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'70 Mustang Coupe Hobby Stock/Sportsman; 2015 DIRT TRACK SNRA Entry
Topic Started: Jul 4 2017, 02:26 PM (244 Views)
Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
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Going to start with a '69 Mustang Coupe for the body since resin is o.k with in the rules. A wedge head 427 F.E power plant and Ford intermediate frame from a Jo-Han 1972 Ford Torino Stock Car kit which will serve as the primary donor kit base. Also from the primary donor kit will come the front suspension pieces,radiator,engine oil cooler,interior pieces, portions of the roll cage and 9" rear end.
The stock Ford intermediate frame will be shortened by removing the stock rear frame section so that the wheelbase can be shortened to work with the Mustang body. A mid to late 70's style of late model rear frame section will replace the stock piece.
I will be building this in the spirit of the local Hobby Stock / Late Model rules from 1977-1978
ON THE WORK BENCH....
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Brian Conn
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Finished the frame for the Mustang.....shortened Ford intermediate frame from the Jo-Han '72 Torino stock car kit and added a late 70's Howe copy leaf spring rear frame section.
Just like the Howe frames of that period, this one also has the rear frame section off set.
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ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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Unfortunately, the Jo-Han '72 Torino Stock Car main cage simply would not fit being too wide for the '70 Mustang, also I really want a look that that doesn't scream out 1960's Holman/Moody..also the separate stress frame for the fire wall forward area didn't do it for me.

I figured with the time it would have took to fit the Torino main cage and then tying into the separate stress frame for the Mustang, I would be ahead time wise to build what I am after on the jig.

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Not yet finished, but everything body wise fits perfect right off of the jig....

ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
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Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
Finished the roll cage for the Mustang....this style of cage is from the late '70's........shortened Ford intermediate frame ( Gray) 108" w/b (1:25 scale) with Howe copy late model rear frame section.

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Went with this style of door bars on the Right side so that the 180 degree exhaust can exit thru the lower, rear portion of the door and yet still be with in the rules
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
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Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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I must confess that I had some help with that cage.........
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This is a Howe draft dated 10-27-77. It started out originally in 1/8th scale. The draft that I work with has been reproduced in 1:25 scale. This one is for the leaf spring rear set up...I also have one, that is the same, except it is for the coil spring rear set up. If anyone is interested, I can mail you free of charge, a copy of either the leaf or coil spring draft or both in 1:25 scale.
I also have a jig that is based off of this draft that I built as well that I use with the various Ford full frames from 1955 up thru the early 1990's.

I gave a nod to the Chrysler Kit Car with the diagonal bar that runs from the upper Right portion of the main cage down thru to the Left rear frame rail just above where the rear axle will be.

The short diagonal bars between the front hoop and Ford intermediate frame located between the front cross member and engine cross member is how we did it on the real thing, being the Ford frame, back in the day.
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
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Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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QUOTE (Bernard Kron @ Jan 11 2015, 09:29 PM)
Outstanding!

Quick, somebody point me to the rule book so I can understand why they're built this way. Obviously some of the vestigial parts, like the front chassis portion and the rear bodywork exist for historical reasons, to justify the term Modified. Otherwise the elegant engineering that went into this chassis would have been extended to the frame surrounding the motor and cab.

I've been to howeracing.com and fivestarbodies.com and I'm looking around. Howe is very impressive even 40+ years on. Are they still a force in this type of racing? Are they what I see on television coverage under those vaguely Detroit-ish looking bodies?

Anyway, can't wait to see the suspension and motor take shape, not mention the driver's compartment...


I'll try and elaborate on your questions........any of you guys who were on the scene back in the mid-late 70's chime in as I can only offer what I was exposed to as far as the midwestern dirt scene was concerned.

I dig out my trusty rules from 1977 for the local 1/2 mile dirt track.........

The rule books were a whole lot less then than what they are now. Back then , the cage/chassis rules, where applicable, were based off the Chevy Camaro..... as an example the minimum wheel base was 108" ...same as the Camaro.

Minimum requirement for the cage was a 6 point cage ...3 door bars on the driver side...horizontal bar under the dash from one side to the other. The r oll cage was constructed with 1 3/8 " Outside Diameter and a 090 wall thickness tubing or pipe.

Safety then ,as it is now, was paramount....the front ends must be correctly beefed up for safety...truck hub and spindle or equivalent required on Right front.

Engines were allowed a 2" set back....rear sump Chevy engines had it easy......for Fords you had to scrounge around and find a rear sump pick up and pan out of Ford pick up since the car offerings were front sump. With Fords rear steering set up, heavy modifications to the pan and oiling system was a must. Although this is a Ford issue, you still had to deal with it...whether you had a manufactured cage/chassis or a home made piece.

So they were built this way to accommodate the ever popular Chevy Camaros and to be able to hold up to the rigors of weekly racing for as many seasons as possible.

