| Dobrodošli na forum Medžuslovjanskogo jezyka! Želajemo vam mnogo prijemnosti. Добродошли на форум Меджусловјанского језыка! Желајемо вам много пријемности. Welcome to Interslavic! We hope you enjoy your visit. Sejčas pogledajete naše forum kako gosť. To znači, že imajete ograničeny dostup do někojih česti forum i ne možete koristati vse funkcije. Ako li pristupite v našu grupu, budete imati svobodny dostup do sekcij preznačenyh jedino za členov, na pr. založeňje profila, izsylaňje privatnyh poslaň i učestničstvo v glasovaňjah. Zapisaňje se jest prosto, bystro i vpolno bezplatno. Сејчас погледајете наше форум како гость. То значи, же имајете ограничены доступ до некојих чести форум и не можете користати все функције. Ако ли приступите в нашу групу, будете имати свободны доступ до секциј презначеных једино за членов, на пр. заложеньје профила, изсыланьје приватных послань и учестничство в гласованьјах. Записаньје се јест просто, быстро и вполно безплатно. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Pristupite v našu grupu! Приступите в нашу групу! Join our community! Ako li už jeste člen, prijavite se, že byste mogli koristati vse možnosti: Ако ли уж јесте член, пријавите се, же бысте могли користати все можности: If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Memorandum of the interslavic community about slovio from september 2011 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 14 2011, 10:07 AM (1,603 Views) | |
| steeven | Sep 14 2011, 10:25 PM Post #16 |
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Jan, please note that Andrej and I worked together for almost 2 years in revamping the Slovioski dictionary, when we dropped the Slovio database entirely. All of those words were packaged up in a neat excel .csv document which I forwarded to Andrej. Presumably, he forward that - or his own edited version of it - to you for inclusion into the Slovianski dictionary - where so many of those words remain today.
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Sep 14 2011, 11:40 PM Post #17 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Mind, Steeven, I do not dislike the levels at all, au contraire! I rather think it should be expanded. For the rest, I agree about the basics: LEVEL 1 - Words supported by a majority (at least 3,25 votes, or even more) LEVEL 2 - Words supported by a minority (say, 2-3 votes) I think we need a separate level (3) for word that are supported by one or two languages only, but are still useful. Recently we had such a word from Slovene, although I can't recall it right now. LEVEL 3 - Artificial words. Yes, but we need to define very clearly under which circumstances we allow these words, and what criteria we use for them. Right now, most of them seem to be leftovers from Slovio, and I think nobody needs those. LEVEL 4 - Legal words. This is an interesting one. Could you explain the reasoning behind this one? Especially why this should be a separate category? Because it seems to imply that we might as well a separate category for medical words, archaeological words, etc.etc.etc. This level seems to refer to usage rather than level, if you ask me. But perhaps I'm wrong. LEVEL 5 - I've always had a problem with this one, because it is contrary to the purpose of Slovianski, which is understandability and not linguistic purism. Mind, I've no problem with adding a note that a word is of non-Slavic descent and offering an alternative to those who care for that kind of things, I just think it is unfair to group a word like organizacija (with 6 votes and no really workable alternative) at the lower end of the scale, just because it was not inherited from Proto-Slavic. Many of these words are as level 1 as level 1 can possibly get! ![]() The numbers suggest we are dealing with a scale, and indeed, at least 1-3 are a scale. Putting a word outside that scale, or at the lower end of it, gives the impression that we actually advise against it. And THAT's basically what I disagree with. So my proposal would be more like: LEVEL 1a - Words with more than 3 votes of Slavic descent LEVEL 1b - Words with more than 3 votes of non-Slavic descent LEVEL 2 - Words with 2-3 votes LEVEL 3 - Words with less than 2 votes LEVEL 4 - Words with 0 votes (artificial words) Levels 2-4 should also offer solutions for those who dislike level 1b.
Indeed, that kind of information isn't interesting to anybody at all.
Absolutely, that's what I have in mind. But that requires that the source code is in NMS or something similar. By the way, I take it by NS you mean Naučny (Medžu)slovjanski, not Novoslovienskij in this case, right?
Fair enough, that makes sense.
I think this is basically a matter of version management. Perhaps in the future the database could have a few special status fields (saying who added it, when it was added, whether it has been researched, discussed and/or sanctioned, etc.).
