Valencia in a mess at the back and then Ballack must have thought his header had won it but for a truly superb save from Canizares. But as I say, Chelsea are relentless and they were bound to find a winner somewhere. In the event, it was Essien who drove one past Canizares on his near post in injury time. Chelsea had numbers in the box at that point and presumably the keeper was expecting the cross. So that's three English teams out of four in the semi-finals this year, which to be honest I thought was quite likely once they were kept apart in the draw as I thought each English side was the favourite in its tie, to a greater or lesser extent. either AC Milan or Bayern Munich will be a really tough opponent for United in the semis, though. Neither are doing too well domestically but maybe that just makes them more dangerous in Europe. They both have great experience and a real threat, so I couldn't really tell you who I'd rather we get. From a fans' point of view let's hope it's Bayern, I don't think any of us is in a tearing hurry to go back down to Italy! And of course Chelsea play Liverpool yet again. Chelsea are clearly the better side but Liverpool have had the upper hand across four CL meetings in the last two years, so who can say? |
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| siralfred | Apr 10 2007, 04:09 PM Post #101 |
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Forza Zlatan!
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Hard to believe it's the same team (more or less) that lost to Pompey just a few days ago. But maybe that was the motivation they needed. Also with the depth in the squad, everyone's fighting for a spot now. |
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| Manzanares | Apr 10 2007, 08:36 PM Post #102 |
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That was like Monaco's destruction of Deportivo or Lyon's blowout of Werder Bremen but neither of those were in the quarterfinals of the Champions League. What else can you say? Man U were superlative with their one touch passing, speed and movement while Roma were pathetic. After what happened to Man U's fans in Rome, there couldn't have been better revenge than this game. It looked to me like Chelsea just wore Valencia down. It was an intense match but Valencia seemed to get too conservative when only up 1-0 and Chelsea's 2nd half addition of Joe Cole gave them better control in midfield and their individual strength in one on one battles came into effect. That is why I think they wore Valencia down. By the way, anybody see David Villa? |
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| enganche | Apr 10 2007, 11:07 PM Post #103 |
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I guess that was like the perfect storm where everything came together for Manchester United and everything fell apart for Roma. But man that was impressive play from Manchester United. On a team where everyone played well, Cristiano Ronaldo really stood out. On this form it is hard to argue that he isn't among the games very ebst players. I think Manzanares has hit the mark about Chelsea-Valencia. Mourinho's bunch just wore them down. That's a big, strong team that is pretty relentless and while Valencia held them off well and Canizares came up with some big saves, he was surprised by Essien's near post shot as Valencia did seem to run out of gas at the end. |
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| Martin | Apr 11 2007, 09:22 AM Post #104 |
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LOL, a perfect storm is a good way to describe what happened in the Man U v Roma game. I guess Roma shouldn't have to worry about other clubs coming after Christian Chivu this summer! That was as poor a defensive performance as I've seen in a long time from an individual player. Of course Chivu wasn't alone but his play was shockingly bad for someone of his caliber. But credit to Manchester United for their passing. I really enjoy watching a team use one touch passing to open up an opponent like United did yesterday. As Simon said every one of Manchester United's starters did well but I'm with enganche that was as good a match as I've seen Cristiano Ronaldo play. I'm glad he ahsn't lost his flair but he's certainly learned how to play with a team. The collective play from the Red Devils was how you like to see this game played. Again I'm going to agree with the assertion that Chelsea wore Valencia down. Their strength in the individual challenges did allow them to win practically every 50-50 challenge in the 2nd half. And Raul Albiol's 2nd half injury left Albelda alone in midfield as Hugo Viana provided nothing when he came on for Albiol. I'm a David Villa fan but I do think he is a player who doesn't seem to play well in big matches for either club or country. That is what he needs to improve on to further develop as a player. Michael Essien is an incredible player. He's able to play practically everywhere and his physical strength and technique allows him to be successful no matter where he plays. I read some comments both here and later from Mourinho about Joe Cole and that too was another key for Chelsea. Cole gives Chelsea's midfield more skill and creativity and I can't help but think his prolonged absence this season has contributed to Chelsea's "struggles" this season, that is if you consider being in the Champions League and FA Cup semifinals and 3 points behind the league leader a struggle! |
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| Winslow | Apr 11 2007, 12:52 PM Post #105 |
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And Wednesday's deciders... . . . . . . Bayern Munich 0, AC Milan 2; Liverpool 1, PSV Eindhoven 0. So Milan goes through, providing a little pasta alongside the EPL beans and toast. Both goals came in the first half, with Seedorf scoring first from the top of the box before putting Inzaghi through for the second. Meanwhile, Liverpool was never really challenged at home; Crouch scored midway through the second half, shortly after PSV's Marcellis was sent off. |
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