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New site!; Nova stranica
Topic Started: Jan 17 2012, 02:44 PM (112,993 Views)
IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
You'll all have noticed that the site http://steen.free.fr/slovianski hasn't been updated for quite a while now. That's not because I have been lazy, nor because I've been busy (although I have), but because I've been working on a new site for quite a while now. This site has been online for a while now, but I haven't really announced it officially yet. Perhaps it's time:

http://steen.free.fr/interslavic

What has been changed?

  • The old site was originally just made because Langmaker.com was down (and still is, BTW), and I didn't want my stuff to get lost in cyberspace, so I transferred them to my own webspace. But those materials had merely been meant as a discussion piece. The initial content was mostly my own proposal for Slovianski-N with additions from Gabriel's and Igor's Langmaker pages. Since that time, it has gradually evolved into a more complete grammar, but it was still very poor in descriptions. I've been trying to fix that somehow, although needless to say it's far from finished yet.
  • The old site was done in my "home style", basically the same idea for every project of mine, only in different colours. Although I still like it a lot, I think Slovianski deserves something more neutral (and perhaps, more accessible) than the rather characteristic yellow-on-blue.
  • We've been talking about different grammar levels, flavourisation, Naučny Medžuslovjanski etc. for quite a while now, but none of these things ever got implemented except for an individual page. I've been working to integrate all these things in a more structured way.
  • Instead of all grammar on two pages, I've subdivided it into one page for nouns, one for verbs, etc.
  • I have rewritten and expanded the introductory texts.
  • The language is often called "Interslavic" or "Medžuslovjanski" instead of "Slovianski". I have done that because I don't believe Slovianski, Novoslovienskij and others are different languages, just different models for writing the same language. We are busy finding out what the differences are between NS and SV and how we can eliminate them. That does not necessarily mean a full merger, but let's face it, nobody is waiting for a multitude of nearly identical conlangs based on what you want, what I want or what anybody else wants. Instead, we should end up with a flexible system of different approaches: one archaic/etymological/close to the source, one entirely based on majority solutions, one simplified on a need-to-have base. Right now, both Slovianski and Novoslovienskij are basically mixes of different levels (f.ex. grammar is more simplified in SV, phonology in NS). Ultimately, both should disappear in their current forms and be reworked into these different levels of Interslavic.

What has not changed (yet)?

  • The grammar itself is still that of Slovianski
  • The dictionary is still there - ultimately it should merge with Steeven's Interslavic Lexicon and disappear from my site. But that requires some technical issues to be solved first.
  • The sample texts section is still what it used to be. I know, should be expanded and some old stuff should be kicked out.

That's about it. Comments, suggestions for improvement, additional materials etc. are most welcome!
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Aha, and one more question: what shall we do with the old site?

Options:

  • Just keep it the way it is
  • Remove it
  • Replace the old ones with the new ones
  • Turn every individual page into a redirect to its corresponding place on the new site.

Personally, I'd prefer the latter option. Two different pages about the same thing will only create confusion. And because the internet is full of links to individual Slovianski pages, they'd suddenly give 404 if we remove the whole bunch. As far the third option, I feel it wouldn't be entirely fair to our partners to present the whole thing under the name "Slovianski", but this can of course be discussed.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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Kozica
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Quote:
 
Aha, and one more question: what shall we do with the old site?

kill it, and kill it hard
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iopq
Administrator
I like dark pages with white text
In fact, I manually edited the Ashyn theme so I could use it on the forum
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
The old page had an option for switching themes by means of a cookie. But that didn't work well for those who accessed the pages through links like medzuslovjanski.com, slovianski.info etc.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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steeven
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I like some of the features of the old website.
One thing, for example, is that I can stay on the same page to view both the ADJECTIVAL DECLENSION CHART, and the NOUN DECLENSION CHART - merely by SCROLLING UP or DOWN ....
:o
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
I hope to handle that with a PDF version of the whole thing, possible also with a "Quick Reference Card".
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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Gabriel Svoboda

Very good work, Jan!

Quote:
 
Turn every individual page into a redirect to its corresponding place on the new site.


