| Dobrodošli na forum Medžuslovjanskogo jezyka! Želajemo vam mnogo prijemnosti. Добродошли на форум Меджусловјанского језыка! Желајемо вам много пријемности. Welcome to Interslavic! We hope you enjoy your visit. Sejčas pogledajete naše forum kako gosť. To znači, že imajete ograničeny dostup do někojih česti forum i ne možete koristati vse funkcije. Ako li pristupite v našu grupu, budete imati svobodny dostup do sekcij preznačenyh jedino za členov, na pr. založeňje profila, izsylaňje privatnyh poslaň i učestničstvo v glasovaňjah. Zapisaňje se jest prosto, bystro i vpolno bezplatno. Сејчас погледајете наше форум како гость. То значи, же имајете ограничены доступ до некојих чести форум и не можете користати все функције. Ако ли приступите в нашу групу, будете имати свободны доступ до секциј презначеных једино за членов, на пр. заложеньје профила, изсыланьје приватных послань и учестничство в гласованьјах. Записаньје се јест просто, быстро и вполно безплатно. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Pristupite v našu grupu! Приступите в нашу групу! Join our community! Ako li už jeste člen, prijavite se, že byste mogli koristati vse možnosti: Ако ли уж јесте член, пријавите се, же бысте могли користати все можности: If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
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| Prošu o pomoč s gramatikoju i slovnictvom | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 17 2012, 06:53 PM (1,064 Views) | |
| iopq | Nov 20 2012, 09:48 AM Post #16 |
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I know it was, so? The system I liked was -e and -i endings only Jan has it all backwards: dome, mužu just seems unetymological Edited by iopq, Nov 20 2012, 09:50 AM.
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| bandziol20 | Nov 20 2012, 09:51 AM Post #17 |
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What do you mean ? Could you give some examples ?
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| iopq | Nov 20 2012, 10:00 AM Post #18 |
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I mean just simplifying the OCS declension into two cases: -e in most cases -i in others distribution is up to you ![]() or rather, I haven't decided yet all the cases |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| bandziol20 | Nov 20 2012, 10:08 AM Post #19 |
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Oh, I didn't realize it hasn't been fixed yet. So genitive from nadeja is nadej-i / nadej-e (user's choice). And just for curiosity : what do 169 millions of speakers pick ? |
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Nov 20 2012, 01:03 PM Post #20 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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I think Igor is talking about the locative, not the genitive. Right? Personally, I'm not a fan of genitives on -e. Problem is that many languages don't have ANY genitives on -e. I don't think we need genitives on -u either. As for the locative masculine and neuter nouns, we have the following options: - always -ě no matter what comes first (but then you also get v morje and v polje). - -i after soft consonants (OCS): pri muži, v morji. - -u after soft consonants (happens a lot): pri mužu, v morju - -u after k/g/h (v jezyku - which I think is better than v jezykě, because in that case v jezyce would be more logical) Frankly, I can live with any solution, but three different endings would be good IMO and "jezyke" looks kind of awkward to me. [čćч] |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| nonik | Nov 21 2012, 08:02 AM Post #21 |
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vsejaky heroj i strahopetec tako kako to imajes - v kontextu, razumlivo bez problema. v osamoteniju byh imal problem. |
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| bandziol20 | Nov 29 2012, 05:21 PM Post #22 |
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Ok, tellur, what's Your final version ? Or perhaps, someone else has his own translation of this text into Slovianski ?
Edited by bandziol20, Nov 30 2012, 10:47 AM.
