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Naučni Slovianski [čćч]
Topic Started: Jul 2 2010, 12:53 PM (4,748 Views)
Gabriel Svoboda

Russian and south Slavic kœgda wins over west Slavic, Ukrainian and Belarusian kœgdy.
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steeven
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Gabriel Svoboda
Jul 28 2012, 05:06 PM
Russian and south Slavic kœgda wins over west Slavic, Ukrainian and Belarusian kœgdy.
IJzeren Jan
 
"...the ending -a vs. -i is the only element where the vote isn't really conclusive. It's 3 votes for -a (Russian, South Slavic) vs. 3 votes for -y (West Slavic, Ukrainian, Belarussian). The former solutions wins if we follow the principle that in case of a 3/3 vote Russian wins. However, we might also "weigh" the votes somehow. Look at this:

RU kogda, kogdy = 5, 4
UK, BE kogda, kogdy = 3, 4
PL kogda, kogdy = 3, 4
CS, SK kogda, kogdy = 2, 3
SL, SH kogda, kogdy = 3, 2
MK, BG kogda, kogdy = 4, 3

The Russians don't really "need" the -a, they'll understand kogdy equally well. The Bulgarians and the Macedonians already have "kog-" which should be enough to do the trick for them as well. If you count the remaining votes, you get 3 for kogdy and 1 for kogda. The only real "victims" of kogdy would be the Slovenes and the BCMS speakers, but then, of kogda would make some victims, too (Czechs and Slovaks). So kogdy is arguably better understandable, and besides, it is more neutral, because indeed, "kogda" happens to be identical to Russian, a fact that not everybody seems to appreciate. I could live with "kogdy" instead of "kogda"...."
Edited by steeven, Jul 28 2012, 08:37 PM.
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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iopq
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you can't say either one is wrong, they should both exist as variants
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Amen to that!
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
[čćч]
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Gabriel Svoboda
Jul 28 2012, 02:46 PM
I tried to write a short text in the "new" NMS and I was quite scared by the high nubmer of œ's and ĵ's ("contractible j's") I had to use. So I want to ask if everything is correct about the following:

- s drėvœm, s peklœm
- bez kœgo
- drugœ (neuter singular adjective)
- ob tœm
- kœgda
- vœprositì
(so in fact we have no ò any more, just œ)

- s zmijèĵų
- on karaĵe, on znaĵe, on odděľaĵe

- tœĵ
- ob našœĵ, ob svobodnœĵ (it's contractible, cf. Czech o svobodné)
- tvœĵa (it's contractible, cf. Czech tvá)
- ob svœĵèĵ (it's contractible, cf. Czech o své)
No no, the œ is not there to replace ò, otherwise we might as well have written dobrògo.

Œ is to be used only in cases of contraction: dobrajego > dobrogo/dobrego > NMS dobrœgo.

So it remains s drėvòm. However drugœ is correct (cf. Russian -oje).

I am not sure about kogo and o tom. Mind that even Polish has kogo, not *kiego.

Vœprositi is definitely wrong, but I'm not sure what would be the correct solution. What is the prefix here? If it is v-, then it should simply be vprositi. If it is v(o)z-, then it should be vzprositi or vozprositi.

[čćч]
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
[čćч]
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
BTW I agree that dobrœ looks quite bad, and that if you write a text in "clean" NMS you'll get lots of those babies.

Still, it's an important distinction; and although there is some overlap with ò, it's still a fundamentelly different thing. Ò refers to Ъ and to unetymological fill vowels, Œ to cases of contraction. They don't necessarily behave the same way within one language. F.ex. Slovak has -eho, but o for ъ. Serbo-Croat has -og(a), but a for ъ.

Interestlngly, Interslavic projects by Czech authors tend to favour -ego, while projects by South Slavic authors tend to favour -ogo. One way or the other, that difference must be overbridged somehow.

And voting won't be of much help here. In the gen.sg.m/n there is a clear majority for -ogo, but in the case of the nom.sg.n. the majority says -e (because Ukrainian has dobre/dobroho).
Edited by IJzeren Jan, Jul 29 2012, 12:16 AM.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
[čćч]
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Xfing
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Well, the whole goal in the Nauczny pronunciation is to find the absolute middle ground. And I'm liking it.
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