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SFTDOG; Society For The Discussion Of Government
Topic Started: Jul 14 2008, 10:54 AM (1,462 Views)
Niongor
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Giver of the *Hi-5*
Kartoffel Kanzler,Jul 22 2008
06:11 PM
ahh virginia my birthstate, my home(as is idaho).... it's epic win!

i don't think a union should make up anyone's mind, it's almost as if they are acting as totalitarians on the people who they represent.

British unions were very controlling before 1979. My granddad worked in the UK in the sixties and seventies when your union automatically siphoned off 10% of your wage to give to the Labour party. My granddad would never vote Labour and so he played hell to the union's office about it. His union's leader actually said "Somebody should fire you for not being a socialist" and my granddad in typical gutsy fashion answered, "Some f**ker should fire you for being a socialist!" :lol: That manager then later joined the National Front...enough said.

In all seriousness though that's how the unions used to work. In the UK unions are no longer allowed to automatically take wages from you to give to any party let alone Labour. You're also no longer mandatorily joined into a union in the UK and you no longer have to be a member to get a job, as was the case in pre-1979 Britain.

When started working for B&Q the union leader came over with her sign-up papers and started filling out my name. I just stopped her and said, "I'm not a trade unionist, I never would be and if you finish writing my name on that form I'll seven shades of legal sh*t down on you..." She very quickly put the forms in the bin and snapped, "Well, when we go on strike, you'll have to work!" My answer, "Oh no...I'll just have to make do with the double pay I'll get for crossing picket lines..." Her face looked like a smacked arse! :rofl: Mind you since I said that no new-comer has signed up to the trade union.
"There is no next time: it's now or never!"

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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
WOOO LETS HERE IT FOR NIONGOR AND HIS PA FOR BEING CAPITALIST!!! WOOHOOO!!!!! *hands trophies*
heh
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
now for another government type: corporatocracy, arguably america is one of these :P
heh
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Almonaster
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Homophonophile
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Isn't that a more organised form of Kleptocracy?
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I'm in ur detailz likin' ur sinz. :evil:
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
not necissarily, it does present benefit to those who work for a living. It'd probably bring wealth to a society however it would have costs.
heh
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Fin
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Tilting Windmills
"next government: Representative democracy."

No such thing as this sort of government. Theres either a republic or a democracy. There are no in between. ANd mr. Plato believes that a true democracy would never work. I think it would a government that is soly rule by the will of the people rule best.

ANd Nion as i said before theres only one great and one true Commonwealth, the commonwealth of Virginia
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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woo virginia! personally republics are not the best system. Democracy is the closest to being a stable, succesful and free system of government. Republic is often corrupt and often exlude many's ideas. I think a democracy is possible, it would need the peoples support(revolutionary war of independance) it would need a good leader(washington) and it would need good succesors in order to survive it's many terrible times. It's quite funny, there really was no representative democracy or even a JUST democracy in the USA during ww2, FDR was almost if not, a dictator of america, he interned ANY asian of ANY generation just for being supposed japanese. He'd probably get congress to sign anything just from his power with the masses of senators and congressmen/women and their support for the war. Yet he's often remembered as an american hero.
heh
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
anyone got a government they'd like to discuss?
heh
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Niongor
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Totalitarianism
Wikipedia
 
Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a concept used to describe political systems where a state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private life. The term is usually applied to Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany or communist states, such as Stalinist Russia, Democratic Kampuchea, Vietnam, China, Cuba and North Korea. Totalitarian regimes or movements maintain themselves in political power by means of an official all-embracing ideology and propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that controls the state, personality cults, central state-controlled economy, regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism, the use of mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror tactics.


I think right now the UK is very slowly creeping towards this. The government recently announced plans to create a giant data base that would store every text message and email sent. The BBC were vague on this so I don't know whether that means every text/email sent by anyone or just those under observation by the government.