That's the best option indeed.
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Done! The old Slovianski page is no more: all old pages are now redirects, except for the main page, which for now is a "semisoft" redirect: http://steen.free.fr/slovianski/

It would be nice if some of you could change a few links at Wikipedia etc. (I can do it myself of course, but frankly, it's not taken very well if people add links to their own domains).

I'm still hoping for more feedback about the new page.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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gossips
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Nice work.
I like the old one better, though. It was a site of some uncommon charm, like "back to 90s" =)

I think, structurally wise the new site looks more frendly for visitors, but not visually. I'd like to create a separate user css for it.
I'll upload screenshot and add several suggestions tomorrow or the day after it, maybe you'll like them.
Višla matka kuročka,
S nej mali kuriati:
"Ko-ko-ko, Ko-ko-ko,
Nesimati hoditi daleko!"
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tellur
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We could also use a new forum for this?
http://s4.zetaboards.com/INTERSLAVIC/index/ ;) (I know we won't anyways)
My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements.
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
gossips
Jan 21 2012, 03:51 AM
I think, structurally wise the new site looks more frendly for visitors, but not visually. I'd like to create a separate user css for it.
I'll upload screenshot and add several suggestions tomorrow or the day after it, maybe you'll like them.
Sure, why not? The old site used to offer two options (which might as well be eight) and this was handled by cookies. The trouble is that this worked for people who accessed the site as http://steen.free.fr/slovianski/, but not for those who accessed it from http://www.medzuslovjanski.com etc.

I've never really worked very hard on fixing this problem, because as a person, I'm much more interested in content than in form. Which of course does not mean the latter is less important. Any help will be very welcome!

BTW, the current layout can always be changed or modified. Until now, I've gotten a comment only from one person:
- that I should remove the small Slavic flags (if not all flags)
- that I should removed the gray trees-'n-stars from the background, because it makes things harder to read.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
tellur
Jan 21 2012, 12:02 PM
We could also use a new forum for this?
http://s4.zetaboards.com/INTERSLAVIC/index/ ;) (I know we won't anyways)
I don't really see the point. We have valuable archives here. Besides, it's not like Slovianski has ceased to exist: it's just one out of several names for the same thing. And FWIW, Slovianski is still a well-known and widespread name. :)

Besides, I think we should avoid the Slovio syndrome: four mailing lists, four of five fora, multiple Facebooks groups, but none of them active except for the occasional poster – in other words, more groups than the language has ever had users. I think we'll be much better off if we keep our eggs in one basked, as far as possible.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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tellur
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IJzeren Jan
Jan 21 2012, 06:01 PM
I don't really see the point. We have valuable archives here. Besides, it's not like Slovianski has ceased to exist: it's just one out of several names for the same thing. And FWIW, Slovianski is still a well-known and widespread name. :)

Besides, I think we should avoid the Slovio syndrome: four mailing lists, four of five fora, multiple Facebooks groups, but none of them active except for the occasional poster – in other words, more groups than the language has ever had users. I think we'll be much better off if we keep our eggs in one basked, as far as possible.
!!!
You're so much true and I agree.
My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements.
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gossips
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This is how it looks like:
Png: http://awesomescreenshot.com/050skzk7b (the link will live 3 days)
Jpeg:
Spoiler: click to toggle

Just a draft that's using some of css features several of which are still not implemented in some browsers, thus it needs a further hacking (html directly) if you want it to work properly on older IE browsers, for example.

Should work well on IE9, Chrome 5+, Firefox 4+, Opera 11+

User CSS:
Spoiler: click to toggle


It was planned to redraw and reintegrate Interslavic flags pics into the header, but I have no time for this for now. Anyway, there are svg versions of the flags attached below, if you want them.

Jan, I'm very short in time to write a review of the html code of the site, but saying it frankly, it should be refactored, it's very very hard to deal with. And one thing that must be redone anyway - the access menu. This thing is rediqulous, reshaping it was a real pain in the ass.
I will have a little more free time in March. If you want, I'll rewrite problematic parts.
Attached to this post:
Attachments: Flagi_Slovjanskih_Medzsjaziki_svg.zip (29.42 KB)
Edited by gossips, Jan 23 2012, 06:22 PM.
Višla matka kuročka,
S nej mali kuriati:
"Ko-ko-ko, Ko-ko-ko,
Nesimati hoditi daleko!"
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