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| Champions League | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 23 2007, 11:32 AM (2,290 Views) | |
| Martin | May 2 2007, 10:11 AM Post #151 |
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And in light of this I can't help but tell one of my favorite football related jokes, "There's this Iraqi who signs for Liverpool and he replaces Peter Crouch at half time on his debut. They're 4-0 down but he scores five and the Kop's chanting his name and everything. After the game he phones his mum all excited and tells her. When he's finished raving, he says: "So, how's the family?" And she says: "Well, the house has been looted, the car's been torched and your Dad's been shot." And he says: "Blimey Mum, I'm so sorry." To which she replies: "You bloody well should be - you're the reason we moved to Liverpool" I've seen today's lineups, Vidic will start for Manchester United with Ferdinand on the bench, Inzaghi and Gattuso will play for Milan but Maldini won't, as noted Kaladze starts in his place. Enjoy the game. |
| Club Sportivo Desamparados | |
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| Winslow | May 2 2007, 12:53 PM Post #152 |
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The second second leg... . . . . . . It's rematch time! AC Milan beat up Man United 3-0 to coast into the final. Based on what I saw (about half of it), the visitors left their game on the plane--or possibly at Manchester airport. Kaka opened the scoring (no surprise) ten minutes in when he latched onto a Seedorf header at the top of the box and promptly put the ball inside the right post. The marking was deplorable. Then on the half-hour, Man U gave the ball away, then weakly headed away a cross; Seedorf collected it, rode a tackle, then shot from about the same spot as Kaka and hit the same place in the net. That was about it, except Gilardino converted a breakaway with about 12 minutes to go. So Milan goes to Athens to face Liverpool and get some revenge. I suspect it will. |
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| Gunners | May 2 2007, 01:16 PM Post #153 |
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Is there a better player in the world right now than Kaka? Despite all the great players on display -- Cristiano Ronaldo, Andrea Pirlo, Wayne Rooney, etc. -- Kaka was unquestionably the best player in this two-leg tie. Simply unstoppable. |
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| rosarino | May 2 2007, 01:19 PM Post #154 |
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Milan just dismantled Manchester United. It wasn't as large a score as Manchester United's crushing win over Roma in the prior round but it was every bit as dominant. Yeah Manchester United made some defensive mistakes but they were chasing shadows for most of the game as Milan's technical passing game had them off balance. And what can you say about Gattuso? Last week some here noted how the first leg changed when he came off, well he played about 80 minutes tonight and won everything in midfield. Great all around performance from Milan. Maybe the Manchester United fans here can recall another occasion but I don't ever recall Ferguson's team beaten this easily in a European match before. Oh and Kaka has taken an early lead in the battle between he, Crstiano Ronaldo and Rooney for player of the year in 2007. |
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| Simon | May 2 2007, 01:42 PM Post #155 |
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So how was it for you? Personally I was happier with the Liverpool Chelsea game! AC Milan 3-0 Manchester United. (Milan win 5-3 on aggregate) An early goal by Kaka, precisely what we couldn't afford, turned the tie on it's head and put Milan in the lead. Then they got a second goal through Seedorf on 30 mins which was utterly excruciating watching if you're a United fan. After that we had a mountain to climb and had to commit numbers forward looking for the two goals we needed, which left Milan acres of space on the break. Sure enough, Gilardino seemed to have our half to himself when running through late in the game and slotting a third. I think 3 main things conspired against us here. First of all, of course, we must credit Milan who did a good job. They weren't necessarily exceptional, although some