| Dobrodošli na forum Medžuslovjanskogo jezyka! Želajemo vam mnogo prijemnosti. Добродошли на форум Меджусловјанского језыка! Желајемо вам много пријемности. Welcome to Interslavic! We hope you enjoy your visit. Sejčas pogledajete naše forum kako gosť. To znači, že imajete ograničeny dostup do někojih česti forum i ne možete koristati vse funkcije. Ako li pristupite v našu grupu, budete imati svobodny dostup do sekcij preznačenyh jedino za členov, na pr. založeňje profila, izsylaňje privatnyh poslaň i učestničstvo v glasovaňjah. Zapisaňje se jest prosto, bystro i vpolno bezplatno. Сејчас погледајете наше форум како гость. То значи, же имајете ограничены доступ до некојих чести форум и не можете користати все функције. Ако ли приступите в нашу групу, будете имати свободны доступ до секциј презначеных једино за членов, на пр. заложеньје профила, изсыланьје приватных послань и учестничство в гласованьјах. Записаньје се јест просто, быстро и вполно безплатно. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Pristupite v našu grupu! Приступите в нашу групу! Join our community! Ako li už jeste člen, prijavite se, že byste mogli koristati vse možnosti: Ако ли уж јесте член, пријавите се, же бысте могли користати все можности: If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Assimilation by softness | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 3 2012, 08:39 AM (1,412 Views) | |
| bandziol20 | Jun 8 2012, 09:46 AM Post #16 |
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OK. Just correct this :
tvorba '(art)work' ? (from tvoriti 'to make, to create') usb = twórba cz = tvorba sn = tvorba hr = tvorba Edited by bandziol20, Jun 8 2012, 10:00 AM.
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| iopq | Jun 9 2012, 03:19 AM Post #17 |
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tvor'ba if it's the same suffix as bor'ba |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| bandziol20 | Jun 9 2012, 06:44 AM Post #18 |
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imO we should simplify it. |
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Jun 9 2012, 01:38 PM Post #19 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Remember that piśmo, svaťba, bořba, poľski are prototypes. Anyone is free to write pismo, svatba, borba, polski. [čćч] |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| steeven | Jun 9 2012, 09:05 PM Post #20 |
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Some words to consider: Serbo-Croation: creature = stvorenje creation = stvaranje creative = stvaralački stvoriti = to create stvarati = to create, to produce tvoriti - to be constituent of, to form Russian: творить - create, act, run, operate (impf) сотворить - create, make, originate (perf) боготворить - idolize, worship, adore затворить - close, shut олицетворить - represent, personify, embody отворить - open претворить - realize, translate; convert, transform (претворять impf) растворить - dilute, dissolve, solve (растворять) удовлетворить - please, satisfy, sustain натворить - do, cause, get up to притворить - half-close (притворять) умиротворить - pacify, appease, conciliate (умиротворять impf) Polish: tworzyć - create (impf) stworzyć - create (perf) otworzyć - open, inaugurate, release utworzyć - establish, found, launch, install, create, form, shape |
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| iopq | Jun 10 2012, 04:52 AM Post #21 |
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veřba would be something like "belief" from veriti |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| bandziol20 | Jun 10 2012, 07:56 AM Post #22 |
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but it shouldn't. IMO it should be just : vrba. |
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| bandziol20 | Jun 10 2012, 09:06 AM Post #23 |
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stvorenje as a gerund from a perfective verb stvoriti mean both an achievement of the action (creation of sth) and a product of an action (creature). stvaranje is a gerund from an iterative imperfective verb stvarati which is derived from a perfective stvoriti (in Slovianski it probably should be : stvoriti - stvarJati - stvarJanje, Polish : stworzyć - stwarzać - stwarzanie). It means : "making new things again and again". For 'creation' as a human activity itself (with no define final effect) could be also tvorjenje as a durative process, from imperfective tvoriti. Heh... watch out ! These two don't exactly fit to this family of tvoriti 'to create'. They have