The front chassis portion remained pretty much the same for 20+ years....nothing special there...something to mount a radiator ,shocks and control arms to with the front hoop basically reducing flex in the frame forward of the fire wall....it does not do a great job of protecting things...like radiators and shocks.

The cages and chassis back then that were manufactured where not designed by a group of engineers ,but rather by racers them selves...Ed Howe , Ed Sanger, C.J Rayburn, Clayton Peterson are just a few that come to mind....they knew what worked and what wouldn't.

The cockpit is the single most important area of a cage/chassis...period....injured or dead drivers don't win races and no tech would pass a death trap of a cage...thus the triangulation and bars supporting the main 4 point cage have to be an integral part of the cage and chassis.

Howe Racing Ent. main focus these days is far from where it was 30 - 40 years ago. Last I checked in , Howe Racing Ent. was big into the road course racing scene...still doing the chassis thing, only for a different type of racing.

Five Star is still cranking out bodies...dirt and asphalt.

The suspension on this car is going to be basic since I am building it to the local rules from here in 1978 for the Hobby Stock class...the class which was just below the Late Models...lower engine claim amount...cast iron intake...no quick change rear ends. The front 2/3 rds of the frame is the same as you would have found under a '72 -'76 Ford Torino SO the suspension will be the best of Dearborn's offerings of the time. The rear suspension will be Chrysler type leaf springs...might do a coil over shock or dampener shock...haven't made my mind up yet.

Engine will be a wedge head Ford 427 F.E ...nothing too fancy...typical engine style of the time.


ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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Posted: Jan 12 2015, 11:43 PM

I can recall seeing my first manufactured frame...not from an actual production automobile ...in 1979ish....I do believe it was a Howe unit. I have not seen any Late Model rules from back then that dictated that any part of the frame had to be the same as the body. You could, in theory, have mounted any body in the 108" wheel base range to that Howe chassis in the draft with it's Camaro front stub and been perfectly legal. Depending on which engine you ran, you might have to notch the Camaro engine cross member ....such as in the case with the Ford Cleveland or Windsor mechanical fuel pump being a clearance issue as an example.
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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Posted: Feb 16 2015, 09:26 PM

Seems I have been busy with everything but this.....did manage to get some time in the hobby room.....

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Finished the interior sheet metal work.....I despise doing interiors...might change my mind and go with a flat Black verses this gloss Black.
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Bent up some 180 degree headers for the 427 out of solder.

Decided to go with the venerable Chrysler style rear leaf spring set up as I have used before with these era of builds, and besides it's a perfect fit for this 108" w/b chassis...no coil over shock this time...simple axle dampener over the center section of a Ford 9" leaning toward ordering some brake drums from Tom's speed shop to complete the rear end since I don't recall the Hobby Stock class having disk brake rears 37-38 years ago as this car is being built to represent.....not to mention the SNRA rules require brakes on all 4 corners ( but says absolutely nothing about being able to shut off the Right front)

Front suspension will be the stock Ford lower control arms and steering for the Ford Intermediate frame. Will be scratch building spindles(adjustable) and tubular upper control arms...will also be installing weight jacks....will scrounge up some disk brakes to keep it legal.
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
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Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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Posted: Feb 21 2015, 02:21 PM

QUOTE (Lefturns75 @ Feb 16 2015, 11:24 PM)
.............. Like you, I sorta dread the interior sheet metal. I find that file card works best for me. It takes paint pretty well also. We always used disc brakes on all fours if at all possible........


Thanks for stopping by and taking a look. .z.
..What I used for the interior is slightly thinner than card stock...don't know what it is but it works...used a brush and brushed on a mixture of Elmers glue and a small amount of water to cover the gaps and seams....primed with Model Master Gray primer and shot it with Krylon Fusion Black gloss.
Found some wheel backs with disk brakes molded into them for the front.
I can recall seeing Late Models from this era having disk on all 4 corners w/ a quick change , but didn't start to see that with the lower classes until a few years later.....could have been a compatibility issue with the 3/4 ton truck rear ends (Dana 60) that where so popular then.....which I think I will use for this build verses a Ford 9"




ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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......I keep plugging away and making some progress.....
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The 3/4 ton truck rear ends (Dana 60's) where quite popular during this time...the big 3 (Ford, Dodge, G.M) all used them , so they where quite plentiful in the salvage yards. I picked up this one from the LHS salvage bin of parts. I had to do a few things to it to make it race ready....I removed aprox. 4 mm. from the front of each leaf spring to make it a Chrysler style muti leaf spring. I removed the leaf springs from the axle and moved them inboard and splayed or toed the front portion in fallowing a Chrysler oval track set up....I figured if I am going to be using a Chrysler style multi leaf spring set up I might as well go all the way and set it up right.
The brake drums are from our own Tom's Speed Shop. Going to go with a simple shock set up... Right shock just ahead of the axle, Left shock just behind the axle.
I went with a Dana 60 because I am building the car in the spirit of the local Hobby Stock rules from 37-38 years ago...... quick changes where not allowed and you just did not see many Ford 9" in use....not as many as today.
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Wedge head 427 F.E Ford.... Scratch built 180' headers out of solder, Moroso 8 qt. oil pan,remote oil filter lines... cast Moroso air cleaner cover w/ mud shield...aftermarket Holley valve covers ,modified from a set for a 289-351 Windsor. Pre wired distributor cap from Mogan Automotive Detail. Pro Tech open element oil breathers from Teds modeling market place.
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Its starting to come together..finally...still have some areas of body work to deal with.....sand prime, sand, prime repeat a million times until satisfied. mm1
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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QUOTE (Lefturns75 @ Mar 21 2015, 08:25 PM)
............. I am still thrashing on the 3200# Chevelle Panzer.

