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| Flavourisation; Northern vs. Southern Slovianski | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 6 2010, 12:16 PM (5,252 Views) | |
| IJzeren Jan | Dec 8 2010, 01:19 PM Post #61 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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I've never seen the division into six as a population thing, but rather as a matter of closely related (and mutually understandable) languages: - RU - BE/UK - PL - CZ/SK - SL/SH - MK/BG But an alternative and definitely easier solution would be a mini-vote: instead of 1 million speakers, work with languages of only 8-9 million speakers. Then we get: - RU - UK - PL - CZ - SH - BG Belarussian would be represented by either Russian, Ukrainian or Polish anyway. Slovak by either Czech, Polish or Ukrainian. If they don't agree with any of those, their input wouldn't have a chance anyway. And like I said, if population really matters that much, than we should use some kind of Simplified Russian. Native language of some 45% of all Slavs, second language of 15-20%, passively understood by another bunch. |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| iopq | Dec 8 2010, 03:27 PM Post #62 |
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well we could have a language 90% understandable to Russians and 85% understandable to serbs or a language that's 87% understandable to both neither view is wrong, I feel we should go for the former option, you feel we should go for the latter well in the case of TorT and TolT we probably hit 90% understandable to Russian AND Serbian if we go with -ra- and -la- just because most words in Russian have CS doublets that mean a similar thing if we go with -ra- I think raz- and rabota is fine for similarity however, if we have vlk or prst this reduces understandability to Russians dramatically, not to mention the reaction "HOW THE HELL DO YOU READ THIS IT HAS NO VOWELS IS THIS A TYPO" if we have volk and your language has vlk you probably don't mind, because every language has vowels if your language has volk and we have vlk you are really confused because your language may not even know the concept of a syllabic liquid if your language has vovk or vouk and we have vlk you probably won't see a connection at all Edited by iopq, Dec 8 2010, 03:31 PM.
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| wannabeme | Dec 8 2010, 06:23 PM Post #63 |
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ra, la ok from me ol - ok from my side er or r - decide withouth me |
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| IJzeren Jan | Dec 8 2010, 08:05 PM Post #64 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Yup!
Yeah, but following your own logic, that shouldn't count: oł > ou in Belarussian and Ukrainian is the same kind of thing as lexicalised akanje in the case of -ara-, after all. If you don't want to count the latter, then you shouldn't count the former either. Besides, let's face it: how many Belarussians and Ukrainians are there who are NOT familiar with the Russian equivalent -ol-? But this point if pretty moot. We have already decided to keep -ol-. It's the majority decision, after all. And it is not so problematic, because in all languages except Polish and Slovak soft L is hardened anyway. In the case of R it's different. But tell me: how do първы, смърть, вълк, тълсты, жълты, бършч etc. look to you? And what do you think of Vojta's solution: p`rvy, sm`rť, v`lk, t`lsty, ž`lty, b`ršč? |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| Moraczewski | Dec 8 2010, 08:26 PM Post #65 |
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Those are pretty fine for Russian, also Bulgarians will be pleased. But Vojta's apostrophes is the thing I'm never going to use. You know well how many people were complaining about omnipresent apostrophes in Slovianski-2008, and Vojta system has them probably even more. |
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"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal". František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831. [čćч] | |
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| iopq | Dec 8 2010, 08:39 PM Post #66 |
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Administrator
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not true because ьл, ъл > ов is a lexical change that doesn't have other reflexes in Belarusian and Ukrainian and no check words there is basically no way to know that вовк has an л in it in other words it's possible to tell what the original vowel was, like голад - галодны shows that the original form is голод in words that don't have stress alternations even Russian gets it wrong sometimes, like пором became паром due to lack of spelling tradition and unclear pronunciation but in most cases akanje is not lexicalized, I just saw a clip where a Russian guy was yelling at the woman he was breaking up with and actually pronouncing his O's for emphasis... I like първы more than првы because I know that ъ is a vowel, but we don't have that vowel in Slovianski, and I really dislike p`rvy if anything it should be pərvy, lol |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| Moraczewski | Dec 8 2010, 08:47 PM Post #67 |
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wow give link ![]() probably he was from north-east |
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"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal". František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831. [čćч] | |
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| iopq | Dec 8 2010, 09:33 PM Post #68 |
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uhh, no, it's a very common thing you can tell he's from an area where akanje is the standard NSFW NOT SAFE FOR WORK DO NOT CLICK HAS A BUNCH OF PORN ADS ON THE SIDE http://www.mentalzero.com/Reality-Show-Slut-Beaten-For-Cheating-On-Her-Boyfriend-974.html at 0:37 he clearly says ни-что-же-ство right after saying ничтожъства a second earlier that's what I mean |
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Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
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| gossips | Dec 8 2010, 10:03 PM Post #69 |
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The first look normal, the second look frightful. |
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Višla matka kuročka, S nej mali kuriati: "Ko-ko-ko, Ko-ko-ko, Nesimati hoditi daleko!" | |
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| IJzeren Jan | Dec 8 2010, 11:39 PM Post #70 |
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Jan van Steenbergen
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Yeah, I kinda agree. I quite like the aesthetics of NS, but these things look a bit like wrats on an otherwise very pretty body. OTOH there's not really an alternative either. The best I can propose is that prvy is automatically transliterated as първы and vice versa. [čćч] |
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Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
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| gossips | Dec 9 2010, 12:03 AM Post #71 |
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We may use some synthetic solution here. Something like that Igor has mentioned above.
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Višla matka kuročka, S nej mali kuriati: "Ko-ko-ko, Ko-ko-ko, Nesimati hoditi daleko!" | |
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| steeven | Dec 9 2010, 12:16 AM Post #72 |
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I do not like it. And my kolegi many months ago almost set fire to their offices when that many apostrophes were used!!
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| gossips | Dec 9 2010, 12:30 AM Post #73 |
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Even those, which are in Cyrillic (with yers)? If so, then - why? |
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Višla matka kuročka, S nej mali kuriati: "Ko-ko-ko, Ko-ko-ko, Nesimati hoditi daleko!" | |
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| steeven | Dec 9 2010, 04:06 AM Post #74 |
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първы, смърть, вълк, тълсты, жълты, бършч are fine (ale-no latinica s apostrofi jes anathema ) |
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Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
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| wannabeme | Dec 9 2010, 06:16 AM Post #75 |
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We can construct or impert yers for latin alph. |
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