| Dobrodošli na forum Medžuslovjanskogo jezyka! Želajemo vam mnogo prijemnosti. Добродошли на форум Меджусловјанского језыка! Желајемо вам много пријемности. Welcome to Interslavic! We hope you enjoy your visit. Sejčas pogledajete naše forum kako gosť. To znači, že imajete ograničeny dostup do někojih česti forum i ne možete koristati vse funkcije. Ako li pristupite v našu grupu, budete imati svobodny dostup do sekcij preznačenyh jedino za členov, na pr. založeňje profila, izsylaňje privatnyh poslaň i učestničstvo v glasovaňjah. Zapisaňje se jest prosto, bystro i vpolno bezplatno. Сејчас погледајете наше форум како гость. То значи, же имајете ограничены доступ до некојих чести форум и не можете користати все функције. Ако ли приступите в нашу групу, будете имати свободны доступ до секциј презначеных једино за членов, на пр. заложеньје профила, изсыланьје приватных послань и учестничство в гласованьјах. Записаньје се јест просто, быстро и вполно безплатно. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Pristupite v našu grupu! Приступите в нашу групу! Join our community! Ako li už jeste člen, prijavite se, že byste mogli koristati vse možnosti: Ако ли уж јесте член, пријавите се, же бысте могли користати все можности: If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Greetings from Austria; organizations for slovio | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 10 2011, 05:36 AM (456 Views) | |
| Delfeno | Sep 10 2011, 05:36 AM Post #1 |
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Dobrju den! I am Otmar, 39 years old, from Innsbruck. Austria. I am Esperanto-speaker for many years and 1 was prezident of Austrian Esperanto-Youth-Association 14 years ago when this association was in a very bad situation. After for long time I was active in Austrian Esperanto-Federation. Well. It was never my ideo that Esperanto could become the ideal language for all over the world. But as language for Europe is was ideal. In the latest years we wanted to make projekt to promote Esperanto for economical projects - easiest for tourism. But that was already the beginning of the end. Not because of the language itself, simple many Esperanto-speaker believe in the "Interna Ideo" de Esperanto - that Esperanto is the language of piece and that makes very difficult to realize such projects within existing Esperanto-organisations. Also I was trying to collect different word and terms for a juristic dictionary Esperanto-German/etc. There are some old ones but I also had to realize that it is very difficult with Esperanto, because the termina also must be understood correctly in China, Africa ... But most of all i was missing slavic words in Esperanto. Yes, there is dom and kolbaso, but as slavic language become more and more important an European Union it is nothing for me :-) So i was looking in google for another planned language. First I found "Lingwa de Planeta" of linguistics from St. Peterburg. But soon I had to realize that this language is not interresting for people here - simple too difficult! And finally I found SLOVIO! Exactly that language that I was looking for exactly. MY QUESTION: How do you promote Slovio? Do you plan something similar like in Esperanto? A quief organisation for Slovio for general projects (congresses, language, etc) and then in every country an own that helps to inform about slovio, organizing Slovio-courses, meetings and little congresses that people meet other slovio-speaking people. This sistem i like in Esperanto very much and in generally works well. To finnish this long massage i wanted to say that i am also a little confused, because beside of Slovio.com I have found many other pages that referres to Slovio but with more "naturally" grammar like Slovio. So i dont know if this variations ( ja es cxitat - ja cxitaju, ti cxitajesx, etc) are possible in official Slovio or allready an other project. I was looking for a language that will be learned once in all Europe! Hope to receive many responses and would be glad to find many people that also speak Slovio or want to learn that. Pozdrav, Otti |
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| iopq | Sep 10 2011, 10:26 AM Post #2 |
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Administrator
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Why do you expect Europeans to learn a slavic language if they already don't know one? |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Sep 10 2011, 02:51 PM Post #3 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Hi Otmar, welcome! I can understand your confusion. It's a pretty sad thing, really. I don't really like to talk about Slovio, but since you ask, I'll explain... What we are doing here is known under names Slovianski and Medžuslovjanski, which means "Slavic" and "Interslavic" respectively. We've been doing this since 2006, but mostly as a continuation of many different older projects, some of which go back as far as the 17th century. The purpose is to describe a language that is understandable to all Slavs without any prior learning, and the ways it can be used are various: for communication between Slavs of various nationalities; as a help for non-Slavs who are visiting one or more Slavic countries, or work with them; as a means to reach Slavs of different nationalities all in one (f.ex. on websites); and also as a tool to gain some insight in Slavistics. Simplicity is not much of an issue here, because for Slavs, the easiest thing is a Slavic grammar, with all its ins and outs. Slovio is a completely different can of worms. All it has in common with Interslavic/Slovianski is that it is Slavic-based, but that's where it ends. There's some confusion about its purpose, because it has been redefined at several occasions, but I think it is safe to say that its primarily meant to for universal use, in other words, as a replacement for Esperanto, Interlingua etc. Slovio is typical conlang, with a grammar that is mostly based on Esperanto and a word stock that is mostly based on Russian. It has also been promoted as a language for Interslavic communication, but it has never functioned as such. In fact, all it has ever been used for is two things: promoting itself, and spreading its author's Slavic-nationalist and antisemitic views. I must warn you, because there is very little on the Slovio site that is actually true. Slovio propaganda tries to make people believe that it is a widely spoken and used language, but