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SLAVIC SYMBOLS; flag, coat of arms and other
Topic Started: Sep 26 2011, 03:48 PM (2,638 Views)
tellur
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Quote:
 
To me, žive/žije really makes no difference. Even though the dictionary says žive, žije is certainly not wrong (and it rhymes nicely with bije!).

Yes, I am aware that it's the same thing basically but I still love žije/bije rhyme :p

Quote:
 
Using za as "for" is very South Slavic, but it's no big deal.

Well, we, West Slavs (and perhaps East Slavs too), would have pro naš narod bije, but as you said...It's not big deal since this prepositional phrase (binding, w/e word English uses for this case) is understood by everyone.

Quote:
 
I must say, I really hope Vojta will get rid of this -j one day. Nowadays only Russian and Ukrainian use it, and even in transliterated Russian it's usually omitted. It would make sense if NS used the long forms of adjectives (-aja, -oje, -yje etc.), but since it doesn't, this -j strikes me as completely needless, having the additional disadvantage that it looks like transliterated Russian. It's also kind of awkward in Cyrillic to write -иј or -ыј. And etymologically there's no real reason for it either, because the original ending was -ъıь (ı being j). Because ı + ь became i (и), like in jьмати > имати, the actual ending was -ъи.

Thank you for your educational and HELPFUL info! I was feeling a lot disturbed pronouncing the ij...It was better with yj, but still that j was annoying me when reading words. (and it still is when I'm reading Russian texts sometimes). From now on, I will just use měgky, lěpy, rědky, slověnsky, pomočny and so on...

Quote:
 
We've been hesitating between -me and -mo in the first person plural. We've chosen -mo despite it being in the minority, because this is one of those positions where a Russian pronunciation of e would be plain wrong.

In my opinion it's wrong to use one solution just because one letter in Russian is different in this case. And same goes for any Slavic language. And also, all of you know that Russian is a one big mess when it comes to reading and writing е.
Btw, it uses мы ходим, мы идем, мы будем and such, right? Basically ommiting the last vowel such as dialectal Czech does it. Jdem(e), chcem(e), můžeme(e)...(but no vařím(e), since vařím is already an established form - 1st person sg.)

Quote:
 
Question: what does "nijedinyj" mean?

Ni+jedin+y. Basically, it means the same thing nikto. Do you have a better solution for this word? I've been having a really hard time thinking about these two verse..."Ne može nam jego brati,
nikto nijedinyj"
Do you have any idea how to change it so everybody could understand our national anthem?

Quote:
 
My stojime prisno tvrdo,Don't understand "prisno".

Prisno is very strange word indeed. The only cognate in the living languages I can find is Czech přísně in the meaning of "strictly".
Btw, it should mean "truly, really, indeed, strictly" in this context. Maybe it's a LOT better to use važno or some similar word?

I've edited the original post here, now refer to this link
P.S.:Oh my God, looking back at the original version I feel scared. Was I really that stupid to use constructions like zedji grada? O_O
Edited by tellur, Dec 26 2011, 07:51 PM.
My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements.
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VladUkr
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Povnyj variant:
Hej Slovjane, ješče naša
Slovjanska reč žive
Poki naše v'erne srdce
Za naš narod bije

Žive večno duh slovjanski,
v nas on ne ugasne
Grom i peklo, prazdn'e vaše
Protiv nas naprazno

Slovo naše dal nam Bog,
Bog naš gromovladnyj,
Ne smije jego izjati
Na s'em sv'еtе žodnyj

Nehaj vragov bude mnogo
Jak č'ertej na sv'ete
Bog jest s nami, kto protiv nas
Togo Perun znyšče

I nehaj i ponad nami
Grozna burja vznese,
Skala vpade, dub se slame
I zeml'a se trese:

My stojimo postojano
Jako mury grada
Černa zeml'a da poglote
vsego, kto nas zradit!

Кириллица:

Хej Словjaнe, jеще наша
Словjaнскa реч живe
Поки наше вьерне срдце
За наш народ биje

Живе вечно дух словjaнски,
в нас он не угасне
Гром и пекло, празднье ваше
Против нас напразно

Слово наше дал нам Бог,
Бог наш громовладныj,
Не смиjе jего изjати
На сьем свьете жодный

Нехай врагов буде много
Jак чьертеj на свьете
Бог je с нами, кто против нас
Того Перун зныще

И нехаj и понад нами
Грозна бурja взнесе,
Скала впаде, дуб се сламе
И земльа се тресе:

Мы стоjимо постоjано
Jaкo муры града
Черна земльа да поглоте
всего, кто нас зрадит!

