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The UK? What's in a name?
Topic Started: Jul 26 2008, 01:48 AM (145 Views)
Pez201
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Something I've always wondered... from a political viewpoint, what is the significance of the United Kingdom? I realise it's made up of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, and that's where I get confused.

Is the UK one country, or four countries? If Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own sporting teams, does this make them seperate nations? Or are Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland autonomous regions? Or something else altogether? :wacko:

Any answers from someone who knows would be much appreciated. :)

EDIT: of course, if more than one person knows, that's fine as well. :P
"I never said i was the first person..yesh. I admit Pez was the first one to throw a goat" - Fin
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Niongor
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The United Kingdom of Great Britain (England, Scotland & Wales) and Northern Ireland is one country, but much like how Australia devolves into states, the United Kingdom is made up of four constituent countries. These places used to be independent nations but on 1 May 1707 the Parliament of England (who were also legislating on behalf of Wales) and the Parliament of Scotland agreed to merge into a single kingdom, the United Kingdom of Great Britain.

This happened because since 1603, and the death of Elizabeth I of England, the two nations had shared a monarchy under the Scottish-French House of Stewart.

In 1801 Ireland became part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. In 1921 Ireland was partitioned with Northern Ireland becoming a part of the UK, with it's own legisaltive assembly. The new United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as we know it today, was born here.

In 1998 there were referenda held in Scotland and Wales over the idea of creating a Scottish Parliament and a Welsh Assembly. The referenda were approved and since 1999 both those home nations have had their own legislative bodies. However, that's left England unequal in the Union.

NI, Scotland and Wales all have legislative bodies that deal only with matters involving those particular nations, but England's affairs are decided by the British parliament, meaning Scots and the Welsh can vote on English issues, but the English cannot vote on Scottish, Welsh or NIrish issues.

This has threatened the very structure of that union which has existed since 1707. The English are now more and more calling for their own parliament. It would be akin to Australia giving every state apart from one state, for argument's sake let's make it SA, a parliament of its own.

As for some sports, England, Scotland, NI and Wales have always been considered seperate, for sports like the Olympics the British enter as one country.
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Pez201
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So England, Scotland, N Ireland and Wales are seperate countries, but united in one kingdom.

N Ireland, Wales and Scotland have their own parliaments, and these three parliaments can legislate for their own nations, but England doesn't have a parliament, all decisions affecting England are decided by the British parliament.

I think I have that. Thanks! :)

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It would be akin to Australia giving every state apart from one state, for argument's sake let's make it SA, a parliament of its own.


That would never happen. :ph43r:
"I never said i was the first person..yesh. I admit Pez was the first one to throw a goat" - Fin
Leader of the Canadian Fat Whale Party from 21/5/08 - 29/8/09 and from 1/8/09 when his 48 hour brain fuzz cleared up. :D
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Omnivorous
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Pez201,Jul 26 2008
02:06 PM
So England, Scotland, N Ireland and Wales are seperate countries, but united in one kingdom.

N Ireland, Wales and Scotland have their own parliaments, and these three parliaments can legislate for their own nations, but England doesn't have a parliament, all decisions affecting England are decided by the British parliament.

The only real reason there isn't an English Assembly is the fiasco over the seriously over-budget Scottish Assembly and the independence which would be likely to arise from four separate assemblies; plus, there is Parliament in the centre of the capital, so why build another?


The only things that are wrong with the system is that Scottish, Welsh and N. Irish ministers get a say in how English regional affairs is run (whilst they get "sole control" over their own regional affairs) and that independence is more likely to occur, which I don't view as a good thing.
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Pez201
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So I do have it right. :yay:
"I never said i was the first person..yesh. I admit Pez was the first one to throw a goat" - Fin
Leader of the Canadian Fat Whale Party from 21/5/08 - 29/8/09 and from 1/8/09 when his 48 hour brain fuzz cleared up. :D
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West Fryslan
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This is so unfair its ridiculous, probably illegal. In 1998 the EU forced the netherlands to give Frisia autonomy and a seperate legislative assembly. The Dutch government didn't go that far but gave our already existant provincial assembly more powers. They matched this by giving all other provincial assemblies the same powers.

I notice the EU won't force Britain to give England its own parliament and thats purely politically motivated. A divided and weak Britain appeals greatly to the EU but an independent England scares them senseless cos they know England is pretty much against Europe by 2 to 1.

It was Tony Blair's government that aggrevated Scottish independence more. If today there was only one parliament, the UK would be a stronger and more unified place but because Labour wanted to "strengthen the union" by givin it the means to break up, the UK is under threat and by 2010 could break up.

I hate the government the British have got in, they're seen as extremely pretentious and second only to the French in terms of their "ME ME ME" attitude in the EU by the Netherlands.

Nobody I have spoken to in the UK wants Scottish independence, and that includes the Scots I worked with in Dundee, a SNP voting city! The Scots I spoke to all said they want greater automony for Scotland but not independence and they say they want the same for England who they think is getting a rough deal just because its Tory territory. The SNP are hypocrits though. They want independence from the UK yet they want to be closer to EU including adopting the Euro for independent Scotland. Thats a classic case of "anything to save myself a job". Maybe I'm too used to honest ans accountable politicians like we have in Netherlands.

As for the EU like i mentioned earlier, I gage public mood like this: 2 to 1 say EU offers no benefit; 2 to 1 want out of the EU and 5 to 1 want Gordon Brown to call election and that's from the Labour voting area I liev and work in at the moment here in the UK.
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Pez201
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West Fryslan,Jul 27 2008
04:58 AM
Maybe I'm too used to honest ans accountable politicians like we have in Netherlands.

