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| Auto Makers Emergency Bailout; Chrysler, GM, and Ford | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 11 2008, 06:26 AM (166 Views) | |
| ParrrrTay | Dec 11 2008, 06:26 AM Post #1 |
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...just a girl in the world.
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In the news... The House passed a $14 billion rescue package for the auto makers, but the emergency bailout is still in jeopardy from Republicans who were setting out roadblocks in the Senate. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/10/...tr=HOME_4659844 I'm still uncertain on how I feel about all of this. On one hand it's like tossing a pebble in the pond, the ripple effect could be devastating. All the suppliers that depend on them (fabric, steel, plastic, etc.) could end up folding and that freaks me out. Yet on the other hand I feel all of them stuck their heads in the sand and don't deserve our tax money to correct their stupidity. What do all you wonderful people in NS Canada think? |
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The Pubs of Parkplace Delegate, Canada Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be ~P.FLOYD Sail on my friend... Holding Shelter Twirl Hippy Chick twirl | |
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| Pez201 | Dec 11 2008, 08:03 AM Post #2 |
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New and improved
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Over here in little ol' rural Australia, the BIGGEST symbol of the world economy would be the U.S. auto companies, due to their size and how they're in the public eye (i.e. people who drive Fords for life, and so on). So to see them cap in hand asking for money is... odd. But I don't know enough about the situation to say more than that, really. |
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"I never said i was the first person..yesh. I admit Pez was the first one to throw a goat" - Fin Leader of the Canadian Fat Whale Party from 21/5/08 - 29/8/09 and from 1/8/09 when his 48 hour brain fuzz cleared up.
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| Kyleslavia | Dec 11 2008, 08:34 AM Post #3 |
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Stanley Cup Champ
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I'm personally afraid that other companies from different industries will try to line up on Capitol Hill and try to get a bailout of their own. |
| Come and visit Kylesburg City, please clicky! | |
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| New Eunomia | Dec 11 2008, 08:53 AM Post #4 |
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Formerly known as Canada6
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That the suits in charge don't deserve tax payer's money to correct their stupidity, is something I am definitely in agreement with. The argument can also be made though, that auto-related industries that rely on the big three, don't deserve to sink along with them. I'm a fan of unfettered markets, but I'm also sensitive to the results they produce. When smaller companies struggle, the solution is for bigger companies to buy them up, or to simply go out of business for producing products nobody wants. No fuss, no muss. But when giant sized corporations like GM go down, only a government has the size to step in. I think a reasonable solution would be one that limits the overall harm - bailing out the company, while installing new management so that their irresponsibility isn't rewarded. That doesn't seem to be on the agenda. Their resignation should have been article one, on whatever bill is being passed. Another problem is that this solution, as part of a larger ongoing bailout strategy, further entangles the US treasury into foreign debt. Mostly to the Chinese. By financing their public debt, this of course means that China's role as a stakeholder in the US economy increases, in the same way that the US did during Europe's post-WWII reconstruction. |
| "I said «merde» and the Queen laughed" - Jean Chrétien reacting to a faulty pen given to him by Pierre Trudeau on the signing of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, in April 1982. | |
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| Niongor | Dec 11 2008, 09:46 AM Post #5 |
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Giver of the *Hi-5*
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I have a few hang ups on this. Firstly, I have a horrible feeling that the auto industries will take the tax payers money and make the same stupid mistakes they've been making for the last 25 years. Secondly, is this bailout going to simply prolong the inevitable? Rover in the UK, not the biggest car company in the world, but in exactly the same circumstances as the big 3, got a bailout from the British government only to collapse 2 years later. Lastly, if the automakers get a bailout, who else is going to want one? |
"There is no next time: it's now or never!"