Yes, I apologise for that. To be honest, I have been so extremely busy since June that practically all my online activity was stalled (for example, last week I worked some 110-120 hours). I haven't found the time yet to update my own dictionary - but don't worry, I have marked every word that hasn't been sent to you yet. Your Excel sheet will turn out very helpful. What I intend to do with it is this: - merge it into my own Access database (I am notoriously bad at Excel) - merge all the doublets (my orthography and your levels) - naučnify the rest - mark all the stuff that IMO shouldn't be there for some reason, or that should be modified, re-levelled or whatever, so that we can talk about it. That's not a thing a person can do in one day, but eventually, this is what I plan on doing. Same procedure also with the NS dictionary.
Exactly, that's precisely what I had in mind, too! ![]()
Don't worry about that. You're doing a great job at keeping the whole thing up-to-date (much better than I do, to be frank). I have naučnified the entire Slovianski dictionary on my own, so there's no reason why I couldn't to the same thing with additional words as well. Once we're done with all this, I think I'll take the Slovianski dictionary offline - it's getting too big for a one-page dictionary anyway. Or keep it as a mirror of the lexicon, doesn't really matter... I like Vojta's idea of concentrating our efforts in such way, like: - two grammar pages for now (Vojta's and mine) - one dictionary page (yours) - one forum (this one) - one Facebook community (Novoslovienskij) - one news site (Izvestija) - one wiki, perhaps I will also rework my transliterator a bit to make it more suitable for the needs of NS (in fact, I've noticed that NS orthography is practically identical with how I would see Slovak flavourisation, so perhaps we could also integrate it under such banner?) [čćч] Edited by IJzeren Jan, Sep 14 2011, 11:58 PM.
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Sep 14 2011, 11:56 PM Post #18 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Well yes, but that rather proves my point: that the dictionary has been compiled by many different people, and words don't carry a name tag. Andrej was already on the Slovianski project before Slovioski was ever launched, and after that it's quite possible that he submitted words to both you and me. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that through Andrej a lot of stuff went in the opposite direction as well. That's something only he can tell. But it doesn't really matter now. All this proves is that Slovianski and Slovioski were bound to merge one day! And I must add that I am very satisfied with our collaboration!!
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| Moraczewski | Sep 15 2011, 06:53 AM Post #19 |
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It is not like 99%, because NS users prefer to make e/ě distinction at the very least. So yes, we do need those radio buttons. Although I might agree with Steeven that 99% don't need things like ų, ė, ě, ů |
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"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal". František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831. [čćч] | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Sep 15 2011, 08:03 AM Post #20 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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That's right, and here we are entering the domain of Slovianski Plus. Clearly, most of these characters are largely irrelevant for understanding, and I wouldn't recommend using them in texts. Not really needed IMO are á ć đ é ė č í ě ó ň ṙ ŕ ů ý. I agree that ě should be there at the very least. It's a phoneme that makes for many differences between languages (even between Serbian and Croatian!), and thus can play a central role in unifying them. Also, ě is crucial for knowing the "majority pronunciation". IMO is should actually have been part of the basic alphabet of Slovianski, the trouble is only that it doesn't have a useful counterpart in Cyrillic (lots of people wouldn't recognise ҍ). For the rest:
Another thing is whether we should use them in all positions. The prefix rĺz- amounts for some 2/3 of all occurrences of ĺ in texts, and it's clear that this rather contributes to a certain fuzziness or ugliness than to understandability. Likewise, ě might not always be needed either. We could limit ourselves to those instances where NS has "ie", for example. But of course, I also agree most users don't need these things at all. Still, some people do. Writing ų as u is easy, but knowing which u's are actually ų is not. |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| bandziol20 | Sep 15 2011, 08:43 AM Post #21 |
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Wow ! What a coincidence ! I've just been about to present my propositions on these issues. First of all : one obvious thing : Slovianski is planned a language for Slavs to communicate. What means "to communicate" ? It contains 2 things : A. TO READ / LISTEN & UNDERSTAND texts in Slovianski (passive skill). But one user has said even more :