United alphabet:

Хеϳ sʌоvϳаɴе, ϳешче ɴаша
Sʌоvϳаɴsка ʀеч жіvе
Покі ɴаше vьеʀɴе sʀdце
Zа ɴаш ɴаʀоd біϳе

Жіvе vечɴо duх sʌоvϳаɴsкі
V ɴаs оɴ ɴе uгаsɴе
Гʀом і пекʌо, пʀаzdɴье vаше
Пʀотіv ɴаs ɴапʀаzɴо

Sʌоvо ɴаше dаʌ ɴам Бог
Бог ɴаш гʀомоvʌаdɴыj,
Nе sміϳе jего іzϳаті
Nа sьем svьете жоdɴыϳ

Nехаϳ vʀагоv бudе мɴого
Јак чьеʀтеϳ ɴа svьете
Бог ϳе sɴамі, кто пʀотіv ɴаs
Того Пеʀuɴ zɴышче

І ɴехаϳ і поɴаd ɴамі
Гʀоzɴа бuʀϳа vzɴеsе,
Sкаʌа vпаdе, duб sе sʌаме,
І zемʌьа sе тʀеsе:

Мы sтоϳімо поsтоϳаɴо
Јако мuʀы гʀаdа
Чеʀɴа zемʌьа dа погʌоте
vsего, кто ɴаs zʀаdіт!
Edited by VladUkr, Dec 29 2011, 01:38 PM.
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VladUkr
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"zedji" - CZ SR-CR MC . . . 1,5
"mury" - PL UA BEL SLVK . 2,5
"st'eny" - RU BL SLVN . . . 2 (also CZ - but in CZ we use Zed' much more)
I know Russian, Ukrainian, and a bit Czech, and I think we'd better use "mury" then "st'eny" or "zedji" :)
-------------------
(and perhaps East Slavs too) - we use "za" in Russian and Ukrainian 100%
-------------------
I can find is Czech přísně in the meaning of "strictly" - but in East Slavic Languages (I don't know about south) "prisno" means "freshwater" - water without salt (some lakes, rivers) or "unleavened bread" - bread (food) without seasoning. So, it's better SR-CR BL MK and RU BEL UA (in Ukrainian modificated form - postijno) variant "postojano" because it's 3,5 points from 6
Edited by VladUkr, Dec 27 2011, 06:38 AM.
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tellur
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Oh, I see you've worked with the longest version with 6 strofes! Good job! :)
Though I've got a few comments about your version.
It's some kind flavourized (e.g. ukrainized, serbicized, bulgaricized...etc), version right?
"Mistakes" like nehaj vragej (instead of nehaj vragOV), mnoho (probably typo, mnogo) or pohlote.

Quote:
 
Nehaj vragej bude mnoho
Jak čertej na svete
Bog jest s namy, kto protiv nas
Togo Perun znyšče

First, correct that typo namy, it should be nami.
Second, shouldn't those bold verses rhyme together?

Quote:
 
"zedji" - CZ SR-CR MC . . . 1,5
"mury" - PL UA BEL SLVK . 2,5
"st'eny" - RU BL SLVN . . . 2 (also CZ - but in CZ we use Zed' much more)
I know Russian, Ukrainian, and a bit Czech, and I think we'd better use "mury" then "st'eny" or "zedji" :)

Stěna is a word understandible to every Slav. It exists Croatian stijena with the meaning {rock, cliff} and Polish ściana (other fast searching:Bulgarian стена, Macedonian стена with the Croatian meaning - but you have to type it there.)
My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements.
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bandziol20
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stěna from Gothic stains : kamen (comp. Germ. Stein, Eng. stone)
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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VladUkr
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tellur, but when we speak about walls of a CITY (that were built in the middle ages), in many languages (PL UA BEL SLVK) we use word "mury", not another, and this word is quite understandable for Russians.
"vragOV" - now I also think that this variant is better
"namy","mnogo","pohlote" - sorry there were a few mistakes in Latin version...
"rhyme together?" - svete-znyšče, though there isn't a very good rhyme here, I tried use much understable words.
"It's some kind flavourized (e.g. ukrainized, serbicized, bulgaricized...etc), version right?" - I try to use variants that are closer to Polish and Ukrainian (and sometimes Czech), but are understandable for Russians. Whan we do so, we get slavic language with the highest content of old Slavic words, that were slavic all the time. Thanks to bandziol20 who showed us, that word "st'ena" were half German - half Slavic. And with adding the fact of meaning word "mury" in Slavic languages I choose word "mury"
Edited by VladUkr, Dec 27 2011, 12:15 PM.
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
tellur
Dec 27 2011, 09:24 AM
Quote:
 
Nehaj vragej bude mnoho
Jak čertej na svete
Bog jest s namy, kto protiv nas
Togo Perun znyšče

First, correct that typo namy, it should be nami.
Second, shouldn't those bold verses rhyme together?
Well, a simple solution to get it rhyming would be sgnete.

Or perhaps: Perun go izgnete.

Quote:
 
"zedji" - CZ SR-CR MC . . . 1,5
"mury" - PL UA BEL SLVK . 2,5
"st'eny" - RU BL SLVN . . . 2 (also CZ - but in CZ we use Zed' much more)
I know Russian, Ukrainian, and a bit Czech, and I think we'd better use "mury" then "st'eny" or "zedji" :)

All I can say is that zedji is competely not understandable to me.

As for stěna, in Polish it means "walls of a room", in this case "mury" would make more sense. But it's understandable!

