| Dobrodošli na forum Medžuslovjanskogo jezyka! Želajemo vam mnogo prijemnosti. Добродошли на форум Меджусловјанского језыка! Желајемо вам много пријемности. Welcome to Interslavic! We hope you enjoy your visit. Sejčas pogledajete naše forum kako gosť. To znači, že imajete ograničeny dostup do někojih česti forum i ne možete koristati vse funkcije. Ako li pristupite v našu grupu, budete imati svobodny dostup do sekcij preznačenyh jedino za členov, na pr. založeňje profila, izsylaňje privatnyh poslaň i učestničstvo v glasovaňjah. Zapisaňje se jest prosto, bystro i vpolno bezplatno. Сејчас погледајете наше форум како гость. То значи, же имајете ограничены доступ до некојих чести форум и не можете користати все функције. Ако ли приступите в нашу групу, будете имати свободны доступ до секциј презначеных једино за членов, на пр. заложеньје профила, изсыланьје приватных послань и учестничство в гласованьјах. Записаньје се јест просто, быстро и вполно безплатно. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Pristupite v našu grupu! Приступите в нашу групу! Join our community! Ako li už jeste člen, prijavite se, že byste mogli koristati vse možnosti: Ако ли уж јесте член, пријавите се, же бысте могли користати все можности: If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| i/y distinction | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 21 2007, 07:33 AM (2,331 Views) | |
| IJzeren Jan | Nov 17 2010, 01:12 AM Post #46 |
|
Jan van Steenbergen
|
Methinks that the audible difference between i and y is of far greater importance than the question whether k/g/h would be softened or not. And its just a fact that a vast majority of the languages that make this distinction have ki/gi/hi and not ky/gy/hy. When I see "slovjansky" I tend to pronounce it the Ukrainian way, which quite obviously is a minority solution. Besides, even if the velars are indeed somewhat softened, this will definitely not lead to any kind of misunderstanding. And a soft k before i still has a lot more votes than ky-pronounced-the-Ukrainian-way. |
|
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
![]() |
|
| iopq | Nov 17 2010, 01:35 AM Post #47 |
|
Administrator
|
if you were Gabriel, you'd pronounce it slovjanski -sky or -ski doesn't even matter what is the pronunciation of y? |
|
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
![]() |
|
| steeven | Nov 17 2010, 01:40 AM Post #48 |
|
I want to remark that while TODAY the nasal ę has, perhaps, all but disappeared from Polish, I do very much recall my great-grandfather, with his deep basso timbre, saying "język" with what I could only call a very nasalised "ɛn" - which he also mirrored in his pronunciation of "się". His wife and his daughter (my grandmother), insist that the nasalised sounds carried on in South-Eastern Poland longer than anywhere else in Poland. I would appreciate hearing some feedback from Polish speakers familiar with dialects? Edited by steeven, Nov 17 2010, 01:42 AM.
|
|
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
![]() |
|
| IJzeren Jan | Nov 17 2010, 03:59 AM Post #49 |
|
Jan van Steenbergen
|
I'd say anything between [ i ] and [ 1 ] ("Russian" y). As for Polish -ą: nowadays, it pronounced [E] by most people when finally. AFAIK that's the case in Southeast Poland as well. About 2 years ago, we had a nanny from Jarosław, but except for some South-specific vocabulary ("na pole" instead of "na dwór", for example), I can't really say here Polish was substantially different from my wife's, here in Central Poland. People from Kraków sound a lot weirder to me, to tell you the truth. |
|
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
![]() |
|
| Moraczewski | Nov 17 2010, 05:43 AM Post #50 |
|
Why can't we just say that Slovianski doesn't have k' as phoneme and it will solve everything: no matter how you pronounce ki you won't be misunderstood. |
|
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal". František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831. [čćч] | |
![]() |
|
| IJzeren Jan | Nov 17 2010, 11:01 AM Post #51 |
|
Jan van Steenbergen
|
Exactly. All in all, it doesn't really make much of a difference at all. |
|
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim. Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански [čćч] | |
![]() |
|
| Kozica | Nov 20 2010, 01:53 PM Post #52 |
|
