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| Topic Started: Oct 5 2011, 07:58 AM (1,260 Views) | |
| iopq | Oct 6 2011, 12:46 PM Post #16 |
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Serbian is bi-alphabetic and just uses spellings like Nagrada Gremi while Croatian uses Nagrada Grammy since we are bi-alphabetic we're forced to use Nagrada Gremi like Serbian, since otherwise we can't automatically transliterate between cyrillic and latin versions of articles or news items |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| nonik | Oct 6 2011, 01:11 PM Post #17 |
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I agree with Kozica. |
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| steeven | Oct 6 2011, 05:22 PM Post #18 |
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I am looking for "attested" with respect to languages: "Is that word attested in any of the Slavic languages, or is it a purely created word?" "It is attested only in Slovenian" Currently, the Interslavic Lexicon shows the following: attest -------- overiti ----------- authenticate, certify ----- vp ---- 1 attest -------- overjati --------- authenticate, certify ----- vi ----- 1 attested ------ overeny ------------------------------------- a ---- 1 Will all slavic speakers understand these forms? 
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com dict.INTERSLAVIC.com | |
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| nonik | Oct 6 2011, 08:20 PM Post #19 |
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cz......ovierzit, otestovat= check, certify, put under checking osviedczit=prove Edited by nonik, Oct 6 2011, 08:21 PM.
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| steeven | Oct 6 2011, 10:38 PM Post #20 |
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Nonik, So you are suggesting that our MS words for "TO ATTEST" might be: (in Slovianski orthography) overziti otestovati osvedčiti "Yes"? "No"? What will be understood by a majority of Slavic speakers? Below is a list of "ATTESTED" and "TO ATTEST" words from the major Slavic languages + Novoslovienskij. ru = засвидетельствовано, заверенная, проверенный | подтверждать / подтвердить be = засведчана, завераная | сведчыць, засьведчыць uk = засвідчена, завірена | підтверджувати, засвідчувати pl = potwierdzone | potwierdzać / potwierdzić cs = svědčil, potvrzuje, | doložit, dosvědčit, potvrdit, předvést, projevit, prokázat, stvrdit, svědčit sk = svedčil | potvrdiť sl = potrjeno, izkazujejo | potrjevati / potrditi; dokazovati / dokazati hr = svjedoči, ovjeren | ovjeriti, posvjedočiti, potvrditi sr = сведоче | потврдити, сведочити mk = посведочило, потврдена | потврдува bg = удостоверено, поддържа | свидетелствувам, потвърждавам dsb = hsb = csb = sx = ns = izviestiti, poslušstvovati, potvrditi, sviedieti, sviedivati, zapečatleti I think our answer is in red.   Edited by steeven, Oct 7 2011, 05:56 AM.
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com dict.INTERSLAVIC.com | |
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| iopq | Oct 7 2011, 05:29 AM Post #21 |
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podtverditi/podtverdzseni should be in the dictionary, it occurs everywhere |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| steeven | Oct 7 2011, 06:42 AM Post #22 |
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ATTEST AUTHENTICATE CORROBORATE attest --------- 1 ----- podtverditi ----- vp attest --------- 1 ----- podtverdžati --- vi attested ------ 1 ----- podtverdženy -- adj authenticate --- 1 ----- podtverditi ----- vp authenticate --- 1 ----- podtverdžati --- vi authenticated -- 1 ----- podtverdženy -- adj authentication - 1 ----- podtverdženje --- nn corroborate ---- 1 ----- podtverditi ----- vp corroborate ---- 1 ----- podtverdžati --- vi corroborated --- 1 ----- podtverdženy -- adj corroboration -- 1 ----- podtverdženje -- nn Da? Ne? |
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com dict.INTERSLAVIC.com | |
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| Aquarius | Oct 7 2011, 03:34 PM Post #23 |
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En. verse, rhyme = verš, stih virš: ru-uk verš: be-pl-cz-sk verz: sl stih: ru-sl-sh-mk-bg |
| Slov dobryh obranje čini se črez glasovanje! | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Oct 7 2011, 04:17 PM Post #24 |
Jan van Steenbergen
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Da!  Although, how to choose between potvrditi and podtvrditi? The former is West Slavic + SL/SH/MK, the latter East Slavic + BG. So in terms of the majority, it should be potvrditi. Aha, and I think you can add posvědčati/posvědčiti for "to testify/to attest" as well. [čćч] |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| steeven | Oct 7 2011, 04:52 PM Post #25 |
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I chose "pod" over "po" - perhaps incorrectly, presuming that etymologically the word was pod+tverditi, which morphed in the western and southern slavics by dropping the "d". tverditi = claim, contend, assert, allege pod = under podtverditi = under (give more support to) ..... as in English "to under+stand" No? Yes? (thus, returning the word-form to its more appropriate form)    |
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com dict.INTERSLAVIC.com | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Oct 7 2011, 06:17 PM Post #26 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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You see, that kind of logic is quite language-related. "Understand" is a good example: for you, as an English speaker, it is perfectly logical. But even though the word itself is 100% Germanic, it is not understandable at all for Dutch or German speakers. For me, there is no logical connection between "under" and this kind of meanings at all. |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| iopq | Oct 7 2011, 07:39 PM Post #27 |
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podtverditi, we follow the morphological principle |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| steeven | Oct 7 2011, 09:12 PM Post #28 |
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But yet Dutch and German both have "verstaan" and "verstehen". Danish = forstĺ Norwegian = forstĺ Swedish = förstĺ Certainly "ver-" and "for-" at one point in prehistoric times carried an affective meaning which when added to "stand" resulted in a new concept-meaning that we today recognise as "understand". No? Yes? In the past I would have chosen "potvrditi" - if only based upon the "majority rules"; but, hopefully, after these several years of working with you good linguistic mentors, I have acquired the rhythm and rhyme of Slovianski - even if the detailed "rules" bore me incredibly.  My only faux pas was NOT dropping the "e" between "t" and "v" ... and I still have not fully grasped why it is "-dž-" and not "-žd-" - especially with my own internal confusion between Polish and Russian. So, "podtvrditi" and "podtvrdžati" it shall be. Edited by steeven, Oct 7 2011, 09:13 PM.
