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| The Obvious Question | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 4 2006, 12:45 AM (836 Views) | |
| Yodaminch | Feb 4 2006, 12:45 AM Post #1 |
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Administrator
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I thought we'd start this discussion with the most obvious question and the hardest. What's wrong with the Community Chat Forum? A broad topic I know. I would very much like to hear from everyone including staff on this one. |
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| Sani | Feb 4 2006, 12:53 AM Post #2 |
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First Grade
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I think that the users do not ever read the rules, creating extra jobs for the mods and support team. