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Champions League
Topic Started: Jan 23 2007, 11:32 AM (2,288 Views)
Merengue
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The octave finals or round of 16 begins on February 20 & 21 and these are the matchups (first leg home team listed first):

FC Porto v Chelsea

Celtic v AC Milan

PSV Eindhoven v Arsenal

Lille v Manchester United

Roma v Lyon

Barcelona v Liverpool

Real Madrid v Bayern Munich

Inter Milan v Valencia
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Manzanares
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We're already seeing how these teams are strengthening themselves with new players for the knockot stage of the Champions League. Manchester has Henrik Larsson; Madrid, Fernando Gago and Gonzalo Higuain; Milan, Massimo Oddo; Lyon, Milan Baros and I'm sure there will be more before the month is over.
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Merengue
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It's that time of the year again as Champions League returns after a 2 1/2 month break. Tuesday's games are:

Real Madrid vs Bayern
Lille vs Manchester United
PSV vs Arsenal
Celtic vs Milan

In recent years Liverpool, Villarreal and Arsenal all have shaken off relatively poor league seasons to play extremely well in the Champions League so current league form isn't always an accurate measuring stick. Interestingly old foes Madrid and Bayern come into their game in 4th place in their respective leagues so the Champions League can be a lifeline for them and for a team like Milan who are light years out of first place in Italy.

Celtic fans always like to talk about how difficult it is to play there so I'll be curious to see how Milan's veterans, who shouldn't be intimidated travelling anywhere, will do in that game. Obviously Ronaldo can't play and Inzaghi is injured and Gilardino just recovering from injury so Milan may be short of attacking options in the first leg.

Roberto Carlos should be back for Madrid after a month out but Ramos and Diarra, the team's two most dynamic players will be missing. Bayern's new coach Hitzfeld knows how to make a game ugly but effective for his team. Of course so does Capello so while this is a clash of big name teams, I don't expect it to be that interetsing. Manchester United should beat Lille but if I recall Lille helped knock out United in last year's group play so revenge could come into play here. Meanwhile I think PSV vs Arsenal could end up being the day's most interesting game as both teams like to play a highly technical passing game but PSV will miss their best attacker Farfan through injury so that is advantage Arsenal.
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Manzanares
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While it is true league form isn't always an accurate predictor of success in the Champions League it also isn't a bad way to guess how these games will turn out. I think you can somewhat ignore this past weekend's results as it is very possible some of the teams were looking beyond their league game to this week's European play but there also have been trends in 2007 which don't bode well for some teams like Bayern, Real Madrid (who have the comfort of facing each other), Lille, PSV and Roma who have been slipping lately. Lyon seem to have recovered from their previous drop in their level of play but the rest to me seem to be on a pretty even level of play with the exception of Inter who look unbeatable, at least in Italy, now.

Valencia are playing pretty well themselves and their game against Inter looks like the pick of all the Champions Legaue matches this week. Although Barcelona against Liverpool and Chelsea facing Mourinho's old team of Porto also look like intriguing games. I'm looking forward to the return of these matches.
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rosarino
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I think PSV-Arsenal will be the most interesting game on Tuesday because as Merengue said, the team's attacking mentality. I've gone on here and in the old forum some of you posted at, about how the Champions League gets too defensive at times and the Real Madrid-Bayern Munich game should be a prime example of that as the teams will both be too scared to give up anything so that they won't attack effectively and will sit in a defensive shell. But to PSV and Arsenal's credit they are less incliend to feel that fear and hopefully will produce a good match. One in which Arsenal should emerge victorious after the two legs.
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Pique
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I'm excited to see how Carlos Salcido will do for PSV against Arsenal but if Farfan is missing, added to the absence of the injured Kluivert, then PSV's offense will be hurting. They may have to rely on Edison Mendez' long range shots.

Both Madrid and Bayern need a win to put their league struggles behind them so rather than being an overly defensive game, i think this has the chance to be a pretty exciting match. For all the viewers sake, i hope that's the truth!

