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New User - Anglo; Potential for learning
Topic Started: Feb 26 2013, 07:37 PM (773 Views)
Fjo

Hi everyone, this is my first post and i've a couple of questions if that's ok. :)
I'm a native English speaker for whom languages are both a private interest and formal education subject. I'm learning or have experience to varying levels in several Germanic and Romance languages, but no real experience of Slavic languages to speak of. I've started looking at Russian with the help of books, Youtube and RT.com's online Russian language course, but it's slow going. I chose Russian because i've long been interested in the culture, do plan on travelling there at some point in the future (but that's a way off), and much of the Slavic media or influence here in England comes in large part from Russia. However, i'm also greatly interested in the wider Slavic culture(s), travel to as many of the related countries as possible, and in communication with natives online (ignorance is largely rife here about Eastern Europe and the people, i'd really like to learn and understand with more direct contact - not to mention the potential for increased immigration here, which for me presents a better chance for dialogue). I've spent a lot of time in various parts of Germany, so it's also conceivable that it may not be too long before a chance to visit either Poland or the Czech Republic presents itself.
However, my knowledge of any Slavic language is very limited and i only chose Russian initially because of (reasons above, and) its high number of speakers, but ideally i'd like to be able to converse on some level with as many people as possible, and then pursue further knowledge of localised examples if and when particularly worthwhile, rather than limit myself initially.
On this basis, would you say Slovianski is ideal for me? And how useful is an initial use of Slovianto from the point of view of native speakers? I think i'd initially start with the simplified variant before moving up to the wider intricacies.
This is a genuine interest, and i've seen Slovio elsewhere and lurked on these forums for a couple of days to try and gauge how everything is. I understand the difference between projects and yours does appeal more. My aim is to be understood by native speakers, even if learning is difficult for me, rather than just focusing on ease of use for myself with little consideration otherwise.
Thanks for your time and any answers/help you can provide.
- Fjo
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Fjo

Alternatively, would anyone actually say it'd be better for me to focus on a natively spoken Slavic language (like continuing Russian or trying Polish/Czech alone, initially), to get a grounding in something particular and a bit less open to variations in vocabulary - and then consider other languages/dialects/Slovianski from there?
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steeven
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FJO!
Welcome! Vitaj! Витај! Добродошли! Dobrodošli!
First, although this forum is called the "Slovianski" Forum - we formally changed the name of "Slovianski" to "Medžuslovjanski" or "Interslavic" at least a year or two ago - "MS" or "IS" for short.
Second, forget Slovianto. No one will use it. It was originally conceived as a kind of Slavic esperanto. However, if you wish to belabor yourself with that, then check out SLOVIO. However, only two people (at most) use Slovio. Don't waste your time.

I would absolutely urge that you study and explore MS.
Please visit the primary grammatical discussion site for MS @ www.medzuslovjanski.com or www.interslavic.net

In addition to INTERSLAVIC / MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI, which had its original beginnings in 2006, a lone computer science professor at a Prague University - VOJTECH MARUNKA - started a parallel panslavic effort in 2010 as an original attempt to modernize Old Church Slavonic.

Our MS version and MARUNKA's "Novosloviensky" version are very similar - although our MS version was designed to reflect the most commonly understood elements of the major Slavic languages with less or scant consideration of Old Church Slavonic.

I did help MARUNKA in preparing an introductory primer to Novosloviensky - or "Neoslavonic" - which was released on December 18, 2012 - which you may find HERE.

We will be publishing an ONLINE Primer for INTERSLAVIC some time this year.

Both INTERSLAVIC and Neoslavonic use the same Lexicon - containing approximately 12,000 words - HERE

There is also a much smaller "dictionary" available - which is available here.

Finally, we have a combined "Interslavic" & "Neoslavonic" BLOG - called "IZVIESTIJA" ("News") which can be found at:
IZVIESTIJA.INFO.
This is a great place to read and practice Interslavic.
We are also on Twitter > @Interslavic and @Izviestija
As far as which "real" or "natural" Slavic language would be best to learn - while you are learning Interslavic...
I would suggest Russian - if only because it is the most widely spoken Slavic language (+160 million people).
If you would like to discuss this further, please do feel free to contact me at: steeven@interslavic.com
Hvala!
Steeven Radzikowski
Edited by steeven, Feb 27 2013, 01:36 AM.
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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iopq
Administrator
It's going to be tough. The problem is that there is a lack of materials to explain Slovianski. For example, it's difficult to teach which noun case is used in a particular case. The problem is to get to the point that you can read izviestija with a dictionary since the grammar and morphology of Slovianski/Novoslovensky are very rich.