this is not (and has never been) the case. Right now there are only two active users. There have been a few more in the past, but the truth that only very few people have ever been able to accept it: Slavs because of its non-Slavic grammar and its highly synthetic character, non-Slavs for the simple reason that 90% of the word stock is based on one language only. Sadly, the creator of Slovio has been extremely hostile towards our work from the very beginning. First he tried to ridiculise it, when it turned out a success he launched a vicious hate campaign against us, and now that that didn't work either, he is trying to take credit for it, buying Internet domains under the names of other projects, spreading false information about them and claiming that all of them are Slovio dialects. So if you ask, how Slovio is being promoted, the answer is twofold: with all kinds of lies and gross exaggerations about its own successes and qualities on one hand, and with attacks against other projects (including the usual Esperanto criticism) on the other. I'm afraid, Otmar, that neither of these two projects is what you are looking for. Interslavic is not very simplified at all, simply because that is not the purpose of it. Sure, I have written a highly simplified grammar as well (Slovianto), but that doesn't change the fact that it is explicitly NOT meant to be a language for any kind of global or Pan-European use. And Slovio... well, see above. If you are interested in Slovio, then by all means learn it and start using it, but you'll find out soon enough that there won't really be anybody to talk to in it. Traditionally, IALs (both global and Pan-European ones) are either predominantly Romance or mixed Germanic/Romance, sometimes also predominantly Germanic (Volapük). What you are probably after is a Pan-European language that fairly takes into account the Slavic languages as well. You are right: the Slavic element in Esperanto is negligible (even though the entire phonology is pretty Slavic-based). For such a language to be really fair to all, about 1/4 of it should be Germanic-based, 1/4 Germanic-based, 1/4 Slavic-based, and 1/4 for the rest (Greek, Celtic, Baltic, Finnish, Hungarian, Georgian etc.). Question remains in how far 20 words from Finnish would make the language more attractive to the Finns, but that's a different discussion. To be honest, I don't know if such a language has ever been created, but I'm afraid not. The closest thing are projects based on Proto-Indo-European, like Sambahsa and Europaio. There are also global languages that incorporate materials from the major world languages (English, French, Spanish, Chinese, Hindi, Russian, Japanese, Arabic etc.). Cheers, Jan |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| Delfeno | Sep 11 2011, 06:01 PM Post #4 |
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Thank you for very detailed information. Please allow me some more information. What are Novoslovianski and Novoslovienski? Novoslovianski seems to be quite easy. Does is belong to Slovio or is that an other project? Where can I find a book or something more detailed to learn it? Hvala, Otti |
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| steeven | Sep 11 2011, 06:51 PM Post #5 |
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Otti Forget Slovio! It is dead. Es ist tot. There are two primary "panslavic languages" - both of which are very similar (slight differences in spelling and grammar). Please click on the following to go to their grammar/information sites: Slovianski (written in English) and Novoslovienskij (written in Novoslovienskij only) Slovianski is based upon the commonalities of living Slavic languages. Novoslovienskij is based upon Old Church Slavonic combined with features of modern & old Slavic languages. Both Slovianski and Novoslovienskij use a common lexicon of words: Interslavic Lexicon (they also use other "dictionaries" too). A Blog of Articles written in both Novoslovienskij and Slovianski may be found at: Izviestija
Edited by steeven, Sep 11 2011, 06:53 PM.
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| nonik | Sep 11 2011, 07:04 PM Post #6 |
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Slovio was invited to participate in Izviestija too, but nobody from Slovio write any column to Izviestia up today and propably will never write. |
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| IJzeren Jan | Sep 13 2011, 12:11 PM Post #7 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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That's right. Practically, it doesn't make much of a difference though. Slovianski is indeed based on the commonalities of the living Slavic languages, but it also tries to ascertain consistency, therefore we don't borrow words straight from any living Slavic language, but instead, we reconstruct a proto-form and take it from there. Novoslovienskij is based directly Old Church Slavonic, but modernised through the prism of the modern languages. The result is practically identical. That doesn't mean that there are no differences. Novoslovienskij is more, like, a language with rules, while Slovianski is made to be mixed easily with any of the natlangs. Slovianski grammar is based on majority solutions, and limits itself to forms that are (almost) universally understandable to Slavic speakers, while Novoslovienskij has a somewhat richer grammar (with multiple past tenses, for example, whereas Slovianski has only one past tense) and is undoubtedly more archaic. You can say that Novoslovienskij is one of the more sophisticated expressions of Slovianski, while Slovianski itself is more flexible, and allows for many different possibilities. Practically, it's almost the same thing though. Words, forms and conventions from one project can very easily be used in the other and vice versa, to the point that nobody can tell the difference. |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| Vojtech | Sep 14 2011, 10:14 AM Post #8 |
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Hi Otti (and Lena )just a little more info from me, because I absolutely agree with my colleagues here. Please, look at this piece of text: MEMORANDUM OF THE INTERSLAVIC COMMUNITY ABOUT SLOVIO FROM SEPTEMBER 2011 This is my way how to solve a confusion on the Internet made by Mark Hucko, the author of Slovio. all the best Vojta |
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2:17 PM Jul 11