But Wednesday's games, especially Valencia-Inter and Barcelona-Liverpool are the games I am really looking forward to.
Esas son las leyendas de futbol mexicano,
En todo Mexico hay un Chiva hermano!
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enganche
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I'm with Pique, Wednesday's Valencia-Inter and Barcelona-Liverpool look to me like the best octave final games. Although I also think Roma-Lyon should be pretty good too. You have two teams who move the ball around very well and Lyon do seem to have recovered from their early 2007 struggles.

I hope PSV-Arsenal turns out interesting but the rest of the day's games don't interest me as much as Wednesday's schedule.
Prefiero morir de pie que vivir arrodillado
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Winslow
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Tuesday's scores...
.
.
.
.
.
.
Celtic 0, AC Milan 0.
Lille 0, Man United 1.
PSV 1, Arsenal 0.
Real Madrid 3, Bayern Munich 2.

Some interesting results, especially the one from Eindhoven. Arsenal had four very good scoring chances in the first half, only to lose on an Edison Mendez bullet from close to 30 yards that scooted past Lehmann into the far corner. In France, Man U's only goal came on a bit of free kick trickery; Giggs took it quickly and beat the disorganized Lille wall. The home team had scored earlier, but the ref disallowed it on a push in the box by goal-scorer Odemwingie.

Rosarino was pessimistic about Real-Bayern, but they produced twice as many goals as the other three games combined. Raul scored twice and van Nistelrooy added another in the first half; Lucio and van Bommel scored for Bayern, and Real may be burned by those away goals.

Did anything of interest happen in Celtic-Milan?
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rosarino
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Shows you how much I know, the game I thought was going to be boring Real Madrid-Bayern turned out to be by far the best game of the day! Madrid's early goal through Raul changed that game, Bayern came out attacking to gain a goal back, which they did, and you ended up having a very open first half which Madrid led 3-1. In the 2nd, Kahn made a great save from a Beckham free kick and that turned the game as Madrid got too defensive and Bayern kept pushing forward, Casillas made a fine save on his end from Pizarro but towards the end Bayern got a 2nd goal which could prove vital for the return leg. A 1-0 win in Germany sends Bayern through but Madrid did play a very good first half today and that should give them some hope for the return.

PSV-Arsenal was looking like the boring game until Mendez excellent long range shot gave them the win. PSV didn't look like they had much self belief before that shot but after the goal their confidence lifted and they bottled Arsenal up pretty well. When Arsenal did get through the defense, goalie Gomes was very secure for PSV.

I didn't see the other two games but I read Lille almost walked off the field after Manchester United scored on a quickly taken free kick. But that victory for Man U wasn't unexpected. neither was the fact Milan went on the road and came out with a 0-0 result.
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valenciano
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Madrid-Bayern was a very good game. A lot of end to end play but as rosarino said Bayern's late goal could turn out to be vital in this elimation series. I thought Madrid made a mistake sitting on their 3-1 lead in the 2nd half. That was the time to go for the jugular instead of sitting back and inviting the Germans to attack you. Capello should know better than try and sit on a lead against a German club because they never give up. You could tell Bayern were getting close to the 2nd goal before they eventually put it in.

I didn't see Manchester United-Lille but saw a replay of the goal on a quickly taken free kick. Smart play by United but this is why we see teams stall for time and players stand in front of free kick takers so they won't be surprised by a quickly taken free kick. Often we see the ref point to his whistle telling the attacking team don't take the free kick until I blow this. Did this ref do that? You can't blame United for taking advantage of what was there but at the same time that is a tough way to lose a game and I think teams shouldn't be allowed to take quickly taken free kicks near goal while the opposition is setting up it's defensive wall.
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Martin
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Real Madrid v Bayern was an entertaining game. The first half was the best Madrid have played this season since the Barcelona game. Raul and Beckham were especially active and I liked how Capello took out square ball Emerson and used Gago as a lone defensive midfielder with help from both Beckham and Guti. This created a very dynamic Madrid attack. But everything changed once Higuain was taken out and Robinho enetred and the team became, as is Capello's style, much more conservative. As valenciano said that was inviting Bayern to attack them and the German club deservedly pulled a goal back late in the match which will make the second leg much more difficult for Madrid. Pizarro was very dangerous for Bayern, I wonder why he didn't start in place of Podolski who is having a poor season and is coming off an injury?