1 in 5 security cameras in the entire world are found in the United Kingdom and we're officially more watched than the people of China, which as aforementioned, is a totalitarian state. On top of this the UK now has bio-metric passports and the Labour government are still dedicated to introducing an ID Card system (as found in most of Europe).

This coupled with the fact there is a giant police database holding DNA of upto 5 million individuals suggest very strongly to me, that the UK is slowly moving into a totalitarian state. It is no longer a case of, "Only the guilty need be worried!"
"There is no next time: it's now or never!"

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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
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i guess that orwel book was right :P (1984 wasn't that the title?)
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
animal farm is also quite a good book that relates to life. It is a showing of human nature(personified by animals and humans alike).
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Niongor
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Kartoffel Kanzler,Jul 25 2008
12:29 AM
animal farm is also quite a good book that relates to life. It is a showing of human nature(personified by animals and humans alike).

Animal farm is actually an excellent summation as to how communism and socialism are extremely hypocritical, corrupted and impossible to work. The writer of both Animal Farm and 1984 was himself a self-declared democratic socialist, therefore I think that makes the books' messages even more powerful.
"There is no next time: it's now or never!"

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Kyleslavia
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Niongor,Jul 25 2008
04:09 PM
Kartoffel Kanzler,Jul 25 2008
12:29 AM
animal farm is also quite a good book that relates to life.  It is a showing of human nature(personified by animals and humans alike).

Animal farm is actually an excellent summation as to how communism and socialism are extremely hypocritical, corrupted and impossible to work. The writer of both Animal Farm and 1984 was himself a self-declared democratic socialist, therefore I think that makes the books' messages even more powerful.

Indeed, Animal Farm did a superb job of showing the contrasts between communism on paper and communism in practice through cute cuddly animals such as snowball and Napoleon.
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Pez201
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Niongor,Jul 25 2008
03:50 AM
I think right now the UK is very slowly creeping towards this. The government recently announced plans to create a giant data base that would store every text message and email sent. The BBC were vague on this so I don't know whether that means every text/email sent by anyone or just those under observation by the government.

1 in 5 security cameras in the entire world are found in the United Kingdom and we're officially more watched than the people of China, which as aforementioned, is a totalitarian state. On top of this the UK now has bio-metric passports and the Labour government are still dedicated to introducing an ID Card system (as found in most of Europe).

This coupled with the fact there is a giant police database holding DNA of upto 5 million individuals suggest very strongly to me, that the UK is slowly moving into a totalitarian state. It is no longer a case of, "Only the guilty need be worried!"

*calming, soothing voice*

Don't worry Nio... we're here to help... and it's for your PROTECTION... :shifty:

That's the problem with technology, it gives The Powers That Be the ability to track everything we do.

*makes tinfoil hat*

Guess who pays cash for everything so it can't be traced? :rolleyes:
"I never said i was the first person..yesh. I admit Pez was the first one to throw a goat" - Fin
Leader of the Canadian Fat Whale Party from 21/5/08 - 29/8/09 and from 1/8/09 when his 48 hour brain fuzz cleared up. :D
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Fin
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Tilting Windmills
Ohhh me
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Pez201
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I'm a bit sus of all bureaucracies. :unsure:

Well, I rang up Telstra (Aussie phone company) a few weeks ago about something to do with my mum's account (my home internet connection is in her name).

Telstra call centre man: And just for security measures, what was your mother's last name before she was married.
Me: *tells name*
Telstra call centre man: ok, thanks for that.

Later on:

Mum: So, everything sorted?
Me: Yes, because I was ringing up about your account, they wanted to know your last name before you were married, as a security measure.
Mum: I've never told them what my name was before I was married! They shouldn't have that info!