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| steeven | Nov 29 2012, 05:30 PM Post #23 |
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"...someone else has
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| tellur | Nov 29 2012, 07:05 PM Post #24 |
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Moja "konečna" verzija jest v mojem poste, izmenil jesm togo toľko malo
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| My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements. | |
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| nonik | Nov 30 2012, 09:04 AM Post #25 |
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jeszcze jedin koment imaju, mozhno by bylo liepszeje v miestu VSE-JAKY HEROJ, dati VSE-KAKY heroj. No otvisi to ot tebe, daj czo je libo za tebe. |
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| iopq | Nov 30 2012, 09:54 AM Post #26 |
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well, you'd probably include Ukrainian in the list of "no -e genitives" but that would be deceptive because we're really talking about a -ie genitive (NS orthography) or -ѣ (cyrillic) which Ukrainian does have in just about every case (except after velars) and v moře/v poľe are completely valid Russian forms they don't sound strange to the Ukrainian ear either (since Ukrainians mentally replace -e with -i) I wouldn't mind -i everywhere after a soft consonant, but I wouldn't mind keeping -e jezyke is more of a Russism/simplified form (kind of like prosijut), it should either be jezyku or jezyce |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Nov 30 2012, 03:37 PM Post #27 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Again, are you talking about genitives or about locatives? Novosloviensky has genitives on -e in cases like "duše", "matere", "imene" etc. However, much as I believe in flexibility, there is one rule of design in Slovianski that I think we should stick to as much as possible: Most important is that every grammatical ending is instantly recognisable, even if the inflected form of a word looks different in someone's own language. For example, most Slavic languages can have various endings for the genitive singular of a masculine noun, but there is one ending they all have in common: -a, which therefore is the solution for all occurrences of this form. Most Slavic languages do not have a single genitive on -e, therefore I think this ending is not warranted.
Okay, but then please tell, why do you mind -u? All in all, I am afraid that whatever we pin down as a rule, only non-Slavs will abide. Others will just do as they please, like they have been doing until now. Frankly, I don't think it matters very much which endings we pick. Options are numerous:
I am not much in favour of the idea of adding second palatalisation, which would make things way more complicated than necessary for a lot of people. Besides, a locative "jezyce" would also kind of imply a nominative plural "jezyci". I am not much in favour of using only -u either, because for most nouns goes that this solution has only 1 vote (against 4 for -ě). At least after velars the locative ending -u is practically universal in Slavic (even in Ukrainian and Belarussian). So to avoid second palatalisation of velars, I can imagine two solutions:
For understandability it doesn't make much of a difference. [čćч] |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| bandziol20 | Dec 1 2012, 10:17 AM Post #28 |
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Heh... what to say, now - it seems to me the earlier version was better. It's a sooo heavy load, really, I had to force myself to read it.Two places (constructions) were not clear for me :
what's a sense of this ? Is it consistent with an original sense ? I don't quite understand the second part of this statement. |
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| iopq | Dec 4 2012, 06:04 AM Post #29 |
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Administrator
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I meant locative and jezyce doesn't imply nominative plural jezyci, because Ukr. has jazyky with -y borrowed from the feminine flexion, which Russian also shares Old East Slavic had jazyci, but it got changed to jazyky under the influence of žena -> ženy or similar notice that non-velars also have this: bolgary not bolgari from bolgarin ky -> ki change in Russian and that's how you get jazyki I'm ok with u after velars, but counting BCS is wrong, it doesn't have a locative case, it copies forms from dative all forms if you argue accent differences that's not right either, because then you'd have to have 13 noun cases in Russian (where meaning is decided by lexical stress) Edited by iopq, Dec 4 2012, 06:12 AM.
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Dec 4 2012, 01:33 PM Post #30 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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I basically agree with you. The only thing I'm not comfortable with is completely ignoring BCS and Slovene here, because even if the locative forms come from the dative, it is still a fact that any grammar lists them as "locative", not "dative". That is an important difference with Bulgarian, you won't find a grammar that says: "In Bulgarian, the locative of море is море". Therefore I do take into account South Slavic locatives on -u, just like I take into account Ukrainian and Slovak locatives on -ovi. It's just that the latter don't make it majority-wise anyway. Looking at majorities: hard: -ě, obviously soft: -i or -u velar: -u I can't see anything wrong in proposing multiple solutions in this case, but I'm not against a three-way distinction. However, I think we'll do ourselves a great favour if we can avoid second palatalisation. [čćч] |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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2:16 PM Jul 11