of their passing movements were great especially in the first half, but once they took the lead in the tie they never looked like giving it up. They did all the things Italian sides are good at, they packed their box, they constricted midfield and double-marked our danger men, they wasted time at every opportunity and they regularly went down 'injured' to force stoppages or for the ball to be put out of play. I commented earlier in this thread about how effectively they saw out the Bayern Munich 2nd leg and how important it is not to give yourself a mountain to climb against Italian opposition. Roma could quite conceivably have done the same thing to us at Old Trafford given the chance, but the key there was that our flurry of early goals never allowed them the opportunity. Unfortunately the boot was on the other foot here. The second and third things are really concerning United alone. We've been commenting both here and on the EPL thread about how United's entire defence is out injured, and how far we can get by with a defence entirely consisting of reserves. During this period we have actually let plenty of goals in and kept very few clean sheets, but this has been masked by how great we've been at the other end. But having conceded two soft goals in the 1st leg you simply can't get away with going out to the San Siro and letting another two stupid goals in. Our defence was a dreadful mess in the first ten minutes and if anything it was surprising it took Milan that long to score. Great hit by Kaka, but why wasn't there a challenge on the edge of the box? Who was with him? The second goal, what can I say? A disaster. Heinze had to clear it, but instead he played a hospital ball to Vidic right on the edge of his own 6-yard box. Vidic slipped and sliced the ball, but even after it came back in United had a further 2 or 3 chances to get rid of it before Seedorf fired home. I guess there's no good time to have a defensive injury crisis but you can ride your luck more in the autumn. In May, there are no second chances. You can't just gift AC Milan 3 or 4 goals in a CL semi-final and hope to be in the final. Thirdly, and finally, United just looked tired and listless. Okay we had an almost impossible task at 0-2 but remember in 1999 United were 0-2 away at Juventus in the CL semi-final 2nd leg and won that game 3-2. But this, thanks to the debilitating effect of the Glazer takeover combined with our injury crisis (we were very lucky with injuries in 99), is a very small United squad. Basically the same core 11 players have been busting their arses all season and it's really starting to show. Scholes worked hard and generally passed well but it's players like Giggs, Ronaldo and Rooney who always play such a high energy pass and move game and take people on that we needed a spark from. But they were flat. The stats say that we had 53% possession and that both sides had 12 shots, but we looked flat and lifeless while Milan were hurling themselves into tackles and full of energy. The honest truth is that this United squad just isn't deep enough to challenge on 3 fronts all season. While we were charging about at the weekend battling back from 2-0 down to get a vital 4-2 win at Everton, the Milan players were sunning themselves while their reserves and cup-tied players beat Ancona. Chelsea looked dead last night and have been competing on 4 fronts this season. While they were flogging themselves into the ground drawing 2-2 with Bolton on Sat, the Liverpool first-teamers were relaxing at the beach or on the golf course. It's an interesting discussion point, has the CL become a competition for teams in 4th or 5th place in their domestic leagues? In the past few years, Monaco, Liverpool, Arsenal, Liverpool again and now Milan have been examples of sides getting to the CL final while being way off the pace in their championship. This year's final will be between teams who aren't remotely the best from their respective countries. Hmm... Anyway, I'm now a major Rossoneri fan for the final. Come on boys, FORZA MILAN!!! |
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| Gazza | May 2 2007, 01:54 PM Post #156 |
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Couldn't agree more. He's got deceptive speed, great 2 footed skill and still very young. He's a once in a generation talent. I love him (and I'm a United fan ).