Perhaps it was a Gothic borrowing, but who cares? It's omnipresent in Slavic nowadays, and if anything, it must have been a very early borrowing - from long before the Slavs started borrowing Christian vocabulary.

[čćч]
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
[čćч]
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bandziol20
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IJzeren Jan
Dec 27 2011, 01:36 PM
All I can say is that zedji is competely not understandable to me.
WTF... there is no zedji but simply: zid (Slovene: zid 'wall', Russian: здание 'building', Polish: zdun 'stove fitter, potter', dial. Pol.(Podhale): uzdajać, wyzdajać 'to deck, to make, to build', PS. zid'ą, zьdati 'to shape, to build').
Quote:
 
in this case "mury" would make more sense.

But 'mur' is a typical German borrowing (Mauer) and it's not understandable for South Slavic.
Edited by bandziol20, Dec 27 2011, 03:49 PM.
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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steeven
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bandziol20
Dec 27 2011, 02:58 PM
But 'mur' is a typical German borrowing (Mauer) and it's not understandable for South Slavic.
Latin: WALL - MURUS
Noun - masc - second declension

Case ----- Sing ------ Plur
nom ----- mūrus ---- mūrī
gen ------ mūrī ------ mūrōrum
dat ------- mūrō ----- mūrīs
acc ------- mūrum --- mūrōs
abl ------- mūrō ------ mūrīs
voc ------ mūre ----- mūrī


Older Latin: moiros, moerus
Even so, I do not see any compromise between Serbo-Croatian and the other Languages.
SR-HR has "ZID" and "BEDAM" only; (MK has "SИД").
Our other Languages all appear to have "STENA*"

Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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tellur
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IJzeren Jan
Dec 27 2011, 01:36 PM
All I can say is that zedji is competely not understandable to me.

Zedji is not and understandable word because it's a mistake I mad back in August.
Either zidi or zdi.

But I share bandziol's opinion here. We got a broad-understandible alternative (no matter from where it came) even if it means walls of a room (not those of a city), rock or something else in national languages + mury isn't understandable for South Slavs.
Edited by tellur, Dec 27 2011, 04:59 PM.
My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements.
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Kozica
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krasna praca
pametaj jedino:
Quote:
 
Hej Slovjane, (...) naš narod


slovjane to ne "narod" ale veczej "rod", ili "lud"
orginal jest o narode, ale jak pisasz o vsyh slovjani, to povinno biti o lude ili rode.
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tellur
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tellur
Dec 23 2011, 09:23 AM
Here is my edited (and still editing it) version I wrote in August with a little correction from Vojta, for better rhythms:
It's in NS but written with Slovianski's ortography (or as you wish, it's whole in Medžuslovianski :P)
Ej Slověni!

Ej Slověni, ješče naša
slověnska rěč žije!
Ej Slověni, ješče srdce naše
za naš narod bije!

Žije, žije duh slověnsky,
bųde žiti věčno!
Grom i peklo, vragosť vašu,
pobědimo močno!

Slovo je porųčil nam Bog,
Bog naš gromovladny.
Ne može nam jego brati,
nikto nijediny!

My stojimo věčno tvrdo,
jako stěny grada.
Černa zemja da pokryje
vsěgo, kto otpada!

Cyrillic version
Еј, Словѣни, јешче наша
словенска реч жије!
Еј, Словѣни, јешче срдце наше
за наш народ бије!

Жије, жије дух словѣнскы,
буде жити вечно!
Гром и пекло, врагость вашу
побѣдимо мочно!

Слово је поручил нам Бог,
Бог наш громовалдны!
Не може нам јего брати
никто ниједины!

Мы стојимо вечно тврдо
јако стены града!
Черна земја да покрыје
всего, кто отпада!

Original version exists here
But since, not everyone is on facebook, I will post it here too.

Ej, Slovieni, ještie naša
slovienska reč žije.
Doideže s'rdce naše
za naš narod bije!

Žije, žije duh slovienskij,
bude žiti viečno.
Gromu, peklu, zlosti vašej,
uideme udobno!

Slovo jest poručil nam Bog,
Bog naš gromovladnij.
Ne smieje nam go s'brati,
človiek nijedinij!

My stojimе prisno tv'rdo,
jako zedji gradu.
Černa zemja pog'lti te,
kto voliut izradu!
My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements.
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tellur
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Oh my god, what have I done? Please, delete those two messages...I am missing "delete my own post" button :D
Edited by tellur, Mar 15 2012, 06:45 PM.
My Interslavic shortly - no i/y disinction and o/e rule enforced (byti>biti x biti>biti, svežego x dobrogo), soft consonants ń, ĺ, ď, ť, ŕ, ě/e merged, ę->ja, no syllabic r/l (torg, deržava, volk, dolgi), tl/dl clusters preserved (midlo, metla), CroC, CloC, CreC, CleC (grod, glova, breg, mleko), 1st sg. ending -u, 3rd pl. ending ut/jat (delaju, čuju, molvju x delajut, čujut, molvjat). Basically, a heavy Western flavour with some Eastern elements.
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