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VERBS PARADE
Topic Started: Aug 14 2012, 08:50 AM (4,506 Views)
steeven
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Why is "DOOR" a plural noun in most Slavic languages?
Proto-Indo-European and Cognates:

Proto-Indo-European Roots

Root/Stem: *dhwer-, *dhwor-

Meanings: a doorway, a door, a gate

Cognates:

> Greek - thura (a door) - a feminine a-stem noun

> Latin - foris (a door), foras (out the house), forum - the initial f- proves it used to be *dh-, not *d-
> Umbrian - furo, furu (a forum)

> Common Celtic - *dor- (a door) >
> Insular Celtic - *doressuh - a suffix -est- was added;
> Gaulish - doro (a mouth)
> Welsh & Breton - dor
> Old Irish - dorus
> Irish Gaelic - doras
> Scottish Gaelic - dorus or dorust (dialectal)
> Old Cornish - dor
> Cornish - daras

> Common Germanic - *dur- (a doorway) with a semi-vowel replacing a root vowel;
> Gothic - dauro (gate)
> Old English - duru (a door)
> Old High German - turi
> Old Norse - dyrr

> Sanskrit - dvárah (a door, gate)
> Avestan - dvar (a door)
> Old Persian - duvaraya (outside)

> Armenian - durkh (acc. a door)

> Thracian - dur, dero-v (a fence)

> Albanian - derë (a gate)

> Common Baltic - *duaris (gate)
> Lithuanian - durys (plural for "doors")
> Latvian - duris
> Old Prussian - dwaris (gate)
> Sudovian - dvaris (gate)

> Common Slavic - *dverď (gate)
> Slovene - duri (plural - doors)
> Czech - dveri
> Polish - drzwi
> Upper Sorbian - durje
> Lower Sorbian - z'urja (doors)
> Ukrainian - dveri
> Russian - dver' (a door - singular > dveri - plural)
> Belorussian - dzwery (doors)

Notes: The noun was feminine and i-stem, though later in some groups (Indic, Greek) it migrated into a-stems.

Some scientists think that the plural form is so frequent because of the meaning "doors": two halves of the gate.
It had dual number, and such a fact is still shown in Russian where the word for "gate" is vorota, the former dual form.

So why does Russian alone use the singular and plural forms? (perhaps Upper Sorian is singular also - I don't know)
:ermm:

Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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bandziol20
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steeven
Aug 24 2012, 12:31 AM
> Greek - thura (a door) - a feminine a-stem noun
I've seen also form thyra.

Quote:
 
> Slovene - duri (plural - doors)

In Slovene (and Croatian) there was also dveri (plur., rarely : sg. dver (f.)) and diminutive : dverce.
OCS. *dvьrь, *dvьri

Quote:
 
Some scientists think that the plural form is so frequent because of the meaning "doors": two halves of the gate.
I agree.
Quote:
 
So why does Russian alone use the singular and plural forms?
Maybe, Russian is more conservative in this case :)
USB durje is plural. I think Slovene duri and USorb durje could arise by influence of German turi.

Interesting here is Polish with metathese : regular dwrzi (after lost of yers) was hard to pronounce.
It involved to arise irregular form : drzwi (with metathese) and irregular form dźwierze (neutr., now dial.) for two-winged door. Here goes odźwierny for "doorman, porter".
Edited by bandziol20, Aug 24 2012, 08:39 AM.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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bandziol20
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TO WRING (~ to squeeze or twist liquid out)
Example :
Caroline has been swimming.
Now she will wring out her bathing suit. + { She will twist the bathing suit until most of the water is out.}
usb = (wu- pf.)žimać (< ždźimać)
pl = wyżąć (pf., 1st sg wyżmę) / wyżymać (ip.)
cz = (vy- pf.)ždímat
sk = (vy- pf.)žmýkať
sn = (iz- /o-)-žeti (pf., 1st sg -žmem) / -žemati (ip.)
hr = izažeti (pf., izažmem) / izažimati (ip.)
ru = выжать (pf., 1st sg выжму) / выжимать (ip.)

