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CZ/SZ/??
Topic Started: Sep 8 2008, 09:27 AM (3,192 Views)
wannabeme
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iopq
Sep 15 2008, 08:47 PM
Bartek-Pole
Sep 15 2008, 11:47 AM
IJzeren Jan
Sep 12 2008, 03:32 PM
Gabriel Svoboda
Sep 12 2008, 01:54 PM
Don't forget some Slavic nationalisms are based on hating anything Hungarian. :-)

I know. So, until the Hungarian-bashers come up with a better idea, let's use ZS. ;)




"hating"? Maybe in Slovakia, but surely not in Poland. We call Hungarians our true brothers like other Slavs.

It's true, Slovio forums are filled with people who bash Hungarians, Germans, etc. basically any nation that borders a Slavic one

And not only that, some here also dislike Russians. But what to do...
I am suposed not to like Turks, I dont realy like them because of some their caracteristics but i must say that turk languages are cool and harmonic.

After all we dont use sh, ch, zh because it reminds some of people here to russian.
But I dont see the problem here, only Poles write with cz, sz, zs so why shouldnt they continue to write like this and all others which dislike Hungarians can write like they used to... basta, ende, finito
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iopq
Administrator
ch is very misleading to west slavs where they use it to spell h
other than that, I would probably just say "screw it, make it look like transliterated russian"
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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wannabeme
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Actualy BCS, Slovenian and Macedonian are written on computer, in sms and so on only without haÄŤek.

Možeš li doći= mozes li doci.

We have never had problems to understand it this way.

In the last time bulgarian is written like Russian.
q=ja
4 or ch=ÄŤ
6 or sh=š
j=Ĺľ
y=j

Modern Serbian slang is since 3-4 years also written like ch, sh, zh=č,ž,š.
Exept in Vojvodina Serbs doesnt realy have any contacts with Hungarians. And I wouldnt say that we hate them.
Hate exists only between Serbs and Croats, Serbs and Muslims, Muslims and Croats, Slovenians and Croats, Macedoninas and Bulgarians, Macedonians and Greeks, Macedonians and Albanians, Albanians and Serbians. So we Balkanians all love and hate only us Balkanians. We dont want to desturb others hehe.
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IJzeren Jan
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Jan van Steenbergen
wannabeme
 
Actualy BCS, Slovenian and Macedonian are written on computer, in sms and so on only without haÄŤek.

Yes, but that is always in cases when people write to other people who speak the same language. Same thing happen in Polish (and probably in all other languages too): Chcę już iść -> Chce juz isc. But Slovianski can't do that, because it's not for communication between people who both know the language.

Quote:
 
Hate exists only between Serbs and Croats, Serbs and Muslims, Muslims and Croats, Slovenians and Croats, Macedoninas and Bulgarians, Macedonians and Greeks, Macedonians and Albanians, Albanians and Serbians. So we Balkanians all love and hate only us Balkanians. We dont want to desturb others hehe.

You forgot one: Greeks and Albanians! I'm not sure about Greeks and Bulgarians; their relationship seems to be neutral, a rarity in Balkan land! :D
Funny that nobody seems to have any relationship with the Romanians, BTW. Also, I'm curious if anybody has a special dislike for Montenegrins, or vice versa.
Človeku, ktoromu je trudno s soboju samim, verojetno tož bude trudno s vsim inim.

Slovianski - Словянски - Словјански
[čćч]
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Moraczewski
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Yes, in most cases mozes li doci works, but only for those who are familiar with latin. I find it rather hard to read Serbian or Croatian without haceks. I don't think this should be recommended solution.
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

[čćч]
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wannabeme
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IJzeren Jan
Mar 18 2010, 11:40 AM


Quote:
 
Hate exists only between Serbs and Croats, Serbs and Muslims, Muslims and Croats, Slovenians and Croats, Macedoninas and Bulgarians, Macedonians and Greeks, Macedonians and Albanians, Albanians and Serbians. So we Balkanians all love and hate only us Balkanians. We dont want to desturb others hehe.

You forgot one: Greeks and Albanians! I'm not sure about Greeks and Bulgarians; their relationship seems to be neutral, a rarity in Balkan land! :D
Funny that nobody seems to have any relationship with the Romanians, BTW. Also, I'm curious if anybody has a special dislike for Montenegrins, or vice versa.

Well About Montenegro: They see themselves like Serbs (exept one City and the Albanian part in east.) so they are also hated by Croats specialy.

Normaly Serbs should have good relationships with Romanians. Same music, same Religion, same mentality.
In Hercegovina Croats hate more Muslims then Serbs. But in Bosnia they rather keep together against Serbs.
Slovenians have normal relationships with Serbs and bad with Croats.
Macedonians have very good relationships with Serbians (although Serbians have very good relationships with Greeks) and bad with Albanians and Greeks and not the best relationships with Bulgarians.
In some parts Bulgarians dislike Serbs more then vice versa because they think that Macedonia should be part of Bulgaria and think Serbia has took it for itself.
Hmmm Albanians hate everyone exept USA and they are disliked by everyone around them.
Bulgarians are more totaly neutral with all. They like Russians and hate Turks.
The mane problem is that this people is so isolated from the whole world and they dont know what happens outside of Balkans.
And the borders are more like USA and EU like. But they make it only worse because they dont understand that on Balkans are rules different than in West Europe.
Uf its all messed up.
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Moraczewski
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As one Balkanian told me, "do never try to understand anything that's going on Balkans". So may be we'd better discuss orthography here? ;)
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

[čćч]
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steeven
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wannabeme
Mar 18 2010, 09:27 PM
Well About Montenegro: They see themselves like Serbs (exept one City and the Albanian part in east.) so they are also hated by Croats specialy.