So, texts should be understood by Slavs only for that reason they are Slavs and not for they have learned Slovianski. Well, it could seem a bit idealistic, but I won't prejudge it's possible or not. I only say that conditions of understandable reading by a newcomer and conditions of writing in understandable way by a newcomer needn't to be the same things. Sometimes for better understandability in reading Slavic texts you need for example more "complicated" orthography. B. TO PRODUCE (WRITE & TALK) texts in Slovianski (active skill). Well, to be simmetric to situation A, we should be more tolerant for "raw" newcomers and say : Let them write as they like it ! However, it seems to me that teaching of Slovianski isn't what we can avoid anyway. It isn't situation : "Wow ! I can read and understand what here is written, so I'll write something too !" or am I wrong ? First, a lighter thing, which is an orthography. I suggest 2 levels : High Style & Simple Style Orthography. Writing in High Style should serve not just to show off your knowledge of OCS, but by this knowledge help to understand texts by newcomers. my concern is mainly about nasal vocals, but not only. High Style ę for historical *ę - Simple Style just e. High Style ų for historical *ǫ - Simple Style : u. High Style ě for historical *ě - Simple Style gives : e. You know, my proposition is just to add some diacritics if you want for better reading, nothing more. For New comers it would be easier to use the Simple Style in writing. Now, about vocabulary. I suggest 3 levels to distinguish : 1. recommanded words - these are word broadly accepted (here is strictly, maybe even "fewer words" dictionary) 2. optional words - these are words, popular in different Slavic languages, but they are not broadly accepted or have very various form in each of Slavic languages. 3. unidentified (yet ) words - it refers only to conditions of Slovianski itself, not to conditions of each natural Slavic language; here are words from different languages (both Slavic and others) there are also occasionalisms, it could be also words created by a new user (but not necessery) who doesn't know with what this whole Slovianski is eaten as well as an user with a "poetic" attitude ![]() I expect a movement from one to other level of vocabulary by agreements, votes of users or something like that. Hm... I could only dream it could be marked in a written text by "Slavic Checker ?" which of form is recommanded, which is optional and which is unidentified (for example by colors green, yellow or brown). It could be also (as it is in WordOffice) an option to propose a recommanded form for optional words (but without need to use it obligatory). Well, that's all my loose suggestions that I've thought this morning. EDIT :
Yes, it's quite interesting situation, but it only shows unnecessity and redundance of level 2 or 1. We shouldn't take "majority-minority" criterium as a final systematic criterium, but rather as one of helpful tool to begin, not the just one. I can easily imagine a situation where a Slavic word as it is could even appear in whole Slavic area, but with many different meanings in each language that would lead to ambiguity or polysemy (a problem of false friends). As for memorandum. You must answer 1. why you are writing this. 2. To who do you want communicate this ? I think the group of people you should address to are new Slavs and non-Slavic people interesting in Slavic languages, who can be misleaded about Slovianski. Now, about contain of memorandum : we should present advantage of Slovianski, underline auxiliary character of this language, for non-Slavs it could be a good starting point for learning natural Slavic languages, you can also underline a naturalistic attitude of this conception, and on the other hand a simplicity of this language. You could mention about constructed foster brothers like Novoslovienski, Medżuslovianski, Slovianto. Explain on which base they has been founded, what are their goals in general. You can also mark up if you need we have nothing to do with other projects of constructed Slavic languages (except above mentioned). ![]() I think we should distribute this memorandum wherever is a threat of "not-quite-true" information about our project. Edited by bandziol20, Sep 15 2011, 02:11 PM.
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| nonik | Sep 15 2011, 11:26 AM Post #22 |
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Tne name NOVO-SLOVIANSKI on the M. Hučko page-site is not something brandly new. I noticed it a couple months ago.. |
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| IJzeren Jan | Sep 15 2011, 01:58 PM Post #23 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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It has been there since January, if I recall correctly. It's an awful thing, really: a mix of plagiarism, parody, misinformation and hate site. I never watch it anymore, because the huge number of YouTube stuff usually causes my computer to take a break for 5-10 minutes. In the beginning I noticed that it was updated sometimes (usually with more of the same). But as far as I can tell, it hasn't undergone any change for quite a few months now. It seems like he is that he is busy with other things but us right now. My best guess would be Rusanto, another attempt to sell off the same junk under yet another name. |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| steeven | Sep 15 2011, 04:18 PM Post #24 |
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Oops! Yes. My reference to "NS" here should have been referenced as NMS ("Naučny (Medžu)slovjanski") |
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| steeven | Sep 15 2011, 04:27 PM Post #25 |
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Gosh! I had no idea that "he" had been continuing his evil endeavours with these new websites. I am especially shocked at his kidnapping of Vojta's Novoslovienskij project name - especially since Vojta has been so accommodating and acknowledging of him in his website recognitions. Wstyd! Stud! Hanba! Стыд! Срам! Stid! Сором! |
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| nonik | Sep 15 2011, 04:54 PM Post #26 |