As the Ecuador fan here I am obviously very happy with Edison Mendez' goal. It was a superb shot and he has become an expert at long distance shots just like that. PSV started off nervously but they defended well especially Alex while Gomes was very commanding in goal, Kone can cause a defense troubles but his countryman Toure knew his tricks and is as good a one on one defender as there is. Farfan was missed by PSV, as was Affelay in midfield but this was a confidence building win for them and they should give Arsenal a tough time of it in the return leg.

I think the other two games left Milan and Machester United in the driver's seat but valenciano raises a really good point in the previous post,

Quote:
 
I didn't see Manchester United-Lille but saw a replay of the goal on a quickly taken free kick. Smart play by United but this is why we see teams stall for time and players stand in front of free kick takers so they won't be surprised by a quickly taken free kick. Often we see the ref point to his whistle telling the attacking team don't take the free kick until I blow this. Did this ref do that? You can't blame United for taking advantage of what was there but at the same time that is a tough way to lose a game and I think teams shouldn't be allowed to take quickly taken free kicks near goal while the opposition is setting up it's defensive wall.


I didn't see this match either so I can't talk about the specifics of the incident but this is something I have thought about in the past and like valenciano I also don't think quickly taken free kicks near goal should be allowed especially when we so often see refs make a point of telling the attacking team to wait for his whistle. Sure Man U were smart to quickly take the free kick when the ref apparently didn't say wait for my whistle but it has become such an accepted practice of the game that it did seem cruel to Lille that they should have given up a goal in that manner. As valenciano said, this will just encourage defending players to stand right in front of the ball until the ref waves them back, which is a delaying tactic which I am sure we are all tired of seeing.

I am looking forward to Wednesday's set of games.
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cafetero
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That is a good debate you have going on about the free kicks. I hadn't really thought about it but yes I would agree that it is unfair to allow a team to do that when so often the referees make a show out of cautioning the teams to wait for the whistle. Like others here, I don't blame Manchester United for taking advantage of that as it is permissible under the rules but that might be something FIFA should look at in the future.

Madrid made the mistake so many teams do of getting too defensive with a 2 goal lead. But in two legged series and up by 2 goals at home they should have been pushing forward more. Capello got burned for his overly defensive tactics. I'd say Bayern are now slight favorites to advance but that second leg should be a competitive one.
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Simon
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The headlines here are being dominated by something no-one's mentioned yet. A very serious incident developed 10 mins into the game when it became apparent that somehow the French officials had crammed far too many United fans into one small section of the away end and they were being crushed up against the perimeter fence - exactly as happened when 96 fans died at Hillsborough in 1989. There were horrible scenes of United fans fighting for breath and trying to climb over the fence to safety. At least two had fainted and had to be lifted by others over the fance. Incredibly, those that did make it were attacked with batons and CS gas by the French police, who presumably thought it was some sort of pitch invasion. Again, nasty scenes and reports of men and women being clubbed and gassed by the police, one middle-aged woman lost teeth in a baton attack. Eventually they seemed to realise what was going on and opened a gate in the stand to allow United fans into a neighbouring section and relieve the crush, but it seems that a serious disaster was quite narrowly averted.

A UEFA spokeman said "The whole issue of Lille playing in that stadium will also need to be addressed. We cannot say now what action the Disciplinary Committee will take, but if they find against Lille, it could well be severe." As a postscript to that incident, well done to Edwin Van Der Sar who played the remaining 35 mins of the first half suffering double vision due to the tear gas.