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| North Star State | Dec 11 2008, 01:19 PM Post #6 |
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Enforcer
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I think its good the executives agreed to work for $1 a year, but I don't think they will. They're gonna muck it up and in two years time they'll be back asking for money only this time Congress will say no way and 5 million Americans will lose their jobs. |
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| jDELIGHT | Dec 11 2008, 02:37 PM Post #7 |
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Fun is the only noise you should hear
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Those bastards. None of them has the balls to actually make their businesses profitable and competitive in a world market. The entire current situation is built on the premise that they can't do their jobs. They know they have us in a corner. The banks already showed us what would happen if we give this bunch money. My feeling is very strongly NO. Even Lee Iacocca, who actually DID pay back his loan in the early 80s agrees. (sorry michigan, but these are the people who put you where you are, and the industry has to shift or die anyway). |
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A 21-Skwerl Salute for the Dizzy Twirling Hippy Chick! "Your only true land based hope are aerodynamically correct goats." JT | |
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| ParrrrTay | Dec 11 2008, 07:14 PM Post #8 |
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...just a girl in the world.
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First of all I see most of you called it a bailout. It's actually a loan, although a loan that can never be paid back is a bailout as far as I'm concerned. A bailout is exactly what I think it would be if the same management is allowed to exist. I feel the Ford is actually holding it's own and would only request a loan if the economy takes a deeper downward spiral. I do however believe if this happens to Ford it would only be a 'loan' as they already have been moving forward with the times (not afraid to change to compete) which would more than likely enable them to pay the loan back. So why is GM and Chrysler so bad off? One word...MANAGEMENT! I get the feeling that they thought 'It always worked in the past and it will always work in the future'. Fear of change is slowly killing them. I completely blame the people running the companies. I have a stinking feeling that this money (if loaned) will just allow them the comfort of making the same mistakes, while expecting different results, and will collapse in the end. (bailout failure) And JD it's not just Michigan, if Chrysler and GM fail, then suppliers from everywhere (California, Mexico, etc.) will more than likely go belly up. Which would also be the fault of the suppliers management. Why would anyone put all their eggs in one basket? So maybe the do deserve to sink with them.
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The Pubs of Parkplace Delegate, Canada Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be ~P.FLOYD Sail on my friend... Holding Shelter Twirl Hippy Chick twirl | |
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| ParrrrTay | Dec 12 2008, 06:00 AM Post #9 |
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...just a girl in the world.
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...and the fat lady sings! |
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The Pubs of Parkplace Delegate, Canada Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be ~P.FLOYD Sail on my friend... Holding Shelter Twirl Hippy Chick twirl | |
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| Lorelai County | Dec 12 2008, 07:16 AM Post #10 |
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Stanley Cup Champ
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Well on one hand it doesn’t make sense to support an unprofitable sector. At the other hand it’s not fair to let employees suffer for the incompetence of the higher management. How would we Canadians solve that dilemma? Let’s hear your thoughts… **** From the U.S. government view and theoretically therefore from public/the common U.S. citizens view it isn't about saving unprofitable companies (or high management seats), it's about saving jobs. If the government is considering to support the economy with $14 billions, it doesn’t have to be necessary the car industry. E.g. they could support middle-/small-sized companies" or startups. (In Switzerland those “KMU” are actually the biggest employer of the economy). The beneficiary of this economic assistance should preferably bring certain requirements with them… - …operate in a developing market with a high need of new employees for the future. - …operate competitive in long term regarding the domestic and foreign competitors. - …preferably generating jobs requiring none or only few retraining of former employees of the dying industry. (If necessary reeducation can be paid by economic assistance) - …preferably generate jobs in the areas they have been lost. - …having a competent management and a business strategy able to juggle recession and react flexible to shifts of the market. - …having an array of products that do not depend on unreliable or non-sustainable resources regarding the short term situation in the U.S. economic area. I think a good start for planning an economic assistance might be to establish some higher goals: - Generate jobs for as much people as possible (not necessarily high paid but it should enable a worker to support the average U.S. family without the need of governmental welfare) - Prevent the loss of jobs of the existing economy (at the current situation of the banking sector other companies might also be in trouble, because they are not able to get new loans or cover old loans in short term) - Prevent areas from generating slums - Decentralize the dependency of workplaces on single companies or sectors - Decentralize the economic (political) power from single companies Just some thought… What would you do? |
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| Niongor | Dec 12 2008, 07:17 AM Post #11 |
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Giver of the *Hi-5*
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Where the hell were the 13 other senators?
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"There is no next time: it's now or never!"
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| Omnivorous | Dec 12 2008, 11:21 AM Post #12 |
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The AntiEss
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On their yachts. |
# of points: -2Department of Immigration Member
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| jDELIGHT | Dec 12 2008, 12:26 PM Post #13 |
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Fun is the only noise you should hear
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Sorry, I was jumping back and forth between two discussions on this issue and got confused! Yes, Michigan isn't the only place affected, but I always hear people talk about the awful conditions in Michigan because of the auto industry. I know a lot of folks want to blame labor unions and the feds for not propping up the industry (all aspects of it) *more.* I hear a lot of talk about the auto industry, but not a lot of talk about any other industries in Michigan. Is that all it has for its economic base? Michigan seems to only have one basket. Move to Canada?
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A 21-Skwerl Salute for the Dizzy Twirling Hippy Chick! "Your only true land based hope are aerodynamically correct goats." JT | |
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| ParrrrTay | Dec 12 2008, 04:18 PM Post #14 |
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...just a girl in the world.
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Not sure if that would solve my problem since Michigan is run by a Governor that was born in Canada. If I could afford it I would move my sorry ass right out of Michigan. The whole world moved forward and Michigan kept banking on the auto industry. Companies based in Michigan |
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The Pubs of Parkplace Delegate, Canada Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be ~P.FLOYD Sail on my friend... Holding Shelter Twirl Hippy Chick twirl | |
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| Kyleslavia | Dec 12 2008, 04:18 PM Post #15 |
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Stanley Cup Champ
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They may have abstained. Anyway, I can't believe that the Republicans rejected the bailout because the UAW refused to make concessions. Excuse me, but the employees of these companies shouldn't be forced to have their wages cut because upper management made poor choices. On the other hand, denying the automotive industry this bailout hopefully closed the floodgates. I hope this sends a clear message that companies won't be able to just waltz up to Capitol Hill and ask for taxpayer dollars when they find themselves in a bad situation. |
| Come and visit Kylesburg City, please clicky! | |
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| ParrrrTay | Dec 12 2008, 04:22 PM Post #16 |
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...just a girl in the world.
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Population of United States: 301,139,947. They could of gave each one of us a nice sum instead of giving the banks $700,000,000. |
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The Pubs of Parkplace Delegate, Canada Long you live and high you fly And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry And all you touch and all you see Is all your life will ever be ~P.FLOYD Sail on my friend... Holding Shelter Twirl Hippy Chick twirl | |
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| Omnivorous | Dec 12 2008, 06:29 PM Post #17 |
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The AntiEss
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$2.32?
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# of points: -2Department of Immigration Member
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| Kyleslavia | Dec 12 2008, 07:30 PM Post #18 |
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Stanley Cup Champ
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Forgot a few zeros there Shay. :lol: |
| Come and visit Kylesburg City, please clicky! | |
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| Almonaster | Dec 12 2008, 08:37 PM Post #19 |
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Homophonophile
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Another option? |
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You use a mirror to see your face. You use works of art to see your soul. ~ G. B. Shaw Visit Al's FractAl Gallery I'm in ur detailz likin' ur sinz.
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| Almonaster | Dec 14 2008, 07:05 PM Post #20 |
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Homophonophile
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Visualising the bailouts. This is not just the automakers. The bailout figure used here appears to be the total across several bailouts, including the Fannie/Freddie takeover earlier. Other sources have quoted anything between $3 Trillion and $7 Trillion - take your pick! |
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You use a mirror to see your face. You use works of art to see your soul. ~ G. B. Shaw Visit Al's FractAl Gallery I'm in ur detailz likin' ur sinz.
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7:25 PM Jul 10