Later on, I realised something: I had given them my mum's last name as it was at birth, but the name she had before she married my old man was the name from her first marriage. So the info I had given the guy was totally wrong, but he had accepted it anyway. :eyebrow:

Don't know what that has to do with government... but anyway. :P
"I never said i was the first person..yesh. I admit Pez was the first one to throw a goat" - Fin
Leader of the Canadian Fat Whale Party from 21/5/08 - 29/8/09 and from 1/8/09 when his 48 hour brain fuzz cleared up. :D
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Niongor
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I'm always suspicious of the British government. Ever since Labour got in, our civil liberties have started being curtailed and they justify it by calling it "counter-terrorism". The last time the British had ID cards was during WW2 when anyone of us could have been a German spy.

As for people requiring maiden names, when my bank asked me for my mother's maiden name as a security question I just asked them for another security question, and they asked what country I was born in instead. You're entitled by law (in both UK and Australia) to ask for any security question you like :yes:

As a side note, Gordon Brown and his Labour party lost yet another special election this week (called "by elections" in the UK). When asked what it meant, what as his answer? Typical fluent bullsh*t: "This is a message that people want us to keep doing what we have been doing and to continue with the work we have been doing on the economy."

Um...no...I think it actually means...NO F**KER WANTS YOU IN POWER ANYMORE!!! DOWN WITH BROWN!!!

He's going to be in power until 3 June 2010 when the constitutional practises of the UK will force him to hold an election. I think the UK needs to have elections on the same time scale as Australia - every three years. It's times like this the Queen should have the power to overwrite Gordon "Slack Jaw" Brown and force an election.
"There is no next time: it's now or never!"

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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
who knew 1984 would ACTUALLY start to come true??? :rofl:
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West Fryslan
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Niongor,Jul 24 2008
06:20 PM
Totalitarianism
Wikipedia
 
Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a concept used to describe political systems where a state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private life. The term is usually applied to Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany or communist states, such as Stalinist Russia, Democratic Kampuchea, Vietnam, China, Cuba and North Korea. Totalitarian regimes or movements maintain themselves in political power by means of an official all-embracing ideology and propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that controls the state, personality cults, central state-controlled economy, regulation and restriction of free discussion and criticism, the use of mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror tactics.


I think right now the UK is very slowly creeping towards this. The government recently announced plans to create a giant data base that would store every text message and email sent. The BBC were vague on this so I don't know whether that means every text/email sent by anyone or just those under observation by the government.

1 in 5 security cameras in the entire world are found in the United Kingdom and we're officially more watched than the people of China, which as aforementioned, is a totalitarian state. On top of this the UK now has bio-metric passports and the Labour government are still dedicated to introducing an ID Card system (as found in most of Europe).

This coupled with the fact there is a giant police database holding DNA of upto 5 million individuals suggest very strongly to me, that the UK is slowly moving into a totalitarian state. It is no longer a case of, "Only the guilty need be worried!"

In Netherlands a government would be lead to the firing squadron if they tried this much infringement of civil liberties. When I first worked in the UK I was actually unsettled by how much information your government requires from you. Also I'm from the EU and so allowed to live and work in the UK without restriction yet the British guy I work with had way more trouble getting a job than I did.

ID cards are used in Belgium and Germany the two countries we border, but they're not used in Netherlands because people would revolt at the idea. Its an infringement on our civil rights simple as that. Its an attempt by the government to know where everyone is at what time when.

We have passports for ID we dont need yet another card for it. I have heard one supporter of ID cards say "You dont need it always, you only need it for when you go anywhere you need to prove who you are" so in otherwords you need to carry it everywhere! First you'll only need it for buying alcohol but then the police will stop and search you - no ID card? You're in the shit! The UK is certainly the most watched country in europe. It makes me uncomfortable to be so watched in the UK. I was actually shocked by all the security cameras everywhere. I make it a policy of mine to give them the one fingered salute.
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Kyleslavia
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ID cards are also used in Poland. A few days ago while I was working, I asked for ID when someone was buying alcohol. He presented me a Polish ID card, which was neat.
Come and visit Kylesburg City, please clicky!
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