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| Simon | May 2 2007, 02:00 PM Post #157 |
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Not since the 'three foreigners rule' was scrapped in 1996. Prior to that, teams were only allowed to play 3 foreign players in European games. That hit English teams especially hard as of course the four home countries are counted separately in football. So not only did Cantona, Keane, Schmeichel, Irwin, Kanchelskis and co count as foreigners but so too did players from elsewhere in Britain, such as Hughes, Giggs and McClair. erguson used to have to juggle things around but our team was always badly weakened in Europe. One time away against Barcelona, Fergie gambled by playing three of the above-mentioned outfield players and dropping Schmeichel for a chap called Gary Walsh. Result: 4-0 to Barcelona. Gattuso does an effective job but he takes gamesmanship to a whole new level. He's not just a destroyer, he's also a talented player. Easy to respect for what he does, but very hard to like - especially when it's against your team that he's rolling about on the floor! I just feel that if we could have played Neville, Rio, Vidic, Evra across the back four in both legs, all fully-fit, and if we'd also had the luxury of resting players at the weekend and were full of our usual energy, we would have beaten Milan. Still, there it is. Injuries and fatigue are part of football. We've had a great run in this competition, but the priority has to be the championship. A couple of weeks ago we had a discussion on here about United's small squad and whether we should have prioritised. Those exhausted players we've seen tonight have to play a 300 mph blood and thunder Manchester derby at noon on Saturday. If we lose that I guess you can say 'yes, we should have prioritised'. It'll be a bit late by then, though! |
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| valenciano | May 2 2007, 03:37 PM Post #158 |
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Milan were excellent and I will echo others comments here about how Manchester United looked flat but a lot of that was because Milan came after them from the opening whistle. van der Sar did well to tip over a Seedorf shot after only a few minutes. Milan's ball movement is what confused Manchester United in my opinion, remember how well Seedorf and Pirlo would change the point of attack and how wide open Oddo was on the right which eventually caused Ronaldo to have to drop back deep and defend him. I do have to take some objection to Simon's comments about Milan's gamesmanship. I didn't see it in this game (not to say they haven't done that before). When Gattuso went down it looked legitimate to me and he rightfully blew his top when Manchester United didn't return the ball to Milan after they put it out of play so an injured player could be treated. But Ancelotti was wise to pull him shortly thereafter. While the English club's defense made some mistakes, I really thought it was in midfield where Milan won this game as Kaka, Seedorf, Ambrosini, Gattuso and Pirlo controlled the game and once they had the lead were content to let United have the ball and pressure them. Dida, other than grabbing some crosses, had very little to do. |
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| xeneize | May 2 2007, 07:43 PM Post #159 |
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A brilliant tactical plan by Ancelotti today against Manchester United. take advantage of their 3 man midfield by having his midfielders press them early and have the fullbacks push up to keep Ronaldo and Giggs occupied defending rather tan attacking. It worked to perfection and Manchester United never really threatened Milan. Some of the passing sequences that Milan had, however, were a real joy to watch. Gattuso was superb but so were Seedorf and Pirlo while Ambrosini gave them the extra force in midfield to control the opposition. Milan struggled in the first half of the season but in this second half they are playing well and fully deserve this place in the final. It'll be hard to top their game of two years ago but let us all hope the contrasting styles produces a good match. |
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| futbol4 | May 2 2007, 09:23 PM Post #160 |
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Yeah, if only he could grow up and just play, like Rooney and Ronaldo..... Say all you want about a weak defense by Man U, Gennaro's midfield domination was insstrumental in creating the poor defense and "soft"goals. In 180 minutes of play, Milan outplayed their opponents. |
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Four hundred years ago, English-speaking illegal immigrants slipped into Jamestown, Va. When will America start getting serious about protecting its borders? - L Powers U S A! MEXICO! BARCA, BARCA, BARCA! MILAN! | |
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| Pique | May 2 2007, 11:15 PM Post #161 |
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I also think Gattuso was the real difference in this game. Seedorf and Kaka were the offensive threats but Gattuso just ran everything down and help to take Ronaldo out of the game with his pressure and tackling. We saw the difference he made in these two legs as when he was in the game Milan were the better team. Once he left injured in leg 1 is when Manchester United took control. Martin, good joke! |
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Esas son las leyendas de futbol mexicano, En todo Mexico hay un Chiva hermano! | |
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| Zinfandel | May 3 2007, 06:52 AM Post #162 |