There are honest politicians in the world? :eyebrow: :P

But yes I've read your post, and I do see what you getting at.
"I never said i was the first person..yesh. I admit Pez was the first one to throw a goat" - Fin
Leader of the Canadian Fat Whale Party from 21/5/08 - 29/8/09 and from 1/8/09 when his 48 hour brain fuzz cleared up. :D
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Niongor
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Pez201,Jul 27 2008
10:24 AM
West Fryslan,Jul 27 2008
04:58 AM
Maybe I'm too used to honest ans accountable politicians like we have in Netherlands.

There are honest politicians in the world? :eyebrow: :P

But yes I've read your post, and I do see what you getting at.

Seriously? Honest politicians? :blink: *Speechless*

:P Seriously though, what you say about the UK, WF, is very true. In my university there's only one person I know who likes the EU...her name is Claire Benoit... :lol:

I really don't like the EU for one primary reason: they're all hypocritical. They preach about democracy and yet the EU itself is very undemocratic. They preach that nations such as the UK shouldn't interfere in other nations' affairs, yet the EU does that to not only member states but even non-member states such as Serbia and Croatia.

One more major reason I hate the EU: in 1973, as a condition of entry, Charlse De Gaulle *spit* said the UK had to end the "special relationship" it had with the Commonwealth of Nations, which meant Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders (as well as others) became "foreigners" overnight and were no longer treated as our equals whom could come and go as they pleased.

As that New Zealand politican (whose name escapes me) put it:
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The United Kingdom has turned her back on the Empire she spent 1,000 years building, in favour of closer ties with a continent she's spent 1,000 years fighting off.  This is nothing short of cold-hearted betrayal!


(Of course you must remember, New Zealand was effected more than any other CoN nation when UK joined what was then called the EEC in 1973).
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West Fryslan
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My dad always said the United Kingdom should never have been allowed to join the EEC. Not becuase he does not like the UK because he does, afterall UK gave him work when he couldn't find any in Netherlands. But he said that France manipulated UK until the British were ready to surrender their empire. He would say "why must they join Europe when they have their empire?"

France has always been jealous of others and it has carried that factor into the European Union with them. The French wanted their language (and no other) to be the language of the EU and intil 1996 it was. In the 19th century the Netherlands was one of the most economically thriving nations in Europe, France wasn't. So Napolean invaded our little country to cease its wealth.

The EU today is the same. They bully nations and take their money. The UK and Germany are the largest givers to the EU. The UK used to get a rebate but Tony Blair's last act as PM was to negotiate that away. Germany gets nothing in return.

The Netherlands is quite a pro-EU nation but more and more people are turning aginst the EU at home in NL.
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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I LOVE GERMANY!!!!! :hail: germany cuz they have everything good and delicious...
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West Fryslan
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The Dutch aren't so loving of the Germans :rolleyes: kinda goes back to both world wars and beyond that though
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Prometheus Projects
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West Fryslan,Jul 27 2008
09:49 PM
My dad always said the United Kingdom should never have been allowed to join the EEC. Not becuase he does not like the UK because he does, afterall UK gave him work when he couldn't find any in Netherlands. But he said that France manipulated UK until the British were ready to surrender their empire. He would say "why must they join Europe when they have their empire?"

France has always been jealous of others and it has carried that factor into the European Union with them. The French wanted their language (and no other) to be the language of the EU and intil 1996 it was. In the 19th century the Netherlands was one of the most economically thriving nations in Europe, France wasn't. So Napolean invaded our little country to cease its wealth.

The EU today is the same. They bully nations and take their money. The UK and Germany are the largest givers to the EU. The UK used to get a rebate but Tony Blair's last act as PM was to negotiate that away. Germany gets nothing in return.

The Netherlands is quite a pro-EU nation but more and more people are turning aginst the EU at home in NL.

I always thought that the EU was set up so the French could dominate the union.
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Niongor
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Prometheus Projects,Jul 29 2008
05:05 AM
West Fryslan,Jul 27 2008
09:49 PM
My dad always said the United Kingdom should never have been allowed to join the EEC. Not becuase he does not like the UK because he does, afterall UK gave him work when he couldn't find any in Netherlands. But he said that France manipulated UK until the British were ready to surrender their empire. He would say "why must they join Europe when they have their empire?"

France has always been jealous of others and it has carried that factor into the European Union with them. The French wanted their language (and no other) to be the language of the EU and intil 1996 it was. In the 19th century the Netherlands was one of the most economically thriving nations in Europe, France wasn't. So Napolean invaded our little country to cease its wealth.

The EU today is the same. They bully nations and take their money. The UK and Germany are the largest givers to the EU. The UK used to get a rebate but Tony Blair's last act as PM was to negotiate that away. Germany gets nothing in return.

The Netherlands is quite a pro-EU nation but more and more people are turning aginst the EU at home in NL.

I always thought that the EU was set up so the French could dominate the union.

The European Union was first set up under the name of "European Coal and Steel Community) and it was set up by the Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg), France, Italy and West Germany to control the coal and steel being produced by those respective nations.

Non-biassed political anylists nowadays say that the main drivers behind the ECSC was France (who did not produce much coal or steel) to control West Germany (who was then Europe's largest steel maker). Essentially the French government was paranoid that Germany would regain its economic strength that it had leading into World War II and so the French created a community that would supress that.

Later the snowball effect took hold and eventually the European Economic Community came into effect, which later evolved into the European Union *spit*.
"There is no next time: it's now or never!"

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