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SFTDOG; Society For The Discussion Of Government
Topic Started: Jul 14 2008, 10:54 AM (1,463 Views)
Kyleslavia
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Gold Antilles,Jul 20 2008
01:43 PM
The US would never join the Commonwealth for a single reason: they wouldn't be in charge. The USA only joins organisations it can run and dictate to.


It's not only that, but also an issue of self identity. Americans would never associate themselves with the British Monarchy. We have our own identity. Americans as a whole wouldn't be happy about accepting Queen Elizabeth as our head of state, considering we fought a bloody war to shake off British rule.
Come and visit Kylesburg City, please clicky!
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
yup we sure battered those brits... tehehehehe they didn't think to shoot our officers while we were happy shootin at anyone british. guerilla warfare ROCKS! :band: those brits were such traditionalists back them eh.
heh
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Gold Antilles
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Kyleslavia,Jul 20 2008
06:26 PM
Gold Antilles,Jul 20 2008
01:43 PM
The US would never join the Commonwealth for a single reason: they wouldn't be in charge. The USA only joins organisations it can run and dictate to.


It's not only that, but also an issue of self identity. Americans would never associate themselves with the British Monarchy. We have our own identity. Americans as a whole wouldn't be happy about accepting Queen Elizabeth as our head of state, considering we fought a bloody war to shake off British rule.

The Commonwealth of Nations has 53 member states, 16 of which are "Commonwealth Realms" who have Queen Elizabeth II as their head of state. Furthermore, the Republic of Mozambique (which was never a British colony or protectorate) joined the Commonwealth of Nations. Thus a republic, with no history to the UK can join, qualifying the United States to (tho you guys have history with the British). Depsite this the US wouldn't join because it wouldn't be top player and the Commonwealth of Nations is the evolution of the British Empire which the Americans were only part of until 1776. There is of course the fact that it wouldn't benefit the US.....

Also, KK, you overlooked the fact the French helped the Americans win their revolution. They build up a blockade around British ports in the Americas, thus stopping supplies reaching the British troops, also the British were outnumbered and just generally didn't have the equipment or funds to fight in the war considering they'd been drained fighting the Dutch and French at the time.

I like the way the Americans repayed the French for their help, however. As a nice little thank you to them, George Washington decided to build closer trade relations with the British instead of the French. I love that! :lol:

I studied US and British history at college :rolleyes:

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those brits were such traditionalists back them eh

Shame they're not more traditionalist nowadays and they wouldn't be putting foreigners in Europe ahead of their own kind in their colonies and dependencies :no:
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Omnivorous
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Gold Antilles,Jul 20 2008
08:49 PM
Quote:
 
those brits were such traditionalists back them eh

Shame they're not more traditionalist nowadays and they wouldn't be putting foreigners in Europe ahead of their own kind in their colonies and dependencies :no:

I'm traditionalist, and so are a few others here *cough*Nio*cough* ( :P ) - WWII scuppered the world, not only in loss of life and general destruction but also (in the need to prevent it happening again) with the international structures which plague our freedoms :(


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A recent survey showed that countries with higher levels of personal freedom combined with high amounts of democracy are almost always without exception the happiest and most fulfilled countries on Earth.

The Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) and Ireland are always the top nations on these lists.
Not only those things, but also culturally they are all rich and distinct.
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
personally i LOVE the british monarchy, such a rich and wonderful history a few civil wars here and there... but they really made the world what it is today. The french helped but even still the british couldn't have put in too many troops or else other colonies could rebel as well, so the U.S.A was really created by mostly american help and of course von stueben's help and some french intervention, also the spanish intervened in the war, but they only declared war on britain, they didn't want a revolution to occur in their country or colonies.
heh
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Fin
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Tilting Windmills
"personally i LOVE the british monarchy, such a rich and wonderful history a few civil wars here and there... but they really made the world what it is today."

Yeah and they sure made the world a better place
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Fin,Jul 21 2008
12:12 PM
"personally i LOVE the british monarchy, such a rich and wonderful history a few civil wars here and there... but they really made the world what it is today."

Yeah and they sure made the world a better place

I agree... monarchies basically say "I'm better than you by birthright" and that's it, they have no incentive to PROVE that they are smarter or better at leading the country than anyone else.
"I never said i was the first person..yesh. I admit Pez was the first one to throw a goat" - Fin
Leader of the Canadian Fat Whale Party from 21/5/08 - 29/8/09 and from 1/8/09 when his 48 hour brain fuzz cleared up. :D
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
next government: Kleptocracy

i hope we can all agree that it is not a good type of government.
heh
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Niongor
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Just one thing on what Omni said, I am a traditionalist, a die-hard one. I think if something is proven by ages past to have worked then there's no point in fixing what ain't broken.

As for what Pez said, I think the monarchy nowadays, expecially the British monarchy, is beginning to evolve into one where they do have to work for our approval and simply being monarch "because I was born to" isn't really gonna cut it anymore. I think there should always be some pressure for the monarchy to prove themselves but not as much pressure as should be put on governments. Governments have a lot of power and are elected, the Monarch of the day is a figurehead and a summation of our national identity, governments, certainly in the UK, never serve that purpose.