Normaly Serbs should have good relationships with Romanians. Same music, same Religion, same mentality.
In Hercegovina Croats hate more Muslims then Serbs. But in Bosnia they rather keep together against Serbs.
Slovenians have normal relationships with Serbs and bad with Croats.
Macedonians have very good relationships with Serbians (although Serbians have very good relationships with Greeks) and bad with Albanians and Greeks and not the best relationships with Bulgarians.
In some parts Bulgarians dislike Serbs more then vice versa because they think that Macedonia should be part of Bulgaria and think Serbia has took it for itself.
Hmmm Albanians hate everyone exept USA and they are disliked by everyone around them.
Bulgarians are more totaly neutral with all. They like Russians and hate Turks.
The mane problem is that this people is so isolated from the whole world and they dont know what happens outside of Balkans.
And the borders are more like USA and EU like. But they make it only worse because they dont understand that on Balkans are rules different than in West Europe.
Uf its all messed up.

I know this is not a "blog" space.
But it would seem to me that if I had a movie script to write about the Balkans it would go like this:
1. All current languages must terminate.
2. New language assigned to people is "Slovianski"
3. All current religions must terminate.
4. New religion to be STAR WARS religion:

Pust Sila Bude S Tobem!
Niek Sila Bude S Tobem!

May "The Force" Be With You!

"Dark Side" ~ Temnja Strana
"Light Side" ~ Jasnja Strana

Novij Prorok = Lukaš Nebohoditel
Novij Spasitel = Obi-Uan

ITD.......

:D
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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Gabriel Svoboda

Quote:
 
CZ/SZ/ZS = sort of consistent and at least attested in Hungarian.


Sz in Hungarian is attested to mean /s/. Zs only makes sense as long as s means /š/, just like in Hungarian: zs = /zš/ --> assimilation --> /ž/. That's why I still like cz/sz/zz, at least it is consistent.
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Gabriel Svoboda

Again in Unicode:

Quote:
 
CZ/SZ/ZS = sort of consistent and at least attested in Hungarian.


Sz in Hungarian is attested to mean /s/. Zs only makes sense as long as s means /š/, just like in Hungarian: zs = /zš/ --> assimilation --> /ž/. That's why I still like cz/sz/zz, at least it is consistent.
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Moraczewski
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Gabriel Svoboda
Apr 7 2010, 06:39 PM
Quote:
 
CZ/SZ/ZS = sort of consistent and at least attested in Hungarian.


Sz in Hungarian is attested to mean /s/. Zs only makes sense as long as s means /š/, just like in Hungarian: zs = /zš/ --> assimilation --> /ž/. That's why I still like cz/sz/zz, at least it is consistent.

But those who are not familiar with Hungarian, aren't aware of that. But it looks like zs works somehow even for them.
"I nenít pochyby, že kdokoli chce a umí, může sobě stworiti jazyk krásný, bohatý, libozwučný a wšemožně dokonalý: ale jazyk takowý nebudě wíce národnim, alebrž osobním jazykem toho kdo jej sobě udělal".
František Palacký. Posudek o českém jazyku spisovném, 1831.

[čćч]
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'''
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gabriel, cz isnt attested in hungarian at all I think the original post meant

"CZ/SZ/ZS = sort of consistent and at least [zs] attested in Hungarian."
20/♂/hetero/atheist/★☭
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iopq
Administrator
Gabriel Svoboda
Apr 7 2010, 10:39 AM
Quote:
 
CZ/SZ/ZS = sort of consistent and at least attested in Hungarian.


Sz in Hungarian is attested to mean /s/. Zs only makes sense as long as s means /ďż˝/, just like in Hungarian: zs = /zďż˝/ --> assimilation --> /ďż˝/. That's why I still like cz/sz/zz, at least it is consistent.

Ukrainian has закавказзя so a Ukrainian speaker would expect the z doubling as something natural in a Slavic language

other Slavic languages also have a whole lot of words like роз + з_ where the doubling occurs on a morpheme boundary

ok let's say we say "fuck ukrainian they mostly know russian anyway, and we spell bezzabotno as bez-zabotno" we still have to deal with ukrainian place names like Zaporizhzhya which in the z convention becomes Zaporizzzza... here I would even prefer the English-style transcription

I'm pretty sure I posted this about 2 years ago on the Slovio forum as well :)
it's true that Hungarian sz doesn't mean the same thing, but I like zs because it's easy to type and read

of course, Slovianski doesn't specify an official ascii orthography (unless we want to agree on one thing)
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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steeven
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"X"

I will continue to use the letter "X", IF I am not using a "hacek" letter.
Originally, I had great issue with this letter.
But later, I recognised that because I use it only on the occasions either (1) when I am not at my own keyboard, or (2) when I am writing in a website that does not support haceki, it is rare that I will use the "x" alternative form.
For best clarity, it works for me (altho "sz" is much better than "zz" IMHO).
:o

Запоріжжя
Zaporizxzxja
Zaporizzzzja
Zaporiszszja
Zaporizzja

PS: Isn't the Hungarian "sz" pronounced as a clean "s" sound? (not as the hacek "s") :blink:
Please consider 3 levels of "tests" for word formulation:

1. Logical, Analytical or Commonly Slavic
2. That it "makes sense" - to the people (not just the creators) - "will the people both accept & use it?"

3. Avoid "conflicts"
www.MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI.com - Grammar
www.INTERSLAVIC.info - Lexicon
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'''
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look like 4 posts up, that's what we were just discussing
20/♂/hetero/atheist/★☭
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