As to the game, I would agree with the posts of others that it's fairer and less contentious if a free-kick is taken after a definite whistle from the referee so that everyone knows where they stand. Quite a few of these goals have been scored and as a result it's now standard practice to have a defender stand over the ball and very often to have an outfield player set the wall up so that the keeper isn't standing vulnerable on one post. Lille did neither of these things and of course nowhere in the rules does it say the ref is obliged to blow his whistle to give a signal. According to Giggs, the ref asked him if he wanted a whistle, Giggs was happy that the wall was 10-yards away so said no. The ref then turned his back and walked away while Giggs took his free-kick and scored.

What happened next was incredible. From the kick-off Lille booted the ball out of play and then walked en masse to the touchline where their coaching staff were instructing them to walk off the pitch, presumably to try to get the game abandoned. Fortunately sanity prevailed after a lot of furious arguing, but this had the effect of intimidating the referee and creating an extremely hostile atmosphere in which missiles rained down on the pitch whenever United players were nearby, and Gary Neville was hit by something. I don't know what the repercussions will be for Lille, there has been some speculation about them being thrown out of the competition but I cant see that happening, after all tickets have already been sold for the second leg. But there's bound to be some sanction and it's a nice baptism of fire for Platini in his own backyard.

I saw highlights of the other matches. I haven't really got anything to add to what's already been said about the Real-Bayern and PSV-Arsenal matches. Celtic were unbeaten at home yet again in European competition and had some good chances to score - generally from the excellent delivery of Shunsuke "he eats chow mein and he votes Sinn Fein" Nakamura. But Milan had chances as well - Boruc saved well in a one-on-one with Gilardino and Gattuso came close in the second half. Hard to tell from highlights, but I got the impression Milan dominated the second half without really creating much. It was important for Celtic to avoid conceding an away goal and they did that, so they have a chance in the second leg even if Milan are favourites.


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kevin
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Let's get something straight on the issue of quick free kicks: to prevent them would, in effect, reward the team that has just committed a foul. To say that they cannot be taken when a team has a scoring opportunity off the free kick brings too much judgment into the matter.

But I think some clarification is in order because it appears that many of the previous posters are under the impression that the referee can "sua sponte" decide to make the attackers wait for the whistle to proceed.

Not So.

Again, the rules try to reward the team that has just been fouled. Therefore, that team can restart play as quickly as it likes. if it chooses to do so and there is a player within 10 yards, so be it. If the team tries a quick restart and it doesn't work, they've essentially accepted that risk and play goes on -- as long as the player has not made any attempt to delay restart by actually defending within 10 yards. it's a little confusing, I know, but the essence is that the defenders cannot actively defend within 10 yards but if they are just there and get hit, disrupting the restart, play goes on.

Of course, the attacking team can, and often does, ask for its 10 yards. IT IS AT THIS POINT THAT THE REFEREE WILL RESTART PLAY ON THE WHISTLE. Again, the attackers don't have to request 10 yards, they accept the risk if they don't, but once they do ask for this distance, they now must wait.

Yes, this is why players often line up closer than 10 yards. As long as they're not being obnoxious about it (standing right on the ball or flailing about in order to cut off the immediate passing or shooting lanes) it generally results in the attacker asking for 10 and the referee moving the wall back. The more egregious violations or repeated violations will result in cards.
'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
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Manzanares
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From Simon's report it really does sound as if a tragedy was narrowly avoided. That is terrible and yes this will be Platini's first big decision. From what I understand this game was played at neighboring Lens because Lille's own stadium is inadequate, so what does that make Lens'?

About free kicks, despite Kevin's valid point about rewarding the team who committed the foul, I think if you permit teams to quickly take a free kick you are creating a situation where it will enable more teams to place players in front of the ball in order to allow them to set up a defensive wall. Sure the ref can card them but the players will quickly learn to stand in front of the ball long enough to disrupt the quickly taken free kick yet avoid a caution from the official.

As for the on field action, Real Madrid played well for a half but note how Cannavaro once more got lost defensively and allowed Lucio to head in Bayern's first goal. It looked to me like a combination of Madrid running out of gas and Capello getting overly cautious is what gave Bayern the opening to get back int the game. A one goal loss with two away goals scored isn't a bad result at all for Bayern as they return home.
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