steeven-> dialects are rare in modern polish. There are no much examples from IJzeren Jan's "na pole" and "na dwór". Many people say, hear and write "jenzyk", "sie", "maużeństwo" instead of "jezyk", "się" and "małżeństwo" or "idoł" instead of "idą". Not "wątroba" but "wontroba" etc, etc iopq-> the pronunciation of "y" is voice of litte hiccup so difference between "sky" "ski" is "sk<hiccup>" and "ski" |
![]() |
|
| iopq | Nov 23 2010, 12:54 PM Post #53 |
|
Administrator
|
*stares at the screen* *closes thread* *comes back a few days later, stares at the screen again, again in puzzlement* what does this even mean? |
|
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general. Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr" | |
![]() |
|
| gossips | Nov 23 2010, 02:10 PM Post #54 |
|
Oh, lol, you're a poet! |
|
Višla matka kuročka, S nej mali kuriati: "Ko-ko-ko, Ko-ko-ko, Nesimati hoditi daleko!" | |
![]() |
|
| Radonescu | Nov 24 2010, 05:04 AM Post #55 |
|
Sup, guys! I think you know not worse than me that the difference of usage "i" vs "y" is dictated by nothing else than history. If we collect all words from all Slav languages where i\y distinction is made - you can have both "-i" or "-y" ending in the plural, you can have equally both them in the adjectives. For e.g. Russian: отцы - глазки красный - синенький So, IMO, we can make such a simple rule: in adjectives\plural endings we always use -y, except when preceeded k\g\h. Hence, "Slovjanski", but "dobry" And additionaly: the consonant L is never followed by Y, but rather I (because two parallel pronounciations of L exists in Slavic languages and making L not preceeding Y will nulify those). |
![]() |
|
| steeven | Nov 24 2010, 05:12 AM Post #56 |
|
One of the reasons we distinguished originally the adjectival endings in Slovioski was ... just for that reason - so that people would recognise adjectives by their distinctive endings (here I am addressing the broader need of non-Slavic speakers, which I know many of you don't give a hoot about, but I do). Thus, up until yesterday, Slovioski used the masculine adjectival ending of "-ij" These have now been changed to "-y". But plural of masculine and feminine nouns remains "-i" and neuter, "-a" I would urge that these remain as such.
|
|
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation: 1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic 2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?" 3. Avoid "conflicts" www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon | |
![]() |
|
| Radonescu | Nov 24 2010, 05:39 AM Post #57 |
|
The main argument behind using "-y" in masculine\feminine plural is that AFAIK all Slav languages having i\y distinction put "-y" in plural endings. Except g\k\h, as was said before. But for the sake of simplicity, yes, only "-i" in M\F plural is a better choice. |
![]() |
|
| Moraczewski | Nov 24 2010, 06:13 AM Post #58 |
|
Hm, this doesn't seem reasonable. Y is supposed to be hard vowel, not allowing soft L pronunciation. |
|
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal". František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831. [čćч] | |
![]() |
|
| Radonescu | Nov 24 2010, 09:04 AM Post #59 |
|
AFAIK, the Poles and Yugoslavs pronounce L softly - as in German or French and aren't used to "Dark L" pronounciation (the Ł doesn't count), which is standard for most other Slav natlangs. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
![]() |
|
| Moraczewski | Nov 24 2010, 10:54 AM Post #60 |
|
Polish and Jugoslav L, as well as Czech and German and French is so-called "central european L" which is harder than Russian or BCSM ль/lj Anyway, this is matter of orthography distinction, but in pronunciation it doesn't matter that much. What matters is that LY can not be pronounced with East Russian, BCSM, Slovene or Slovak "soft L", but "central european L" is allowed, because this is natural way of pronouncing "LY" for CZ, SK and South Slavic. Polish yes, it is up to choice of the reader, if a Pole pronounces with Ł or with L - it will not affect the understandability. The same goes to pronunciation of words like "pisatelj", even if you pronounce "pisatel" with "dark L" it will be understood. |
|
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal". František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831. [čćч] | |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Fonologija i pravopis · Next Topic » |






2:15 PM Jul 11