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Tvrdij jer (ъ) v SL jazyku.
Topic Started: Feb 9 2010, 08:59 PM (1,261 Views)
IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
iopq
Feb 13 2010, 07:33 AM
when Russians hear "czo" they start to think of something like this:

а чё иопт с поцанчиками бываит сидим водворе семки счёлкаим лох идёт мыему чу хавас мобилон c*ука он такой довай е*алом счёлкать аще коры мочим наш круг перевили на эсперанто чисто терь мусора не догоняют чо мы балакаем лол)))) ничо так с есперанто чётко идёт аще

I'm afraid I don't really understand what this is all about. My Russian ain't thát good! What's the point of "čo", here?
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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iopq
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IJzeren Jan
Feb 13 2010, 02:32 AM
iopq
Feb 13 2010, 07:33 AM
when Russians hear "czo" they start to think of something like this:

а чё иопт с поцанчиками бываит сидим водворе семки счёлкаим лох идёт мыему чу хавас мобилон c*ука он такой довай е*алом счёлкать аще коры мочим наш круг перевили на эсперанто чисто терь мусора не догоняют чо мы балакаем лол)))) ничо так с есперанто чётко идёт аще

I'm afraid I don't really understand what this is all about. My Russian ain't thát good! What's the point of "čo", here?

the point is that people who use czo are considered thugs and hooligans
while szto is the normal pronunciation
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
Oy, what a pity that I don't understand it!

In any case, if it's considered low register language, that basically proves only that it is understood. It's not really an argument against čo, in any case. Let's face it, the word kak means "shit" in a lot of languages!

Of course, the whole discussion is moot in so far that I'm sure što will be understood by Poles and Czechs as well, just like čo will be understood by East Slavs. I have a feeling that in the eyes of many Poles što is something very Russian (even though we all know it ain't) - which in the eyes of quite a few people makes it a language of thugs and hooligans anyway. ;)

Here's info for some other languages:
Upper Sorbian: što
Lower Sorbian: co
Kashubian: co
Rusyn (Lemkivskyj): što

All in all, I have to admit that the vote is really close and that you can't really say one option is better than the other. It's a case very similar to that of jak/kak: the vote is about 50/50, kak wins in terms of speakers and is more in line with kto, kogda etc., while jak has etymology on its side. I'm not a great fan of optional variants, especially when it comes to grammar words like this one, but we might make an exception here - just like we have both kak and jak. The disadvantage is that such a thing should also be reflected in variants like ničo/ništo, vsečo/vsešto etc., but nothing we can't handle, I guess.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

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steeven
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IJzeren Jan
Feb 13 2010, 02:08 PM

All in all, I have to admit that the vote is really close and that you can't really say one option is better than the other. ... I'm not a great fan of optional variants, especially when it comes to grammar words like this one, but we might make an exception here ....The disadvantage is that such a thing should also be reflected in variants like ničo/ništo, vsečo/vsešto etc., but nothing we can't handle, I guess.

So, there will be two options:

ČO and ŠTO with attendant modifications to related forms ? :ph43r:

Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
steeven
Feb 15 2010, 12:31 AM
So, there will be two options:

ČO and ŠTO with attendant modifications to related forms ?  :ph43r:

Unless someone objects, yes, that would be the logical outcome of this discussion.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

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gossips
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As another Russian in this thread I don't see any problem with čo like a middle solution.
Čo is widely used in spoken Russian like a short variant of spoken čego (which used in sense of what like a synonim of literary čto) and sounds bad only in short derivative ničo (in both spoken and literary Russian is used ničego when ničo use "thugs and hooligans" or grammar nazi like an ironic answer to those who use čo in their style of speaking :D )
Who said that Russian is a logical language? Noone I guess :lol:
Vila matka kuročka,
S nej mali kuriati:
"Ko-ko-ko, Ko-ko-ko,
Nesimati hoditi daleko!"
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
gossips
Feb 15 2010, 03:50 PM
As another Russian in this thread I don't see any problem with čo like a middle solution.
Čo is widely used in spoken Russian like a short variant of spoken čego (which used in sense of what like a synonim of literary čto) and sounds bad only in short derivative ničo (in both spoken and literary Russian is used ničego when ničo use "thugs and hooligans" or grammar nazi like an ironic answer to those who use čo in their style of speaking :D )
Who said that Russian is a logical language? Noone I guess :lol:

Yes, I agree that čo is still the better option. I'd believe that a person who has što but also čego, will intuitively see it as a combination of those two anyway.

But anyway, it's not a bad thing to offer the choice between both options. Just like in the case of jak and kak.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno to bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
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iopq
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gossips
Feb 15 2010, 07:50 AM
As another Russian in this thread I don't see any problem with čo like a middle solution.
Čo is widely used in spoken Russian like a short variant of spoken čego (which used in sense of what like a synonim of literary čto) and sounds bad only in short derivative ničo (in both spoken and literary Russian is used ničego when ničo use "thugs and hooligans" or grammar nazi like an ironic answer to those who use čo in their style of speaking :D )
Who said that Russian is a logical language? Noone I guess :lol:

Yeah, but when people use czo where czego cannot be used as in "Чё это такое?" it does sound unrefined
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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wannabeme
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Vojta
Feb 9 2010, 08:59 PM



Pozvolte mi se Vas pytati, zato jest naprimier v SL jazyku slovo "soglosno"? Originalna staroslovienska forma jest съгласнѡ.

Zato jeste izmenili prvi jer na O i druge A na O? Tut az vidu nekonzistenciu. Nai (CZ, PL) zapadni jazyki imajut E za jer na silnej pozicii, vyhodni jazyky imajut O za tutoj jer. (I juni ne imajut ničto).

This is not true. What are South-Languages?
1. Macedonian has long O and short E in hard position, both are lost in soft positon. согласен
2. Bulgarian has ъ and e in hard position. съгласен
3.Serbian and Croatian halfvocals became both a in hard position and lost in soft position. сагласан
4. Slovenian has also O and E. soglasen
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Vojta
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wannabeme
Feb 16 2010, 06:02 PM
This is not true. What are South-Languages?
1. Macedonian has long O and short E in hard position, both are lost in soft positon. согласен
2. Bulgarian has ъ and e in hard position. съгласен
3.Serbian and Croatian halfvocals became both a in hard position and lost in soft position. сагласан
4. Slovenian has also O and E. soglasen

Da, to jest pravda. Ne jest to tako proste, jako pisah.

izvinij
V.

Vojtěch Merunka
НОВОСЛОВЯНСКИ http://neoslavonic.org
СЛОВЯНСКИ СОВЕЗ http://slovane.org
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wannabeme
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Vojta
Feb 16 2010, 09:04 PM
wannabeme
Feb 16 2010, 06:02 PM
This is not true. What are South-Languages?
1. Macedonian has long O and short E in hard position, both are lost in soft positon. согласен
2. Bulgarian has ъ and e in hard position. съгласен
3.Serbian and Croatian halfvocals became both a in hard position and lost in soft position. сагласан
4. Slovenian has also O and E. soglasen

Da, to jest pravda. Ne jest to tako proste, jako pisah.

izvinij
V.

Паки добро, не можетъ се всекъгда знати все о всђхъ словенскђхъ iaзицђхъ.
Людъски естъ грђшити.
Твой ветъ добьр естъ и мьнђ разумливъ но не сви Словене разумђютъ аористъ и имперфектъ тако добро iaко Българи и Сьрби и не вси имаютъ ъ и ь на тастатурђ.
Велики поздравъ :)
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