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http://www.novoslovianski.com/ on the below is written PS: Novo-Slovianski is not the same as Novoslovjenskij created by Mr. Merunka and his team. but ??? |
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| Vojtech | Sep 15 2011, 06:05 PM Post #27 |
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Dear All, Jan vS rewrote my memorandum draft and I thing that this version is the perfect. Please, look at it. I am ready to present it on our web. It is now as You wroted here: more clear, more about Slovio, more about our cooperation. Big thank to You, Jan. MEMORANDUM OF THE INTERSLAVIC COMMUNITY ABOUT SLOVIO, SLOVIANSKI AND NEOSLAVONIC FROM SEPTEMBER 2011 INTRODUCTION The Slavic languages are a relatively coherent language group. It consists of three subfamilies with their own specific traits, but all three families share many characteristics, both in grammar, vocabulary and syntax. Knowledge of one Slavic language is sufficient to get at least a very rough, basic understanding of what a text in any other Slavic language is about. During the course of history, the similarities between the Slavic languages have inspired linguists and others to build a universal artificial Slavic language that would be understandable for speakers of different Slavic languages. This includes the very successful Old Church Slavonic language by Sts. Cyril and Method from the 9th century, the languages of Šime Budinić, Johannes Comenius and Juraj Križanić from 16th and 17th centuries, as well as many similar attempts by people from different Slavic nations from the late 17th century onwards. Sometimes these efforts have a political (religious, panslavic) background; sometimes they were created just for fun. But all of them are based on the assumption that the Slavic languages are similar enough to make such a language possible at all. THE SLOVIO PROJECT Mr. Mark Hučko was one of the first who picked up this idea in the digital era. He made his Slovio in 1999 on almost the same principles as the Esperanto, but using Slavic word roots instead. Initially, this project was received with some enthusiasm on the Internet, but interest in it later fizzled. A significant drawback of the Slovio language is the artificial character of its grammar. Slavic vocabulary is used only for word stems, but suffixes and many other grammatical elements (like prepositions, conjunctions, etc.) were taken from Esperanto or English, or designed artificially. This means that a person who knows a Slavic language cannot rely on anything he already knows from real Slavic. For non-Slavs, this language may serve as a kind of Esperanto with the advantage that Slavic people can understand some of it, but for Slavs the entire concept comes across as unnatural and sometimes ridiculous. As a result, Slovio has now practically vanished from the scene. Yet, we appreciate Mark’s hard work, and we believe Slovio could still play an interesting role for non-Slavs and people with Slavic ancestry in foreign countries. For these people, the simplicity and artificiality of Slovio grammar might be a great challenge and an easy opportunity "to touch" the Slavic world. For all the above reasons, there have been several attempts at a different type of better Interslavic language over the last 20 years, one that is more in the middle of the continuum of naturally spoken Slavic languages (genders, cases, perfective/imperfective mode, verbal conjugation, etc.). Among these projects were Glagolica, Proslava, Slovo, Slovioski, as well as several others; the total number of these recent projects exceeds 30. THE INTERSLAVIC PROJECT All these former projects have accumulated today into our two collaborative community projects: Novoslovienski (“Neoslavonic”) and Slovianski (“Slavic”). They both share a very similar, naturalistic grammar, a common vocabulary and one common goal: to describe a universal Slavic language that Slavs can understand without any prior learning and use actively after some minimal learning only. This intended language, called Interslavic, is based exclusively on forms that exist throughout the Slavic language continuum, and any artificiality is carefully avoided: every word stem, grammatical ending or morphological element can be found in several Slavic languages, ideally in all of them. This design strategy locates Interslavic at the very centre of the living Slavic languages. In addition, speakers can easily mix words or other elements from their mother tongue into Interslavic, which enables them to make themselves clearer to other Slavic speakers, and also allows them to use Interslavic as a transient tool for faster and easier learning of another Slavic language. The opposite is possible as well: Interslavic can easily be manipulated by using characteristics from the language(s) of a specific target group (polish-lusatian, czech-slovak, slovene, croat-bosnian-montenegrin-serbian, macedonian-bulgarian, ukrainian-belarussian, russian). We call these processes flavourisation. Our experience is that speakers of Slavic languages tend to perceive Interslavic as either an ancient or remote dialect of their own language, or a neighbouring language closely related to their own. People are often surprised how much they can understand of it. For example, when a Pole who does not know Serbian speaks Interslavic, his Serbian partner, probably totally unaware of Interslavic, does not feel he is being addressed in some unknown third language like Slovio, but rather in a kind of his neighbour language, or a “more understandable” Polish dialect that is half way to Serbian. The Interslavic project strategy is to develop the auxiliary language in such way that it can be naturally incorporated into the collection of spoken