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Orthography with hyphenation
Topic Started: Sep 16 2012, 11:20 AM (852 Views)
iopq
Administrator
Let's take an example like na primer/naprimer
I think there's no real reason to write most prepositions together like nedobry
although in the case of nekto it should be written together to distinguish from ne kto
ja jesm ne kto - I'm nobody
ja jesm nekto - I'm somebody (who you don't know)

but in cases where writing together is the standard, like dobrobyt I propose to write it hyphenated instead
like dobro-byt
the reason for this is speakers of languages that don't have this word will be able to break it down into morphemes more readily

1. Try to write prepositions separately
2. Hyphenate long compounds
What do you think of this? Is it worth changing the way that we write words?
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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Gabriel Svoboda

I know it would be easier to read, but it is quite ugly at the same time.
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iopq
Administrator
I think Ru. восьмидесятичетырёхлетний is fairly unreadable
Edited by iopq, Sep 16 2012, 10:06 PM.
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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bandziol20
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"I think there's no real reason to write most prepositions together"
Writing together underlines a conventional use of the phrase, often adding a specific meaning to it. Comp. Russian : вовремя with a written apart : во время.
Let's take for example your example : naprimjer, which means "for example". Writing together at once points out that it is a typical adverbial, we needn't look for a different meaning (what example ?, "the" or "an", and so on).

napisa > napiše (since we've got an infinitive pisati but a stem piš- in the present tense)
Edited by bandziol20, Sep 18 2012, 09:19 AM.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Kozica
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logiczno, jak nekto napisa neczo razom, to znaczi, że pisatel nehce aby czitatel razmyslal o tamtyh slovah oddelno.

dla togo ja vsegdy byl by pisal "naprimjer"
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iopq
Administrator
In Russian на пример and например mean somewhat different things

1) "Можно указать на пример, рассмотренный ранее"
2) "Можно, например, пойти в кино"

do we really need to distinguish so finely?
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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iopq
Administrator
btw, к примеру is ALWAYS written separately
can someone come up with a consisten rule for this?
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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bandziol20
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RULE : If it is a fixed, wide-spread phrase, you can write it together. If you have any doubts about it, write apart.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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tellur
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iopq
Sep 18 2012, 03:46 AM
In Russian на пример and например mean somewhat different things

1) "Можно указать на пример, рассмотренный ранее"
2) "Можно, например, пойти в кино"

do we really need to distinguish so finely?
Nope, we don't imo. But it would be great to have fine, precise semantic meanings.
My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements.
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iopq
Administrator
bandziol20
Sep 18 2012, 09:15 AM
RULE : If it is a fixed, wide-spread phrase, you can write it together. If you have any doubts about it, write apart.
Dobryden' then
Edited by iopq, Sep 19 2012, 02:06 AM.
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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steeven
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WAT?! ....that definitely looks funny.... :blink:
Edited by steeven, Sep 19 2012, 04:11 AM.
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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bandziol20
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Heh... however in Polish we've got dobranoc for "good night" :)
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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iopq
Administrator
bandziol20
Sep 19 2012, 07:41 AM
Heh... however in Polish we've got dobranoc for "good night" :)
Exactly, there's no consistency here in natlangs, not between the languages, not even inside one language

How can we derive a consistent rule?
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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bandziol20
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Well, we could limit it for adverbial use in sentences, but not in greetings, for example. :P
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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iopq
Administrator
bandziol20
Sep 19 2012, 08:52 AM
Well, we could limit it for adverbial use in sentences, but not in greetings, for example. :P
So ksožaleniju would be written together? I mean we'd probably choose something like nažaľ, but the point stands, do we write every adverb together, even if the source doesn't?

Furthermore, does that mean we would write dobra noč and dobro došli? I'm OK with that, let's decide what we do in other cases as well so it's clear to everyone
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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