But I'd be glad to help!
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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bandziol20
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Quite interesting question. Well, to know Slovianski (especially grammar and some vocabulary on Jan's dictionary) would be useful even if you're going to learn Russian (or Polish, or Czech).
Of course, if you get to know Russian you will find quite solid startpoint to know other Slavic languages. It's like C++ for other computer languages.
But if you want just look around and know sth about Slavic languages, I would propose you Slovak from Western branch of Slavic. I think it's quite easy (and written in Latin ;) ). It's very similar to Czech and Polish in many aspects, but doesn't have so many exceptions. You will grasp what is all about with Slavic languages.

From Southern branch I would recommand Serbian/Croatian or Slovene which are quite easy (I enjoy them and my slavlang is based on them), and (so-so) close to Western branch languages.
I wouldn't recommand you Bulgarian or Macedonian, since they're odd.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Welcome welcome!

Well, it would be very weird if we'd be telling you NOT to learn Interslavic! :) Whether it is really worth the effort, that depends entirely on you and what you hope to accomplish with it. All I can to here is telling you what the advantages and the disadvantages are. To begin with the latter:
- Interslavic does not have a big corpus of literature, although there are a few books, articles and magazines in it.
- It is nobody's native language, so whoever you'll be talking to, you'll be talking to him/her in an understandable yet foreign language.
- For the same reason, it will be hard to attain any real fluency in it.
- It won't help you finding a job, and on your CV it will be quite worthless, I'm afraid.

But I wouldn't be here if Interslavic didn't have a few advantages as well:
- Knowing Interslavic, you will be able to make yourself understood to every single Slavic nationality. We know by now that it works.
- Knowing Interslavic, you will be able to read texts in any Slavic language. You won't understand everything, but you will get a more-than-basic impression.
- Because the basics of Interslavic are also the basics of the natural Slavic languages, you can always use it as the first step in learning one or more of them.
- Because it is nobody's native language, you don't have to worry that you make mistakes.
- It might be helpful in finding a job, and who knows, perhaps it will be a valuable addition to your CV. :))

A few words in response to Steeven:

Quote:
 
Second, forget Slovianto. No one will use it. It was originally conceived as a kind of Slavic esperanto.

Completely disagreed! Slovianto is not really meant to serve autonomously as a language at all, so whether others use it as well, is completely irrelevant. The idea of Slovianto is that it consists of the very basics of Slovianski, but in such form that it can already be used for actual communication. From that point of view, for a person who doesn't know any Slavic language yet, I would recommend it as a first step in learning Interslavic, with the additional advantage that you can use it already.

Quote:
 
However, if you wish to belabor yourself with that, then check out SLOVIO. However, only two people (at most) use Slovio. Don't waste your time.

I'm afraid that it this moment the number of Slovio uses has fallen down to zero. AFAIK there hasn't been ANY Slovio activity anymore since 2011. Even its author seems to have lost interest.

I'd like to point out, however, that Slovianto and Slovio are two very different things. Slovio is a complete language with an elaborate grammar, while Slovianto offers only some very basic solutions. It's two entirely different worlds, really. Slovio is deeply rooted in Esperanto: it has a grammar that it practically identical to Esperanto grammar, and its primary purpose is to serve as an international language. Slovianto, a far as you can call it a language at all, is only for the most basic communication with Slavs. It is definely not meant to write books or elaborate texts in it.

The reason why I would advise you against learning Slovio, is the fact that you will have to learn lots of things that bear no value in contacts with Slavs at all. In Slovianto there is nothing that doesn't exist in almost every Slavic language.

Hope this helps!

Jan
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
[čćч]
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steeven
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Jan is correct.
Slovianto is/would be a very helpful, simple means for a non-slavic speaker to communicate with a Slavic speaker.
One of the most challenging parts of learning a Slavic language is the declension of nouns (7 declension cases) and the use of the dual aspects of verbs - perfective versus imperfective.
Slovianto allows a non-speaker to communicate without having to learn declensions and verbal aspects - and to be reasonably understood.
I also agree with Jan about SLOVIO.
Welcome! :)
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
steeven
Mar 2 2013, 08:33 PM
One of the most challenging parts of learning a Slavic language is the declension of nouns (7 declension cases) and the use of the dual aspects of verbs - perfective versus imperfective.
Slovianto allows a non-speaker to communicate without having to learn declensions and verbal aspects - and to be reasonably understood.
That's right. In order to understand Slavic, you will have to know these cases (well, six of them, because the vocative is really not needed at all). But to make yourself understandable, you can manage perfectly well without them.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
[čćч]
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Kozica
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Dear Fjo in your country (uk), most people who speak russian, are not people from russia itself, but people from lithuania, latvia and estonia - EU members. There is vast russian minority in those countries so also lot of them settled in uk in recent years. But, according to home office, one percent of whole uk population speaks polish - yes, I know, odd but true.

Anyway, in uk you shouldn't have a problem with finding native speaker of any major slavic languages

EDIT: Rest of the thread has been moved to the Vocative thread
Edited by IJzeren Jan, Apr 6 2013, 11:19 AM.
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