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I will have to disagree with my friend here. But first I will agree in the comment made by him and others. Milan was simply better yesterday both technically and tactically. The dominance in the midfield was the key, and while Gattuso was important to that, so too was the tactic of taking the midfield away. I think Ferguson gets outcoached in these European games, especially against the Serie A and La Liga teams. But there are two other items that made the difference as far as I am concerned. The comparisons between the impacts of the "hot shots" and the "wise old heads". Kaka outplayed C. Ronaldo and Seedorf outplayed Scholes. Add Pirlo to that mix and United simply lost the matchups. Then there is the Gattuso comparison. Oops, since Keane's fall from greatness, United has not had a controllng player to support the midfield attackers and to cut balls out before they get to the backline. All of the above adds up to the kind of pressure that United's patched up backline could not begin to control. I said yesterday before the game that Milan would score and the only way United could win was to get a couple of goals. They didn't, and they lost. They didn't score because Milan was better in the midfield and United was worse than not as good at the back. Was this a better game than Liverpool-Chelsea? Not if you ask me. |
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| jpick | May 3 2007, 07:48 AM Post #163 |
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it was if you were a milan fan :D. seriously, though, united is a class team who looks to win the league and give a good run at the fa cup. that combined with a cl semifinal is pretty darn good, not 1999, but nothing at which to be disappointed. |
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| Simon | May 3 2007, 09:41 AM Post #164 |
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It was a game too far for United. We've been going flat out for the championship, which is obviously our priority, but we've also had great runs in the Champions League and the FA Cup, which we may yet win. Meanwhile, Milan have been taking it fairly easy all season without challenging for anything but the CL. This 'doing the treble' lark is pretty difficult, you know! It's not for nothing that it's only ever been done once by a team from a top league, and it was asking far too much to think it could be done by this small United squad. If we have to miss out on the European Cup, I'm just grateful it's to Milan in the semi-finals rather than Liverpool in the final! Ultimately, we lost 5-3 on aggregate and gave four poor goals away. There are games where you can just about get away with having a defence made up of reserves. A Champions League semi against a great side like Milan and a superb player like Kaka is not one of them. Also, at the end of a long hard season, there may be a game where you can get away with playing a team that have had a week longer to rest and prepare than you have. Again, Milan in the San Siro is not it! Gattuso is cut from the same cloth as Nobby Stiles, who used to play for United in the 60s. Controversial and unpopular with opponents, great at breaking up play but also a better player with the ball than most gave him credit for. We've actually tried to sign him at United a number of times and he was quoted recently saying he'd like to have gone to United but is happy at Milan. He made his name at Rangers, of course, and has a Scottish wife. There's still a lot of the Glaswegian hard-knock about him! He certainly did play well last night and was full of running, as ever. He closed us down very effectively, but come on, he could have had about four yellow cards for cynical trips on Ronaldo and last night he and the others did plenty of going down to break up the play, expecting us to give them the ball back when play restarts. The Italians love to do that, but it also became a common tactic in England and so this season we have a new rule - players are not to put the ball out like that unless the ref tells them to. It's worked really well and should be brought in everywhere IMO. Gattuso knew what he was doing, as ever, and it worked a treat. Perhaps my mate put it best last night, "that Gattuso's a dirty little pr*ck but I wish he was in a white shirt!" But what do you reckon, has the CL become a competition for 3rd, 4th and 5th placed teams domestically? It seems to be an increasing trend. Here's an interesting fact (to me at least!) in the last thirteen years only three teams have won a top championship and the CL in the same season - Man United in 99, Bayern Munich in 2001 and Barca last year. Based on recent evidence my prediction, FWIW, is that we'll see more and more teams in the CL final who have long since been out of the running for their championship and who have prioritised the CL and rested players in league games. This year, there are two such clubs. Whether people consider that a problem or not is another matter, but it may become something UEFA look at as I'm sure they want the CL winners to be 'the best team in Europe', as far as possible. |
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| Merengue | May 3 2007, 09:56 AM Post #165 |
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It obviously is easier to only compete in one competition than multiple ones, and I am assuming Simon you aren't counting Porto winning the Champions League and Portuguese league titles in the same year in 2004 as winning a major domestic championship but the fact they and Barcelona did the "double" in the past few years does show that it is still possible. As for Milan, they got off to a horrible start this season probably due to a combination of the aftermath of the World Cup triumph and the disappointment of the calciopolis scandal. But in the 2nd half of the season Milan have been as good as any team in Europe and are rightly in the Champions League Final. What will be interesting to watch later today in the UEFA Cup semifinal is how Sevilla do since they too are in line to win the league, domestic Cup and European tournament. |
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