Now for what GA said on the US. I believe the US wouldn't join the Commonwealth of Nations quite simply because they'd have nothing to gain. Israel and Palestine both expressed interest in joining the Commonwealth recently and seeing as how the British created Israel in 1948, I think they should be allowed to join. If the United States joined I think most Commonwealth nations would vote to reject them. UK, India and Canada and Australia are the most powerful nations in the CoN and I'm sure they wouldn't want to be outshone by the US, which they would if they joined.

Kleptocracy
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A kleptocracy (sometimes cleptocracy, occasionally kleptarchy) (root: klepto+kratein = rule by thieves) is a term applied to a government that extends the personal wealth and political power of government officials and the ruling class (collectively, kleptocrats) at the expense of the population. A kleptocratic government often goes beyond mere cronyism and nepotism, or awarding the prime contracts and civil service posts to relatives or personal friends rather than the most competent applicants. They also create projects and programs at a policy level which serve the primary purpose of funneling money out of the treasury and into the pockets of the executive with little if any regard for the logic, viability or necessity of those projects.

Nobody apart from the benefitiaries benefit under this system. Personally, I would never consider the leading powers of a kleptocracy a legitimate government.
"There is no next time: it's now or never!"

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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
i wonder if there's a thing such as a pyrocracy or a government led by people who like to light stuff on fire :rofl:
heh
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jDELIGHT
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I keep thinking this is the STFU Dawg thread.

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Pez201
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Niongor,Jul 21 2008
11:03 PM
UK, India and Canada are the most powerful nations in the CoN and I'm sure they wouldn't want to be outshone by the US, which they would if they joined.

*coughs politely, and says nothing about the fact that Australia pwns every other Commonwealth nation every four years at the Commonwealth games* :P

Yeah, kleptocracy seems to be a crappy government... but it does remind me of my teachers inhigh school, and how they favoured the students who played on the same sporting teams as they did. :rolleyes:

Quote:
 
I keep thinking this is the STFU Dawg thread.


That's why I did bother looking at the thread when it was set up. :P
"I never said i was the first person..yesh. I admit Pez was the first one to throw a goat" - Fin
Leader of the Canadian Fat Whale Party from 21/5/08 - 29/8/09 and from 1/8/09 when his 48 hour brain fuzz cleared up. :D
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Fin
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Tilting Windmills
Pez"*coughs politely, and says nothing about the fact that Australia pwns every other Commonwealth"

Hey theres only one great commonwealth and thats Virginia
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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:hail: virginia
heh
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
next government: Representative democracy.
heh
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Omnivorous
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Kartoffel Kanzler,Jul 22 2008
11:56 AM
next government: Representative democracy.

Representative! Democracy! You make me laugh :lol:


Srsly, the only really democratic part is when you go to the booth to vote for the one who says they'll reduce your taxes the most.
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Kyleslavia
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Omnivorous,Jul 22 2008
01:17 PM
Kartoffel Kanzler,Jul 22 2008
11:56 AM
next government:  Representative democracy.

Representative! Democracy! You make me laugh :lol:


Srsly, the only really democratic part is when you go to the booth to vote for the one who says they'll reduce your taxes the most.

My union (Linky) tells me who to vote for. :lol:
Come and visit Kylesburg City, please clicky!
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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
not always after all in a world of millions ther'd have 2 be one who cares bout' the people at heart :P it isn't the worst government though.
heh
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Niongor
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Pez201,Jul 22 2008
03:18 AM
*coughs politely, and says nothing about the fact that Australia pwns every other Commonwealth nation every four years at the Commonwealth games* :P

DAM STRAIGHT!!! EAT DIRT YOU LESSER SPORTING NATIONS OF THE COMMONWEALTH!!!

Fin @ Jul 22 2008
04:00 AM
Hey theres only one great commonwealth and thats Virginia

The only great Commonwealth be the Commonwealth of Australia. The Commonwealth of England the original of course!

Kyleslavia @ Jul 22 2008
05:25 PM
My union (Linky) tells me who to vote for. :lol:

Say what?!?! That should be illegal! You should be allowed to make your own decisions not what the f**king union tells you. Margaret Thatcher took on the unions about that and won.

As for representative democracies, I think in the UK they're over-representative. We have too many MPs. The United States with a population of 300 million gets by with 435 representatives and 100 Senators. Australia, population 20 million, gets by with 150 MPs and 76 Senators. The UK meanwhile, population 60 million, has 659 MPs and 732 members of the House of Lords. The British House of Commons only has seats for 430-ish people!

I think the UK parliament needs to slim down. Useless MPs and even more useless peers need to be given the boot and stop taking salaries we pay them for. We literally pay them to do nothing other than to sit on their arses! :angry:

Representative democracy, after direct democracy (as in Switzerland) is the best governmental system in the world.
"There is no next time: it's now or never!"

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Kartoffel Kanzler
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Paul Emil Rocks
ahh virginia my birthstate, my home(as is idaho).... it's epic win!

i don't think a union should make up anyone's mind, it's almost as if they are acting as totalitarians on the people who they represent.
heh
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