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Teach yourself book of Slovianski language?
Topic Started: Nov 5 2012, 08:18 PM (2,154 Views)
esra

Hey,

are there any plans to create an book "Teach Yourself Slovianski/Neoslavonic"?

http://www.sourcefabric.org/en/booktype/ (needs server space setup)
http://www.createspace.com/ (no server setup needed)

Furthermore, if you incidentely would come along Freiburg/Breisgau in Germany by next year. Please join Interlingua event and present there language Slovianski/Neoslavonik/Interslavic. Interlingua (romanic) community is open to collaboration of Interslavic community. You're welcome by heart :-)

http://www.interlingua.com/official/2012-08-28-conferentia2013

regards,
Edited by esra, Dec 14 2014, 01:11 AM.
Radio Pruno
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steeven
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Erik,
Looks interesting.
Thank you!
:)
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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iopq
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It would be cool if someone could go.

Re: the book, someone would have to write it first. The question is, what's the best format for a "teach yourself language X" book?
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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bandziol20
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BTW : what a rich library.
http://www.interlingua.com/e-libros/
They've got also radio and films.
http://www.interlingua.com/radio
http://www.interlingua.com/films
I must say I'm impressed. The language itself also seems very nice.
One title I've found : Un aventura curiose del Baron von Münchhausen in Polonia :P
Heh.
Glasovanje je čista glupost. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjanski. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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esra

Hey,

Firstly, with that post I don't intend to flush that Slovianski forum board with Interlingua topics. Its only for give some possible excamples of learning concepts. Being non-linguistic by myself I feel Slovianski/Neoslavonic(slavic; mostly agglutinative?) and Interlingua (romanic, mostly non-agglutinative, isolating) to "complement one another". It would be great if both communities would intercommunicate.

(To whom are interested to discuss standardization/prototyping matters of Interlingua "Mulaik, Stanley A" pscccsm#prism.gatech.edu could be proper contact. Replace # with @)

Anyway, most matured teaching material of Interlingua seems to be "Interlingua Today" by F.P. Gopsill. Currently I try to translate it into German.

UMI created some kind of kickstarter teaching book material. Maybe that form could fit Slovianski/Neoslavonic, too?

Eo Teach Yourself(50 MB pdf file hosted at dropbox.com)

Apart that matters presseurop.eu could be good "test field" for current news in Interslavic/Interlingua.

regards,






Edited by esra, Nov 6 2012, 08:24 PM.
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Welcome Erik, and thanks for your refreshing ideas!

First of all, I'd love to come to Freiburg and do some kind of presentation about Interslavic. It's not that far away! At this point I cannot tell yet whether I will be able to come in that period, though.

As for learning materials, I think there are two things to consider.

One problem with Interslavic is that it is not a closed language with a fixed grammar. Many different grammars exist, most of them going back to the 19th century or earlier, a few of them (including Slovianski and Novosloviensky) are more recent. While they are mutually perfectly understandable, writing a course would require giving precedence of one model over another. To give one stupid example: Slovianski uses -mo in the first person plural, Novosloviensky uses -me. But then, there are also people who use -mo in NS. All in all, the difference is a matter of one's personal taste. But a course requires that one option be picked, not both. Even if we disregard older projects, we still have to face differences between both active projects. Now, I honestly can't see the point of offering both a Slovianski and a Novosloviensky course at the same time - that would only create needless rivalry and cause confusion among potential learners. We should first see in how far differences can be eliminated and both systems can merge into one.

The second issue is a practical one: who would be the target audience? Language courses are usually written for people who learn it from zero; in other words, it doesn't matter whether they are Russian, English or Chinese. However, the target audience of Interslavic are Slavs, and the people using it are for 90% Slavs as well, or at least people already knowing a Slavic language. And here's the problem: a course written for a person who doesn't know any Slavic language would look completely different from a course written specifically for Poles, Russians or Serbs. We know by experience that people learn Interslavic NOT by studying courses or grammar tables and the like, but simply by reading and writing texts. In other words, the key to learning Interslavic is pointing out the differences between it and one's native language. And these differences vary from one language to another.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
[čćч]
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iopq
Administrator
Slavic languages are not agglutinative at all, they are highly fusional

Jan: I can make a choice in all of these cases
it will be arbitrary, but it will be definitive!