Slavic languages, to enable Interslavic dialogue, knowledge and cultural transfer without the need of translating information into several national languages. It should be emphasised that Interslavic is not related to any religion, ideology or political movement. It is neither intended to ever replace any living language, nor to become a universal second language of any kind. We merely hope to provide a tool to those who wish to engage in any form of Interslavic dialogue, and to those who hope to achieve a better understanding of the Slavic languages. SLOVIANSKI Slovianski (= Slovjanski jezyk, Slavic) is essentially a simplified modernisation of Proto-Slavic, consisting of those elements that are most common in today’s living Slavic languages. Grammar is basic, simple and regular (6 noun cases, 3 verbal tenses, 1 verbal conjugation). All words and forms are consistently based on majority solutions, and each element is supposed to be almost universally understandable to Slavic speakers. The language was designed to be mixed easily with any of the native Slavic languages. Because Slovianski is a multi-purpose language, it is not a closed system with hard rules, one grammar model and orthography, but rather a flexible collection of proposed Interslavic language instruments, including numerous word building tools. There are several complexity levels, which are basically subset of each other: 1) Scientific Interslavic, a full diacritics-based Latin orthography conveying etymological and morphological information about the origin of words. It can be used for writing Slovianski or any other Interslavic language. “Slovianski Plus” is basically Slovianski written with some additions from this enriched alphabet in order to enhance understandability. 2) Standard Slovianski - the intermediate and most frequently used level. 3) Slovianto - a highly simplified experimental form of Interslavic (no noun cases, only 2 pronoun cases), designed to have an even lower complexity level than Slovio, but using natural forms only. NEOSLAVONIC Neoslavonic language (= Novoslovienski, Novoslovienskij jezyk) is an artificial evolution of the Old Church Slavonic language from the early Middle Ages, when it was the common literacy language for all Slavs, to a contemporary modern and universal language with its own rules etc. Neoslavonic can be regarded as the simplified overview of the vocabulary and grammar of all Slavic languages assembled together under limited number of rules, minimum exceptions, Interslavic vocabulary and simple Latin, Cyrillic (or Glagolitic) orthography. Neoslavonic contains additional words and grammatical elements that, while no longer used in today's languages, are still known in today's Slavic continuum in poetry, as archaisms or through derived words. Also, Neoslavonic grammar is more complex and somewhat more archaic, because it is the de-facto language descendant of the Church Slavonic. It includes elements that are no longer present in all Slavic languages (for example the South Slavic system with multiple past and future verb tenses, the Sorbian and Slovenian dual, the Russian present passive participle). This somewhat greater complexity has its advantages, too. A traveller can make himself understandable in some other Slavic country, however, local people will of course not respond in the same language but in their own language. Therefore, Neoslavonic contributes to a greater passive (e.g. receptive) understanding of the local spoken language as well. Even so, Neoslavonic grammar is not very complicated at all; a basic overview fits on two A4 pages only. COOPERATION Practically, differences between Slovianski and Neoslavonic are minimal. Slovianski is based on the commonalities of the living Slavic languages, but to ensure consistency, we never borrow straight from any living Slavic language but reconstruct proto-forms and take those as a starting point instead. On the other hand, Neoslavonic is Old Church Slavonic modernised through the prism of the modern languages. Not surprisingly, the results are often identical. Words, forms and conventions from one project can be very easily used in the other and vice versa, to the point that nobody can tell the difference anymore. This is even the case of some columns written in the Internet newspaper and the Internet discussions within our community. Both projects cooperate very closely. Our project members write and read in both language forms, have their discussions on the same Internet forums, share the same dictionary on the Internet (INTERSLAVIC LEXICON), the same Internet newspaper (IZVIESTIJA.info), as well as several other places. Moreover, we have chosen the name INTERSLAVIC as a common denominator for both our projects. Today it is hard to decide which of our two approaches is better. It is very likely that they will both inspire and enrich each other. In the meantime, we thoroughly enjoy our cooperation: the fruit of mutual appreciation of each other’s work, respecting differences in view, overcoming personal ambitions, constructive criticism and most of all, the belief that our common goal is best served if we work together. DISCLAIMER We have, at several occasions, invited Mark Hučko to cooperate with us as well. Despite our differences, we do appreciate his pioneering work and we still believe that Slovio is the part of the Interslavic family. Sadly, Mr. Hučko has chosen a different way. From the earliest days of our projects, his attitude towards our work has been extremely hostile. Initially, he attempted to ridicule it, and subsequently he launched a true hate campaign against us (including personal attacks, insults and even threats), while simultaneously trying to take credit for it. Among