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Representation of names in Slovianski; Was: Slovianska Wiki
Topic Started: Sep 6 2011, 02:08 PM (3,316 Views)
Moraczewski
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Steeven, in theory I agree with you that "People like order". But this topic has proven that there are cases where any order will cause more problems than it solves. First of all we have to treat latinica and kyrilica separately: while in Latin Paris is possible, in Cyrillic Парис is impossible, and that's just one example.
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

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steeven
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Andrej Ivan'ic
Dare I ask "Why"? :unsure:
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Moraczewski
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steeven
Nov 28 2011, 09:12 AM
Andrej Ivan'ic
Dare I ask "Why"? :unsure:
This is why: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81
And I didn't mention Цамбридге as well.
Edited by Moraczewski, Nov 28 2011, 11:38 AM.
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

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steeven
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Andrej,
Personally, I do not think that a critical or life-threatening "conflict" will exist if we formally adopt the cyrillic word-form "ПАРИС" for the French capital city, vis-á-vis "ПАРИС" of Greek mythology.
A better reason, perhaps, would be what form would best be recognised by Slavic readers?
The Slavic languages, alas, use a few different orthographies for naming this City:
ru = Париж
be = Парыж
uk = Париж
pl = Paryż
cs = Paříž
sk = Paríž
sl = Pariz
hr = Pariz
sr = Париз
mk = Париз
bg = Париж
dsb = Paris
hsb = Paris

Based on the above, what would you suggest?
1. PARIŽ - ПАРИЖ
2. PARYŽ - ПАРЫЖ
3. PARIZ - ПАРИЗ
4. PARŽIŽ - ПАРЖИЖ
5. PARIS - ПАРИС

Whatever your choice, I suggest that we use the French official spelling of its own capital name for both our Latinica and Kirilica versions:
PARIS - ПАРИС
and ADD your (or, rather, our collective agreed upon) choice as an equal option.
Is that fair and equitable? Je li to spredlivo?
.
:D
Edited by steeven, Nov 28 2011, 06:27 PM.
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Kozica
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so maybe first rule should be:
if you write slovianski in cyrillic, you always treat non-slavonic names phonetic
second could be:
if you write polish names in cyrillic, you treat rz->r/ř, ą->a, ę->e, ć->t, ś->s

in short:
1) if in cyrillic, always phonetic
2) if polish in cyrillic rz->r/ř, ą->a, ę->e, ć->t, ś->s

comments?
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steeven
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Kozica
Nov 28 2011, 06:39 PM
rz->r/ř, ą->a, ę->e, ć->t, ś->s
in short:
1) if in cyrillic, always phonetic
2) if polish in cyrillic rz->r/ř, ą->a, ę->e, ć->t, ś->s

comments?
I think that "we" already have a protocol for this - based upon linguistic principles.
That is why Jan vS &cie has developed Naučny Medžuslovjanski ...Vidij TU
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Moraczewski
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steeven
Nov 28 2011, 06:22 PM
and ADD your (or, rather, our collective agreed upon) choice as an equal option.
Is that fair and equitable? Je li to spredlivo?
It's not only Paris that matters. Цамбридге, Бирмингхам, Манцхестер and Неў Ыорк long for justice as well.
Edited by Moraczewski, Nov 28 2011, 08:18 PM.
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

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pawel

I think the solution to the latent misunderstandings is that we use phonetical calques from the languages e.g. Geneva,Munich ,Cologne have cleary different translation in Russian and Polish je trouve la solution aux maletendues cache consiste en notre usage les calques phonitiques des langages ,por example Geneve ,Munich,Cologne ont traducions clairement differentes em russe et em polognaise ich meine ,dass die Lo:sung fu:r die latenten Misversta:ndnisse bestehet sich daraus, Lehnu:bersetzung zu verwenden z.B Mu:nchen ,Genf,Ko:ln haben bedeutent andere U:bersetzungen auf Rusische und auf Polen wojue/de zhe ge wei\ qian/zai\de wu\hui\ de jieejue/fang-an\ shi shiiyong\jie/shi\ li/ruu ri\nei wa-,mu-ni hei-,ke-long/ yoou ming/que\ bu/tong\fan-yi\ zai\ e-luosi yuu he bo-lan yuu zhong pienso que la resolucion a los malentendidos latentes consiste en nuestros utilidos de los qualques,por exemple Ginebra,munich e colonia han traducciones claremente differentes en polaco e russo acho que a solucao aos mal-entendidos latentes consiste em emprego dos calques por examplo munique,genebra,colonha hao traducaos claremento differentes em russo e polaco
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iopq
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Ore mo so: omou
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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Moraczewski
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we're trolled
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

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bandziol20
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What is for Vienna in Slovianski ?
Glasovanje je čista gluposť. Voting is a pure nonsense.
Pišem slovjansky. I write Slovianski.

http://www.conlangs.fora.pl/index.php
http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/dynamic_dictionary.html
http://dict.interslavic.com/index.jsp
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iopq
Administrator
bandziol20
May 5 2012, 08:39 AM
What is for Vienna in Slovianski ?
Ведень - Ukr, West Slavic (2.5)
Вена/Виена - Ru, Bel, Mk, Bg (2.5)

I'd pick Виена because those that don't know either of those options at least can guess it by the fact that it's the international name of the city
Edited by iopq, May 5 2012, 09:01 AM.
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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steeven
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iopq
May 5 2012, 09:00 AM
I'd pick Виена
So in Latin:
1. Viena ?
2. Vijena ?
3. Vjena ?
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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nonik

Bécs - Wien :)
Edited by nonik, May 7 2012, 11:47 AM.
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iopq
Administrator
steeven
May 6 2012, 11:56 PM
iopq
May 5 2012, 09:00 AM
I'd pick Виена
So in Latin:
1. Viena ?
2. Vijena ?
3. Vjena ?
just Viena probably
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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