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Phonetical, morfological, historical orthography
Topic Started: Feb 12 2010, 09:04 AM (1,548 Views)
Moraczewski
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i isn't suitable, because nobody except Ukrainians is able to type it.

videnje is really most fine decision. Also it exists in South Slavic languages, and somehow it is closer to Ukrainian/Belarusian -
"I nent pochyby, e kdokoli chce a um, můe sobě stworiti jazyk krsn, bohat, libozwučn a wemoně dokonal: ale jazyk takow nebudě wce nrodnim, alebr osobnm jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
Frantiek Palack. Posudek o českm jazyku spisovnm, 1831.

[čćч]
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iopq
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I've come to the conclusion there is no good way of writing cyrillic that just has the common letters between cyrillic alphabets (save serbian)

there's always the problem of writing je, unless one assumes that it always softens Russian-style
at which point you have to start writing , (seeing), (seen)
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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Moraczewski
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If we have a rule that cyrillic e is never [je], there is no more problem. nje = ; videnje = . Pretty regular and clear for everyone.
"I nent pochyby, e kdokoli chce a um, můe sobě stworiti jazyk krsn, bohat, libozwučn a wemoně dokonal: ale jazyk takow nebudě wce nrodnim, alebr osobnm jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
Frantiek Palack. Posudek o českm jazyku spisovnm, 1831.

[čćч]
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iopq
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that doesn't solve the йесть problem
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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Vojta
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Jarvi
Feb 14 2010, 09:22 AM
If we have a rule that cyrillic e is never [je], there is no more problem. nje = ; videnje = e. Pretty regular and clear for everyone.

Boys, I do not see your cyrillic letters you wrote. There is something wrong. Am I only one?


Vojtěch Merunka
НОВОСЛОВЯНСКИ http://neoslavonic.org
СЛОВЯНСКИ СОВЕЗ http://slovane.org
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Moraczewski
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Vojta, you have to switch the Encoding to either Unicode or Windows Cyr

Igor, yes, that doesn't solve йесть. But it is better than виденийе at least.
"I nent pochyby, e kdokoli chce a um, můe sobě stworiti jazyk krsn, bohat, libozwučn a wemoně dokonal: ale jazyk takow nebudě wce nrodnim, alebr osobnm jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
Frantiek Palack. Posudek o českm jazyku spisovnm, 1831.

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iopq
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if we're using й, then it's виденйе
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
"iopq"
 
but your version of cyrillic is looks horrible anyway, since you'd spell it виденйе

Nope. That would really be raping Cyrillics. The rule for non-Serbian Cyrillic is pretty simple: ь (soft sign) comes after consonants, й in all other cases. So it's виденье (actually: видженье).

Quote:
 
so we could write виденіе

And why wouldn't we simply write видение in that case? In Latin that would become videnie, something many people seem to prefer over -je anyway.

Quote:
 
серіозни = серjозни > серйозни

I'd say: серьозни

й should NEVER comes after a consonant. The only exception are situations when prefixes are involved, like йехать > одйехать.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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Moraczewski
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IJzeren Jan
Feb 14 2010, 11:30 AM
And why wouldn't we simply write видение in that case? In Latin that would become videnie, something many people seem to prefer over -je anyway.

Look: видение - видениа - видениу - видениом - видениу - видениами....
I don't think it is nice. And adding special declination rule for ie nouns is apparently not an option as well.
"I nent pochyby, e kdokoli chce a um, můe sobě stworiti jazyk krsn, bohat, libozwučn a wemoně dokonal: ale jazyk takow nebudě wce nrodnim, alebr osobnm jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
Frantiek Palack. Posudek o českm jazyku spisovnm, 1831.

[čćч]
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Jarvi
Feb 14 2010, 12:30 PM
Look: видение - видениа - видениу - видениом - видениу - видениами....
I don't think it is nice. And adding special declination rule for ie nouns is apparently not an option as well.

I agree. "Videnie" could of course be transliterated into Cyrillic as "videnje", but why would we? "Videnje" isn't such a bad solution at all, so I think we better stick to it!
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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iopq
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speaking of declension we kind of have the form videnijom unless people agree to the *o → *e / J_ rule
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
iopq
Feb 14 2010, 02:46 PM
speaking of declension we kind of have the form videnijom unless people agree to the *o → *e / J_ rule

Who says so? The grammar already says "videnjem" and it has been like that for quite a while now. Which version of the grammar are you referring to?
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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iopq
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IJzeren Jan
Feb 14 2010, 06:58 AM
iopq
Feb 14 2010, 02:46 PM
speaking of declension we kind of have the form videnijom unless people agree to the *o → *e / J_ rule

Who says so?

IJzeren Jan says so:

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Slovianski/inde...p?showtopic=138
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
iopq
Feb 15 2010, 12:49 AM
IJzeren Jan
Feb 14 2010, 06:58 AM
iopq
Feb 14 2010, 02:46 PM
speaking of declension we kind of have the form videnijom unless people agree to the *o → *e / J_ rule

Who says so?

IJzeren Jan says so:

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Slovianski/inde...p?showtopic=138

I didn't like the solution then and I don't particularly like it now either. But I'm not the owner of Slovianski and sometimes compromise is necessary.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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iopq
Administrator
I'm confused, what is the general rule then?

Do we have:
moje
videnjem
korabjem
svezsest'
noczevat'
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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