Novosloviensky is of course for fans of OCS, kind of a different goal - to modernize OCS as an interslavic language

So in fact, there are several PLUGGABLE levels of MS

1. Orthography - your pick (cyrillic like Russian, cyrillic like Serbian, Slovianski latin, Sl latin in ascii, NS latin, NS latin in ascii)
2. Grammar - your pick (Slovianski, NS)
3. Vocabulary - your pick (Slovianski, NS)

using one of the levels is compatible with others
even if I write with OCS-derived words I am not forced to use the dual
Edited by iopq, Nov 7 2012, 03:24 AM.
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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bandziol20
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IJzeren Jan
Nov 7 2012, 12:52 AM
But a course requires that one option be picked, not both. Even if we disregard older projects, we still have to face differences between both active projects. Now, I honestly can't see the point of offering both a Slovianski and a Novosloviensky course at the same time - that would only create needless rivalry and cause confusion among potential learners.
Of course, a course requires that one option is picked : it's practically unavoidable, even though you would establish Interslavic somewhere in future. Maybe, offering two projects create rivalry (me - I don't think so), but offering nothing is the worst option. I would take a risk. I think it's better to present our Slovianski approach of picking words and compare with Vojta's Novoslovenski than present nothing. Remember : Potential learners are only potential. They don't exist, if you don't convince people to use your product.
Quote:
 
We should first see in how far differences can be eliminated and both systems can merge into one.
What if differences appear to be so far, that would be unbearable in practice. Are you going to resign from both projects and start with a third one ? or only from your own ? or from Vojta's ?

Quote:
 
And here's the problem: a course written for a person who doesn't know any Slavic language would look completely different from a course written specifically for Poles, Russians or Serbs. We know by experience that people learn Interslavic NOT by studying courses or grammar tables and the like, but simply by reading and writing texts. In other words, the key to learning Interslavic is pointing out the differences between it and one's native language.

I think both courses (for Slavs and non-Slavs) are needed. We could start from a typical course for Slavs, because - I think - it would be easier in writing. On the other hand I think course for non-Slavs could appear more successful.
Beside this, there are of course many other issues :
- maybe we should write the course first ? and than check if it is good ? and what to improve ?
- maybe the former course whatever it was has many flaws both in merit and form ?
- maybe this statement is true : "people learn Interslavic by reading and writing texts" ? So what ? So maybe : we should give them good texts to read ? Don't you think ? So maybe a read book ? Of course, Interslavic is not so completely "unfixed", but it's not the point for waiting. It resembles me a situation with Irish which has also many, very different dialects, and if you learn "Irish" you often learn some kind of dialect from Dublin or Belfast, but it apparently doesn't mind to edit new Irish handbooks. And Slavic languages doesn't really more differ than Irish dialects. :P
Edited by bandziol20, Nov 8 2012, 10:01 AM.
Glasovanje je čista glupost. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjanski. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
iopq
Nov 7 2012, 03:20 AM
So in fact, there are several PLUGGABLE levels of MS

1. Orthography - your pick (cyrillic like Russian, cyrillic like Serbian, Slovianski latin, Sl latin in ascii, NS latin, NS latin in ascii)
2. Grammar - your pick (Slovianski, NS)
3. Vocabulary - your pick (Slovianski, NS)

using one of the levels is compatible with others
Şure, but all those pluggable levels will hardly make any course attractive for newbies. Take a simple sentence like "Ja imaju dobrogo konja". It requires explanation of at least a few things:
- how "imaju" is formed from "imati"
- how "dobrogo" is formed from "dobry"
- how "konja" is formed from "konj"
- that in the case of animate masculine nouns the accusative takes the same form as the genitive.

That is already quite some info. But now we also must explain people that instead of "imaju" they can also use "imam" or even "imati"; that instead of "dobrogo" they should write "dobrego" if they want to follow NS rules; that instead of "konja" they should actually be writing "koňa" if they want to follow Slovianski rules; and that instead of "dobrogo konja" they might as well write "dobry konj".