TO WADE
Example :
Children wade at the seashore. { They walk through the water. }
Some birds (storks, flamingos) wade, too.
usb = brodźić
pl = brodzić
cz = brodit se
sk = brodiť sa
sn = bresti*, broditi
hr = gacati, gaziti
bg = газя, цапам, шляпам
ru = брести*, идти вброд, бродит

(*comp. with vesti : voditi )
Edited by bandziol20, Sep 9 2012, 12:36 PM.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Kozica
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ej! po malom.

"brodzić" jest od "bród" (ford)

prvy ty najdl slovo na "ford"

tudy budemo "fordit"
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bandziol20
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Frankly : doesn't matter. The same is with verbs like vesti : voziti and a noun voz for wagon. Do we need voz to have voziti ? Of course, sometimes is worth to analyze a base, when a verb is long or complicated, but it isn't this case.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Kozica
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tak, ibo "brodzić" jest velmi specificzne slovo. Ono znaczi prosto "hodit po melkoj vode" Ono ime nekogdy ine znaczenja v ploski i bezsumno v inyh jezykah, ale li jego trebisz?
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bandziol20
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Well, it could be used also "to walk in dampy or slashy land : in marsh, in sand, or in snow (often with difficulty), to plod, to saunter (comp. Polish brnąć ip. < brdnąti)".
BTW : In Croatian 'brod' means 'a ship'.
Edited by bandziol20, Sep 9 2012, 12:40 PM.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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Kozica
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teżki hod prez bloto, moczary.

idemo teżkim hodem prez pesok, prez sneg, jest teżko jak prez brod

myslim tak jest lepszej. Ibo "brodim prez pesok" to jak molvisz, hrvat może razumit "lad'ju prez pesok"
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nonik

idemo tezkimi kroky/krokami
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Kozica
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toż możno :p
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iopq
Administrator
бродить in Russian just means "to wonder around", nothing about water
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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bandziol20
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Kozica
Sep 9 2012, 01:25 PM
Ibo "brodim prez pesok" to jak molvisz, hrvat może razumit "lad'ju prez pesok"
Could, but In Croatian meaning broditi = to wade is also known, though it's not so popular.

Quote:
 
бродить in Russian just means "to wonder around", nothing about water

Yeah... I know it. Nowadays that is : 1. to wander around, to roam, to ramble 2. to stroll 3. to surf (on Internet). (btw : for surfing in Internet you also needn't water ;) )
I think it has changed figuratively : to walk through the water ~ without purpose* ---> to walk (through the water) without purpose ---> to walk without purpose.

Interestingly, that in Slovenian we have a bit similar situation, where forms of verb iti 'to go' in present time have been pushed off by old Slavic verb gręsti (comp. Polish grząski, grzęznąć, pogrążyć) - to go through a marsh, to plod. We have there :
Jaz grem - I go (no : Jaz idem !), ti greš - you go etc.
I think this change could appeared because of the fact that Slavic area was rather dampy and slushy. :D

*with purpose or in one direction would be : брести
Edited by bandziol20, Sep 10 2012, 08:07 AM.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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bandziol20
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TO REALIZE (~ to be aware of, to grasp mentally)
Examples :
I realized my limitations.
I'm beginning to realize how difficult this job is.
At first I thought he was joking, but then I realized he was serious.
When I got home I realized that I had left my keys at the office.
I had stood there for several minutes before he realized my presence.
No sooner had I shut the door than I realized that I'd left my keys inside.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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nonik

poznal jesm svojih limitov
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
bandziol20
Sep 29 2013, 12:06 PM
I realized my limitations.
Ja pojel jesm svoje ograničenja.
Quote:
 
I'm beginning to realize how difficult this job is.
Načinaju pojmati, kako to jest težko zadanje.
Quote:
 
At first I thought he was joking, but then I realized he was serious.
Prvo myslel jesm, že on žartuje, ale potom srazuměl jesm, že govori seriozno.
Quote:
 
When I got home I realized that I had left my keys at the office.
Vrativši do doma pojel jesm, že ostavil ključe v ofise.
Quote:
 
I had stood there for several minutes before he realized my presence.
Ja stojal tamo už od několikih minut, kogda on vzprijel moje prisučstvo.
Quote:
 
No sooner had I shut the door than I realized that I'd left my keys inside.
Doprva zatvorivši dveri pojel jesm, že ostavil svoje ključi vnutri.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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