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Flavourisation; Northern vs. Southern Slovianski
Topic Started: Dec 6 2010, 12:16 PM (5,249 Views)
Moraczewski
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I pronounce here: PRVY, SMRŤ, TRG
http://www.4shared.com/audio/9j6MtZCU/prvy.html
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

[čćч]
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Gabriel Svoboda

Here is my recording:

http://www.4shared.com/account/audio/UfGtF0xb/prvi.html

pr@vi, smr@t, tr@g, p@rvi, sm@rt, t@rg, and then the same repeated with rhotacist r
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Moraczewski
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Gabriel Svoboda
Dec 11 2010, 12:16 PM
Here is my recording:

http://www.4shared.com/account/audio/UfGtF0xb/prvi.html

pr@vi, smr@t, tr@g, p@rvi, sm@rt, t@rg, and then the same repeated with rhotacist r
Right, I'm pronouncing it as p@rvi, t@rg, sm@rť, it's the only natural way for me to do it. why do you say that it's impossible?
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

[čćч]
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Gabriel Svoboda

Quote:
 
Right, I'm pronouncing it as p@rvi, t@rg, sm@rť, it's the only natural way for me to do it. why do you say that it's impossible?


It's not impossible, all I say is that some people naturally put the schwa elsewhere (pr@vi, tr@g, smr@ť), which might be confusing for those who say p@rvi, t@rg, sm@rť, or parvi, targ, smarť, or pervi, torg, smerť. Ergo it would be great not to introduce the schwa at all (even though it might be unavoidable due to the lack of less bad options).

What I insist is impossible is [prvi], [trg], [smrť].
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
I made a recording, too: http://www.4shared.com/audio/tic_cQcA/prvy-smrt-trg.html
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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iopq
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4aqM_wu6Ns#t=59s

mrtveho sounds fine to me, you're making up a problem where one doesn't exist
Edited by iopq, Dec 11 2010, 04:02 PM.
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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Moraczewski
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In fact this @ in normal speech is so short that it won't matter. If it's natural for Czechs to say @ after R, and we still understand them, then fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgQm0_7VGjc
Slovenes, it seems, say @ before R, you can hear it: DRŽAVA SKRBI

So with speakers of languages that have syllabic R we have no problems.

We'll have problems only if anyone will do it like "PR@@@@@VY", but who will? Languages that don't have syllabic R have the vowel BEFORE R.
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

[čćч]
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pne
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Gabriel Svoboda
Dec 11 2010, 12:16 PM
Here is my recording:

http://www.4shared.com/account/audio/UfGtF0xb/prvi.html

pr@vi, smr@t, tr@g, p@rvi, sm@rt, t@rg, and then the same repeated with rhotacist r
o.o The first set sounds like "p@rvi sm@rt' tr@g" to me, or probably rather like "prvi smrt' trg" without vowel at all.

I'm guessing the first set is your natural pronunciation? Then I think it should be quite fine.
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Moraczewski
Dec 11 2010, 05:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgQm0_7VGjc
Slovenes, it seems, say @ before R, you can hear it: DRŽAVA SKRBI
Hehe, I haven't opened the link yet, but this MUST be Laibach, right? ... OBLAST JE PRI NAS, OBLAST JE PRI NAS LJUDSKA! ... Hehe, I don't know Slovene or BCSM, but I know this text almost by heart! :)

Quote:
 
So with speakers of languages that have syllabic R we have no problems.

Yeah, I think so. After all, the difference is subtle. It doesn't really make that much of a difference at all. I doesn't even matter if Gabriel perceives something like [pr@vi] and others like [p@rvi]... We can all understand it anyway.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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wannabeme
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Pne, you are not of slavic origin, arent you? Not so important only interesting your pronounciation of R :)
I would say rather kind of German r.
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wannabeme
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Serbian sylabic R sounds exactly the way Jan pronounced it.
So for us doesnt matter if you say pervi, parvi, pˊrvi it is important that its er, ar, 'r and not re, ra, r'.
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Eugeniusx
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wannabeme: Pne, you are not of slavic origin, arent you? Not so important only interesting your pronounciation of R
I would say rather kind of German r.
===
May be he´s a Sorbian or speaks a Silesian dialect which I heard a view week ago in Southern Poland, both use the German (Hochdeutsch) and French "r".
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wannabeme
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I ask him because I want him to teach me to pronounce that R. I simply dont know how.
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
What Philip used was an uvular trill. In some languages it is the standard, in Slavic it's often considered a speech defect, which doesn't mean you can't hear it. Polish prime minister Donald Tusk has exactly this kind of R.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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wannabeme
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IJzeren Jan
Dec 11 2010, 07:11 PM
What Philip used was an uvular trill. In some languages it is the standard, in Slavic it's often considered a speech defect, which doesn't mean you can't hear it. Polish prime minister Donald Tusk has exactly this kind of R.
Serbian radical politician too, dr. Vojislav Šešelj. But, Jan, how can I pronounce uvular R.
The way I heare its more kind of arabic H than R.
Edited by wannabeme, Dec 11 2010, 08:36 PM.
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