If you all that into a course, people will run away screamingly. People want to learn Interslavic, they don't care about voting systems and they don't care about differences in taste between, say, Mr. Radzikowski and Mr. Merunka. They want simple answers.

[čćч]
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
[čćч]
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esra

Interlingua also were created by using well-tested prototyping system. Mulaik, Stanley A published book inside he very detailed describes that prototyping process. I'm not that specialist if prototyping process of Interlingua could work for Interslavic and if that would make any sense.

I already sent email to him for join ongoing discussion here.

Furthermore. Also some member of MIE project works at teaching material. teaching material(alpha version).

http://dnghu.org/modern-indo-european/Modern%20Indoeuropean%20IE009.pdf
Edited by esra, Nov 7 2012, 06:53 PM.
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esra

IJzeren Jan
Nov 7 2012, 12:52 AM
First of all, I'd love to come to Freiburg and do some kind of presentation about Interslavic. It's not that far away! At this point I cannot tell yet whether I will be able to come in that period, though.

That would be great, Jan :-)

Please take care. There are several towns in Germany which named Freiburg. The IA-conf will happen in Freiburg/Breisgau.

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garbelygoo

deleted
Edited by garbelygoo, Nov 9 2012, 03:55 PM.
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esra

Hopefully that could add some further discussion base to develop Interslavic prototype techniques.

Mulaik Stanley A: Interlingua Grammar and Method: Chapter 10 - Interlinguistic Standardization

  • Preliminary considerations
  • Historical basis for internationality
  • Eligibility of international words
  • Standardization of form: prototypes


Furthermore: Neoslavonic now available as pdf file download.


Edited by esra, Nov 10 2012, 12:02 PM.
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Vojta
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NS
esra
Nov 5 2012, 08:18 PM
Hey,

are there any plans to create an book "Teach Yourself Slovianski/Neoslavonic"?

http://www.sourcefabric.org/en/booktype/ (needs server space setup)
http://www.createspace.com/ (no server setup needed)

Furthermore, if you incidentely would come along Freiburg/Breisgau in Germany by next year. Please join Interlingua event and present there language Slovianski/Neoslavonik/Interslavic. Interlingua (romanic) community is open to collaboration of Interslavic community. You're welcome by heart :-)

http://www.interlingua.com/official/2012-08-28-conferentia2013

regards,

Erik




Dear Erik, Hello everybody!

I started web page http://www.neoslavonic.org. Now there is a complete on-line tutorial in English and Polish. Other language mutation are in preparation.

Moreover, I am finishing printed book on Neoslavonic as a dialect of Interslavic (see more info inside). This is based on the English on-line tutorial, but has more info. Reviewers of this book will be people from universities (linguists/sociologists/anthopologists/tourist industry expert from Prague, Zagreb, Plovdiv and Be'er Sheva) and from the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Constantinople.

Here You can download the preliminary text: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/13277505/neoslavonic-tutorial.pdf

About the conference in 2013 and alliance with Interlingua: This is very good news, indeed! Definitely we want to move our effort bit forward.

But please, understand, that the year 2013 will be very hectic - this is the jubilee 1150 years of Christianity of Slavic nations and we will participate (due to our link to the Old Church Slavonic language) in some conferences and cultural events. Moreover, Neoslavonic will be used in film. Yes, some persons in the film "Painted Bird" based on the novel by Jerzy Kosinski will speak Interslavic/Neoslavonic. (http://www.filmneweurope.com/news/czech/102636-production-the-painted-bird-in-development/menu-id-150) - Scenario of this film will be presented at the Film Festival in Cannes 2013 and will participate in the contest ScripTeast of the best 12 Central and East European scenarios.

best regards
Vojta

Vojta
http://sites.google.com/site/novoslovienskij
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steeven
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Vojta!
That is excellent news!
Hvala!


PS: I would like to speak with you and Jan vS about the Lexicon. We are migrating to a new server & host. We would like to add some additional "features" to the Lexicon. Your suggestions and ideas are welcomed - as are those of everyone else here too! (Bandziol, Nonik, Tellur, Igor, Aquarius i.t.d.........) :D
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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