appeared by the process of false "morphological perintegration" of old Slavic verb otvoriti - to open. Otvoriti is derived straight from otvor 'opening', but this word should indeed divide not o-tvor but ot-vor. This ot- is an old Slavic prefix ( also preposition ot 'from', comp. Polish od, Russian от). The root -vor is a gerund form from old Slavic verb vreti (to stick, to cling, to press, to close). Nowadays in Polish this root is present not only in this ot-wór, otwierać, otworzyć (old pl oTewrzeć > oDewrzeć, hence oTwarty 'open' (adj.), more popular than 'otworzony'), but also in Polish wór 'sack', zawór 'valve', zwora 'cramp, clamp, dowel', sfora 'a pack of hounds', niesforny 'unruly, indocile', sworzeń 'a pivot, bolt, pin'. On the base of this bad perintegration of otvoriti 'to open' as o-tvoriti (instead of ot-voriti), za-tvoriti has been arisen with an opposite sense 'to close'. It's a very common change among Slavic languages, in Croatian : otvoriti -> zatvoriti, dial. Polish otworzyć -> zatworzyć, while in standard Polish we still have an old verb zawrzeć (pf.), zawierać (ip.) with the meaning 'to close sth' > 'to place sth in sth' > 'to place sth in itself' > 'to contain sth'. An interesting situatian is in Slovak - indeed it has got both forms : zavrieť and zatvoriť . So, at first we had : za-vrěti 'to close' - ot-vrěti 'to open' (cz. otevříti) (pf.) both from vreti (ip.) 'to stick, to press' (comp. Polish wrzeć 'to boil, to bubble' about water - molecules of water press on each other while boiling and go upward; look also Croatian verati se for 'to climb', Lith. verti 'to open') Then we impefectized these : zaverati 'to close' - otverati 'to open' (ip.) Meantime we derived zavor 'closer' - otvor 'opening' as nouns from these verbs above. Then we derived from otvor - otvoriti (pf.) as 'to open' and in contrast to that by coincidence with tvoriti - this opposite verb za-tvoriti 'to close' arose (that's why in Croatian is zatvor for 'arrest, prison'). The same old ot- is in Polish otręby 'bran' which has nothing to do with trąba 'trumpet' but in real goes from old ot-rąbati (to cut off). Just don't adjust these "uncorrect" archaic forms into oDvor or oDruby, please.
![]() Edited by bandziol20, Jun 10 2012, 11:05 AM.
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Jun 10 2012, 10:31 AM Post #24 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Yes, I agree, it's otvoriti and not odvoriti. |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| steeven | Jun 10 2012, 02:50 PM Post #25 |
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| bandziol20 | Jun 11 2012, 07:53 AM Post #26 |
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I think it would be better avoid this ř and replace it by rj, since not many people has this font (unless you're Czech). In this situation could appear differences between the text with Latin and the text with Cyrillic letters (with soft yer font). BTW, I would have nothing against writing otvoreny (with lack of haczek) if we decided that r was dispalatalized first. Otherwise it would seem to be inconsistent for other consonants like m, n, l which get -jen for a passive participle. ![]() EDIT : By the way I think : s / z + -jen should give = šen / žen. Edited by bandziol20, Jun 11 2012, 10:18 AM.
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| bandziol20 | Jun 11 2012, 07:58 AM Post #27 |
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What is a plural form of -ski ending ? I'm asking because I've found such examples like :
? SeverIrlandskje ? protestanisti ? katolikisti ? Devicove ? brrr... BTW :
if ever - *skj > -szcz- |
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| iopq | Jun 11 2012, 09:05 AM Post #28 |
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I think podtiskivanje is the more logical derivation anyway or something like podtisknenje but that sounds kinda Polish to me |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| iopq | Jun 11 2012, 09:10 AM Post #29 |
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Administrator
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Note Ukr. відрубай - bran |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| bandziol20 | Jun 11 2012, 09:58 AM Post #30 |
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BRAN sn = otrubi hsb = wotruby sk = otruby pl = otręby (all in plural number) Edited by bandziol20, Jun 11 2012, 10:00 AM.
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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2:14 PM Jul 11