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Orthographic nature of the hard l and soft l
Topic Started: Nov 28 2007, 04:27 PM (508 Views)
iopq
Administrator
I think that it might be worth noting that in Slavic languages l is sometimes not fully palatalized, but rather has a velarized-unvelarized distinction like in Polish.

I also researched this issue, here is an interesting quote about Russian:

Quote:
 
A tendency for the 'plain' consonants of Russian to be velarized has often been noted (Trubetzkoy
1969, Reformatskii 1958, Fant 1960, Öhman 1966, Purcell 1979, Lyovin 1997:64, many others),
though the amount of velarization, and the consonants affected by it, are matters of disagreement.
(See Evans-Romaine 1998 for a thorough overview of this question and references.) I argue
below that the role of velarization is actually underestimated in phonological accounts of Russian,
a fact that is unfortunate, since its presence bears in an important way both on phonological
theory and on Russian phonology.
Considering the broader theory first, the occurrence of velarized segments in languages
having contrastive palatalization points up a markedness paradox. Taking the specific example
8
shown in (10)a, there are languages with a contrast among plain, palatalized and velarized laterals,
including Bernera Scots Gaelic, at least one dialect of Irish (see Ladefoged and Ladefoged 1997
on both of these), and Marshallese (Bender 1969, Choi 1992, 1995). There are languages
contrasting palatalized and velarized laterals, including Irish and Russian ( is the segment that is
most uncontroversially velarized in Russian). Finally, there are languages having just one
contrastive lateral. Though the latter is counted as 'plain' in (10)a, there can of course be variation
in a sole lateral phoneme's realization.7 Since a plain lateral, however, is the most widespread kind
across languages, markedness theories single it out as the best. It is therefore a surprise, as Lyovin
(1997) notes, that Russian has no plain lateral, and the same can be said of Irish.
(10) a. l' vs. l vs. ɫ Bernera Scots Gaelic
l' vs. ɫ Russian, most Irish dialects
l Many languages
b. i vs. ɨ vs. u Guaraní
i vs. u Many languages
ɨ Kabardian


the article claims that this contrast is also apparent in other consonants, but that's beside the point

the reason for changing l - l' to l - ł is to spell loans as plain l so people won't complain (since no Latin script spells loans with soft l, not with lj or Slovak l')
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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Gabriel Svoboda

It looks like a good idea. Only ASCII bothers me - how to spell the current telohronitel'? Tel"ohronitel? (The " is used for Cyrillic hard sign in scientific transliteration.) Tewohronitel? (Looks like IPA representation of a would-be-Polish pronunciation.) Or just keep telohronitel' (with "l" having teo different tasks depending on whether it is used in normal Latin or in ASCII)?
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Gabriel Svoboda

I have thought about it and I decided it is not a good idea. In the syllables "le" and "li", neither softening nor hardening should be marked, the default "l" should be used here. But the default "l" would probably be the softer one in Latin, but the harder one in Cyrillic. Therefore we would not have 1:1 transliteration.
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iopq
Administrator
Yes, I think you're right.

But I'm thinking of posting up "naturalistic" Cyrillic/Latin and having people discuss it

Of course, automatic transliteration will be possible, but it won't be 1-to-1

features of the Cyrillic version:
я, ю, йо/ьо for iotation before vowels
initial e in words like
ле, ли
ла, лу, ло
й

есть
телохронитель
мой

features of the Latin version:
'a, 'u, 'o for softening before vowels
initial je in words like
le, li
ła, łu, ło
j

jest'
tełohronitel
moj

But it's not really something I see implementing, just an interesting idea
Bo v c'omu žytti pomiž baletom i svobodoju zavždy potribno vybyraty svobodu, navit' jakščo ce čehoslovac'kyj general.
Sergij Žadan "Anarchy in the Ukr"
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