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Sentence - not words, please !; how to write Slovianski... with sense
Topic Started: Sep 30 2014, 12:11 PM (1,588 Views)
bandziol20
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Reading from time to time Slovianski texts I’ve observed that there’s not so many if any guidelines how to write in Slovianski. Writing in Slovianski could present many difficulties for beginners.
The matter of words is more or less fixed by the Dictionary and the Lexicon (still many of words you'd like to use can't find either in the Dictionary nor in the Lexicon, anyway ).
The grammar of Slovianski is also fixed (at least at its basic level).
... but sometimes the problem begins with more subtle and complicate issues, like syntax and style.

Here, in this thread, I’d like to focus on the issue of a sentence in Slovianski. Many people want to translate from English to Slovianski or from their mother Slavic language : what shape my sentence should take, or whethers there's some procedure could be applied to do it.
I've thought that it could be a good place to think about it.
You can put your sentence here and describe your problem with it.
You can write in English or in your Slavic language and ask for some help how to translate that in Slovianski.
Of course, as it often happens, a proposed input-sentence in other language may contain such words that haven't occur yet in Slovianski (zero outputs in the Dictionary or the Lexicon). In such case, the most suitable place for asking is always a section called Slovnik ("Dictionary") in this forum. However, even in this unwelcome case we still can :
1. check if the words are really needed in the sentence
2. check if there's no other acceptable synonims to them
3. modify / transform the whole sentence in such a way that even if these particular words won't occur in their own body though the merit would be provided

All that means we haven't got a ready answer under a hand. It’s more like solving equatations with two or more unknowns. :ermm:
Let’s think together about problems. The main goal is that would be more available texts of good quality in Slovianski.
Discuss and arguments are welcome. The more ideas – the better ideas.
:)
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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bandziol20
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Here, I put that sentence for a try :

Apples, mushrooms and pork sounds a promising recipe for a kebab, but the average barbecuer might balk at adding strawberries. ;)

Let's assume for a while, that apples are= apple (or as one wishes jabloka), mushrooms are =~ mašrumy or sth alike, pork = pork, kebab = kebab etc.; what interests me more is the structure of such a sentence. How would you translate that ?
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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kliment

Jabloka, griby i svinina vypadajųt jako dobry recept za kebeb, no obyčajny grillař mogl by straniti prěd dodanjem zemnyh jagod.
Edited by kliment, Oct 9 2014, 10:16 AM.
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bandziol20
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This "vypadajųt jako dobry recept" <-- I find as a fine proposition to consider. :) My only concern is vy- that is not so popular prefix in Slovianski.
Nevertheless - the direction is good. That's pretty much of what I've meant starting this thread : the idea how the sentence could look like in Slovianski in order to be not so literally-depended on English. Brr... :(
So go ahead and share with your ideas ! :P
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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iopq
Administrator
kliment
Oct 9 2014, 10:13 AM
Jabloka, griby i svinina vypadajųt jako dobry recept za kebeb
to me that sounds like they "fall out" of consideration for a good kebab
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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bandziol20
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Hm... well could be... I haven't consider this way, but you can be right.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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kliment

A lesson is learned : avoid using of figurative expressions even when they are not unique for your native language . My first choice was “izględajųt” but probably the most understable would be “mogųt byti”. It sounds a bit boring though :) Maybe “jevit sę” would be acceptable as well ?

Naučena lekcija : straniti sę ot upotrebjanija metafor daže kogda ne sųt one jedinečne dlja tvojego matčina języka. Moj prvy izbor byl “izględajųt”, no prawdopodobno najboleje razumlivo bylo by “mogųt byti”. Zvųči to jedinako nemnogo nudno. Byti može , “jevit sę” bylo by takože ugodno ?
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bandziol20
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javiti se in Croatian means to reply, to answer (e.g. the phone), but nevermind. Still, maybe there are some other options.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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bandziol20
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My propositions for the 2nd part of the sentence :
- ale može ne byti celkom presvědčen o dodanju jagod*
- ale by mu ni na um ne padlo dodati jagody
- no by mu (raděje) i ne prišlo v glavu, aby dodati jagody
- no dodanje jagod by go (skorěje vsego / navěrno / vse-taky) veľmi (malo / nemalo ?) udivilo**.
- no s dodanjem jagod by moglo byti težko.

*caution : in Polish jagody means 'blackberries', and the name for 'strawberries' are 'truskawki'
**here I've used a phrase with a verb udiviti 'to amaze' (?) suggested by iopq.
BTW, the conjunction 'but' could be replaced by modification the whole sentence with a construction of two conjunctions : hoť ('although') ..., to ...
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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bandziol20
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Some sentences from the Economist article with my translation propositions into Slovianski :
Rise of the machines / Vozstup mašin
Artificial intelligence scares people—excessively so / Umě(je?)tna inteligencija straši ljudi - črez měru...
ELON MUSK busies himself building other people’s futures. / Elon Musk zanima se tvorenjem budučnosti drugih ljudi.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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kliment

Vschod mašin
Umějetna inteligencija strašit ljudiji - nadměrno
Elon Musk zaimajet sja tvorenijem budučnosti inyh ljudiji.

zanimati - Am i wrong, or this artificial n exists only in Russian?
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bandziol20
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vschod - in Polish sounds like wschód (east or sunrise), I'm not convinced whether it is a good choice here.
Zanimati exists also in sn and hr (+ probably in OCS), so it seems you are wrong at this point. :)
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Guppya

Also in Bulgarian: занимавам.
Prosim, propravjajte moje pogreški.
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bandziol20
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The first phrase of a song "Ghost town" :
(I) Died last night in my dreams

Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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iopq
Administrator
kliment
May 11 2015, 03:31 PM
zanimati - Am i wrong, or this artificial n exists only in Russian?
it's not artificial, it's taken from snimati by analogy
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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