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Writing without many apostrophes
Topic Started: Feb 17 2010, 09:12 AM (1,189 Views)
iopq
Administrator
it's produkcija medi i stali
that's another reason to keep med' because med' declines as a soft feminine adjective (so we don't lose that information)

but the number of words disambiguated by the soft ending is large
zsest' - zsest
test' - test
mel' - mel
come to mind in Russian

as far as infinitives, no language has -t infinitives, except for Czech, and Czech actually got that from from the supine (-ti infinitives were used in Czech earlier as well)

ti infinitives >>>>> t infinitives
also, if we have ti infinitives we can just make "to go" iti
it will allow us to make suffixed verbs like pojti, ujti, etc.
I've never been a fan of a form like idet' because of the huge amount of suffixes that this verb takes... we'd have an ugly form in about every sentence

Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Quote:
 
it's produkcija medi i stali
that's another reason to keep med' because med' declines as a soft feminine adjective (so we don't lose that information)

Yep, you're right and I was wrong. Both are indeed feminine. So indeed, without apostropes it would be "produkcija medi i stali", and in the nominative "nasza med i stal jesut najdobre na svete". So indeed, the word being feminine basically takes care of the issue.

Quote:
 
but the number of words disambiguated by the soft ending is large
zsest' - zsest
test' - test
mel' - mel
come to mind in Russian

Indeed, and the genitive of test shouldn't be testa if a father-in-law is meant. OTOH testj doesn't look good either.

Quote:
 
as far as infinitives, no language has -t infinitives, except for Czech, and Czech actually got that from from the supine (-ti infinitives were used in Czech earlier as well)

ti infinitives >>>>> t infinitives
also, if we have ti infinitives we can just make "to go" iti
it will allow us to make suffixed verbs like pojti, ujti, etc.
I've never been a fan of a form like idet' because of the huge amount of suffixes that this verb takes... we'd have an ugly form in about every sentence


(moved the discussion about infinitives to a separate thread)
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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iopq
Administrator
it doesn't take care of it in the case of "Eksporti Polskoj su med i stal."
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
iopq
Feb 19 2010, 05:33 PM
it doesn't take care of it in the case of "Eksporti Polskoj su med i stal."

Indeed, that's true. And therefore I think in these particular cases we better get rid of the infinitives on -t' and leave other final apostrophes in place. That way we still have disambiguation between med and med', but apostrophes won't be so omnipresent anymore.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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Gabriel Svoboda

If apostrophes are to be reduced, have you also considered the long-ago given proposal to use ł and l insteead of l and l'?
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
And what would be the advantage of that? Ł exists only on the Polish keyboard, and as far as I know, its value is not exactly common knowledge among other Slavs; neither would it be obvious to them that L is L' by definition. Yet everybody, even Poles, can write L'. Besides, don't forget that L' is not that frequent in Slovianski. As it stands, it is used only at the end of nouns, like in pisatel'.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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Silmethule
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Quote:
 
Ł exists only on the Polish keyboard, and as far as I know, its value is not exactly common knowledge among other Slavs;

Biełaruskaja łacinka jašče maje ł. ;-)
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steeven
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Silmethule
Apr 11 2010, 07:30 PM
Quote:
 
Ł exists only on the Polish keyboard, and as far as I know, its value is not exactly common knowledge among other Slavs;

Biełaruskaja łacinka jašče maje ł. ;-)

My Microsoft Czech and Slovak Keyboards also have " ł " (as well as Polish keyboard, of course).
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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iopq
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Gabriel Svoboda
Apr 11 2010, 01:15 AM
If apostrophes are to be reduced, have you also considered the long-ago given proposal to use ł and l insteead of l and l'?

the problem is that we'll end up writing beła and if we do we'll be forced to write bełi for consistency
which is close to introducing i/y distinction but only after ł/l
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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