his more recent actions is the purchase of several domain names with the names of our projects (slovianski.eu, novoslovianski.com, interslavic.org, slovianto.com). All these pages are completely unrelated to our projects and presents various modification of Slovio under new names similar to our names. Obviously, the purpose is to confuse people who are potentially interested in our work, and to redirect them to Slovio instead. Mr. Hučko’s writings make it more than clear that he considers himself to be the exclusive owner of the entire concept of an Interslavic language, and that he hold us personally responsible for the failure of his own project. Other Slavic conlangs are consistently referred to as “plagiarised Slovio clones” or “useless and overcomplicated copy-cat languages”. We want to stress that this is not the case, and that the information contained on these and other pages is patently and deliberately false. Our projects do not use any Slovio material, and some coincidences are only the consequence of his and our projects being based on the same source material we worked with. The only possible exception is the fact that we explicitly mention the possibility of representing accented characters [č], [š], [ž] in plain ASCII as [cx], [sx], [zx], just like Slovio does. It should, however, be mentioned that this is not any Slovio invention at all, but a much older tradition for writing Esperanto. For the rest, we believe that no one has the moral right to call himself the only owner of Inter-Slavic vocabulary and grammar, because they are in the development by various authors in very long time period, and that the Interslavic language should never be used as a vehicle for anybody’s personal ambitions or financial gains. At last, we disapprove the way in which Slovio is propagated. CONCLUSION Both our Interslavic teams are perfectly aware of the fact that we are only in the beginning, and that there is still a lot of work ahead of us. We need to practice, produce more texts and other materials, and we always need more feedback from others. We, as the collaborative creators, do what we think is best, but we know very well that we cannot always take the right decision. Spoken languages are living things and we know that no conlang (Esperanto, Interlingua) or reconstructed modern national language (Slovak, Hebrew, Indonesian) in the world is used in the exactly same form as its authors first published it. Therefore we welcome anybody – linguist, non-linguist, native speaker, and non-native speaker – to join our ranks and work with us on this great task! THE INTERSLAVIC COMMUNITY, September 2011 |
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| iopq | Sep 15 2011, 06:10 PM Post #28 |
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Administrator
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I edited the thread title because all caps wasn't playing nice with the forum |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| bandziol20 | Sep 15 2011, 07:08 PM Post #29 |
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It's too long to make it swing. Shorter. Just about 75 % less. And it would be very enough. Memorandum I must read in one eye blink, for sure without rolling a site. Think about those non-Slavs who are eager for "an easy way to cope with all these strange Slave languages like : Russian & Belarussian, Slovene & Slovak, Ukrainian, Polish & Czech, Sorbian & Serbian, Croatian & Ukrainian. What a mess ! Sorry, but I doubt if I'm really interested in finding differences between these two more new Slavic languages like Novoslovienskij and Slovianski ! Give me a break ! Do we really want attract new people or allow someone else to do it ? |
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Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense. Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski. http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp | |
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| Vojtech | Sep 15 2011, 07:37 PM Post #30 |
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Hi!
I do not agree. Political memoranda are yet much longer, for example. We want also to explain something. This text must be self-consistent. Shorter text would rather initiate more subsequent questions for more information than provide clear undisputable information we want.
Yes, this is too complicated and not essential for the main message we want to say. Let it is removed.
Some kind of this explanation is needed, I thing. And this text is very polite - it speaks about different advantages of each other and the need for cooperation and mutual enrichments. The more general idea between lines is, that also Slovio is welcome to complete Interslavic movement, but Mark does not want to cooperate.
Not at all. At first I want to make order in naming chaos and defaming of our work made by Mark. At the second I want to explain new people who we are, who we are not, and what we are doing. This text is not primarily attracting new people. This text is about informing. cheers Edited by Vojtech, Sep 15 2011, 07:43 PM.
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...but we are all busy. I recognise that.
) words - it refers only to conditions of Slovianski itself, not to conditions of each natural Slavic language; here are words from different languages (both Slavic and others) there are also occasionalisms, it could be also words created by a new user (but not necessery) who doesn't know with what this whole Slovianski is eaten as well as an user with a "poetic" attitude
which of form is recommanded, which is optional and which is unidentified (for example by colors green, yellow or brown).

2:17 PM Jul 11