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com dict.INTERSLAVIC.com | |
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| Obrens | Oct 7 2011, 11:00 PM Post #29 |
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Kako nema logike? Na srbskom: podupreti(under+push) - support, like a pillar supports a ceiling podržati(under+hold) - support, like one supports another's opinion ta dva mogu mešati značenje |
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| bandziol20 | Oct 8 2011, 09:34 AM Post #30 |
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You recognize "understand"... but why is that so ? What allows you to compare verbs 'to understand' and 'verstehen' ? Let's take German verb 'untersehen'. It means 'to be under the control (of sb), to be subordinate (to sb), to subject (to the law)'. Now give me an answer to this question : a. Does English verb "to understand" include this meaning "to subordinate" in itself ? or maybe : b. Is something wrong with a German 'concept-meaning' for "unterstehen" ? To me as avarage Polish is a bit strange to link 'to stand' with 'to understand'. Heh... Do you need to stand to understand ? Though... in Polish we've got : zastanawiać się 'to reflect, to muse, to think (over sth)'; zastanawiać 'to puzzle, to intrigue' It is from an old meaning : zastanowić (pf.) = 'to stop (sb. / sth.); to make (sb. / sth.) to stand still (=not to move)'
Well, if you want to know my opinion it isn't something of 100% natural for me, either. But I think I know why it is so in Slovianski. It seems to me it has been improved with a goal to regularize and simplify some consonant changes in Slovianski. Since in Slovianski voiceless T gives voiceless č (2nd palatalization ?), f. e.: sveTiti (pf.) 'to light, to shine' - sveča 'a candle', vraTiti (pf.) - vračati (ip.) 'to return, to come back' then (by analogy) voiced equivalent to T, namely D should give voiced equivalent to voiceless č, which is just - dž (from a phonological point of view), so : potvrDiti (pf.) - potvrDžati (ip.) 'to confirm', saDiti (pf.) - saDžati (ip.) 'to set, to plant'. BTW : as we're about 'understand' concepts... you mentioned you haven't grasped something. Funny thing. In Polish we've got 'pojąć' (pf., ip. 'pojmować') in the sense 'to understand'. And from this verb is also 'pojęcie' - 1. as a product, thing : notion, concept, idea 2. as result of activity : understanding, grasp. Nie mam pojęcia ! - I have no idea ! To przechodzi ludzkie pojęcie ! - It passes the mankind comprehension ! It is from old meaning (but sometimes still in use) jąć - to grasp. What's more colloquial expressions of this notion also refer to "catching" chwytać, łapać - literally 'to catch, to grasp' Chwytasz to ? - Do you grasp it ? kapować - from Latin capere - to grasp. Nie kapuję tego. I don't grasp it. Recently very popular have become : ogarnąć (pf.) / ogarniać (ip.) - coll. 'to understand' (literally : to engulf, to take in; (emotions) to overtake, to seize). Ogarniasz to ? Do you grasp it ? Nie ogarniam tego. I don't grasp it. (= It is too much for me to understand) ogarnąć się (pf.) / ogarniać się (ip.) - coll. 'to get a grip, to tidy oneself up' Ogarnij się ! - Tidy up ! Get a grip ! It is etymologically from garść ' hand (= a part with fingers you grasp sth), handful (as a quantity)'. Edited by bandziol20, Oct 8 2011, 09:48 AM.
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Glasovanje je čista glupost. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjanski. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/ms-en.html http://dict.interslavic.com | |
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