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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 5 2011, 08:34 PM (498 Views) | |
| Moraczewski | Dec 5 2011, 08:34 PM Post #1 |
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Really? Since when do we have щ in cyrillic? |
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"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal". František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831. [čćч] | |
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| steeven | Dec 5 2011, 09:25 PM Post #2 |
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Strange, I always thought that we had " Щ " within the "official" alphabet - (even for Slovioski); but I just looked and saw that we do not. Why not? We should include it: Arguments in favor: ____________ Arguments against: ____________ |
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| iopq | Dec 6 2011, 01:52 AM Post #3 |
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Administrator
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шч is actually not that common of a combination I'd rather have a letter for ст, it's three times more common |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| Moraczewski | Dec 6 2011, 08:04 AM Post #4 |
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шч is attested in Belarusian and it is unambigious in terms of pronunciation and conversion to latinica. The pronunciation of щ is different in Ukrainian, Bulgarian and Russian, this may cause common mistakes when converting щ to latinica: št and š, šš or even ś Finally, щ is alien to Serbian and Macedonian cyrillic - and they object against я, ю as well. Having a letter for st is against basic principles of Slovianski: Slovianski achieves <..> [maximum intelligibility for all Slavs] by incorporating the commonalities of the living Slavic languages. Edited by Moraczewski, Dec 6 2011, 08:07 AM.
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"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal". František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831. [čćч] | |
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| iopq | Dec 6 2011, 10:07 AM Post #5 |
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of course, but that's also my argument for not having a letter for шч |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Dec 6 2011, 05:19 PM Post #6 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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No, standard Slovianski doesn't have щ and neither should it. Pronunciation-wise, it's too confusing. Besides, I'd rather not use it for шч, but (if anything) only for шћ, as is the case in pušćati. Still, it's a completely unnecessary and redundant character, if you ask me. About as pointless as the letter x for ks or ѱ for ps. |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| Moraczewski | Dec 6 2011, 07:37 PM Post #7 |
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I would be wise to move this discussion to separate orthography-related thread. This will avoid further questions about whether should we have щ or not. |
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"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal". František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831. [čćч] | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Dec 6 2011, 08:18 PM Post #8 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Done! |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| tellur | Dec 7 2011, 10:25 AM Post #9 |
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Well, how will I, or any other person, know whether to write шч or щ (шћ) without knowing anything about the word, specifically its etymology? Edited by tellur, Dec 7 2011, 10:28 AM.
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| My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements. | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Dec 7 2011, 11:51 AM Post #10 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Prolly you wouldn't. That's why there's no point in using this character. In general: šč/шч comes from sk + front vowel or j, while šć/шћ comes from stj. |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| bandziol20 | Dec 18 2011, 10:51 AM Post #11 |
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Maybe some examples ? I doubt if it's necessery to distinguish these two cases, but I wonder where would these splitters occur in a living language. F.e.: Are you for s radošću = with joy ? |
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| iopq | Dec 19 2011, 05:42 AM Post #12 |
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tьj != tj example: *hotjǫ = hoću vs. *sobytьje = sobytje Edited by iopq, Dec 19 2011, 05:42 AM.
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Dec 19 2011, 11:47 AM Post #13 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Yes indeed! tьj > tj > ć is something South Slavic. West Slavic does the opposite: tьj > tь > ť. So we should distinguish between světja, vratjǫ on one hand, and kostьjǫ and žitьje on the other. |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| bandziol20 | Dec 19 2011, 01:40 PM Post #14 |
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It's a different pair of galoshes. tj, dj in Polish has come to soft c, dz (świeca, miedza). t', d' in Polish has come to soft ć, dź (ćma, dźwig) |
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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