I realized a few days ago that if this was the real deal, it would be a tank, as well....factory sheet metal, 2/3rds of the frame is a Ford intermediate frame, 3/4 ton truck rear end w/ drum brakes, 427 Ford power plant w/ cast iron intake and 180' headers/exhaust....should not have any issues with making the scales or lasting thru out an endurance race.




QUOTE (Lefturns75 @ Mar 21 2015, 08:25 PM)
It will have the "used" look when finished, not super straight new.

.....makes sense to me since these cars where "used" before being pressed into racing service...I don't recall these era of cars ever looking pristine new, even when they where displayed at the local mall before racing season commenced.....it's not that I don't care or take pride in the cars appearance, I just know from experience what they really looked like.




QUOTE (Lefturns75 @ Mar 21 2015, 08:25 PM)
Why is it that when you build something for a set finish date nothing ever goes right??? I think I have had to do everything at least three times to get parts on. Hope you are having better luck than I am!!

....The stuff that goes on behind the scenes that does not get mentioned Colere_26.gif ....No.. I am NOT having any better luck than you....even measuring things 2 - 3 times with a digital caliper has lent itself to problems...example: realized that the rear axle was not squarely aligned with the leaf springs last night...result: remove a leaf spring and realign the rear end set up...again WHICH...resulted in the wheelbase being off... WHICH.. resulted in redoing 3 of the 4 wheel well openings on the body...about 5 hr's of extra work for a simple mistake......been some other minor issues with the cage that did not show up until a couple of days ago...still have not figured that one out...07744152.gif thinking.gif




QUOTE (Dr Kerry @ Mar 22 2015, 09:02 AM)
Great work Brian, really liking the work you did on the cage in it!!!!

THANKS!! I have a love/hate relationship with the cage..love the way it went together in the beginning, hate the little gremlins that have popped up in the last few days with it....like the halo that was a perfect fit to the roof before that had to have a Dremel saw taken to it today.....I did the cuts in the area where the r oll cage padding will be....hopefully that will cover up the hack job that I had to do to get it set straight again....this is another example of luck..or the lack of it.

ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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Posted: Mar 25 2015, 10:13 PM

QUOTE (Lefturns75 @ Mar 22 2015, 03:33 PM)
LOL! Brian, I was told once that Larry used to finish a car and then back into it a few times with the wrecker. He then repaired it the way HE wanted it. Now thats what I call "bending the rules". I think the man was a master at that. If you had a "Grey" area in the rule book, Larry would come along and take home your money. I don't know how many times I saw the man clean house at our local track and then leave the trophy in his pit area when he left. He just wanted the checks and usually got em.




...Absolutely true Larry Phillips story.......

Back in the early 60's my wife Amy lived a couple doors South of Larry on Warren St. in Springfield, Mo. Back in those days he did his wrenching on the car...usually out in the front yard. In her neighborhood there was a bunch of kids with usually 4 or 5 hanging out around Larry's watching the goings on. As Amy tells the story, Larry encouraged the kids to "bounce" on the stock car and have fun...which she did...after a while of bouncing he would have the kids stop and him and present crew members would take tools and do things to the car according to Amy. My best guess this day is that he was seeing if he had enough tire clearance and suspension travel by having the kids play bouncy car....she was a part of this activity for 2 or 3 years.
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
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Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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FOR THE 2018 RACING SEASON
1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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...Had Amy go thru some pictures...here are the "bouncy cars"
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...She is pretty sure this is first bouncy car....the Red # 75 at the front of the line up.
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another bouncy car..
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and another...
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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2 Corinthians 5:17
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Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
Posted ImageHosted on Fotki
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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Brian Conn
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You kind of snuck in while I was moving this into the right section and switching it over to Fotki...

I am kind of on the fence with the front sway bar...I built this car to be finished enough(pictures) for the 2015 SNRA races but did not completely finish it. I guess I have forgot when I quit seeing front sway bars on dirt cars...I know that they where around in the late 70's and early '80's on the dirt cars , so to keep it period correct I suppose I should.
Will get this one completely finished some day.
ON THE WORK BENCH....
Starsky & Hutch Ford Gran Torino (Season 2)
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1978 Mustang II Hatchback dirt Late Model

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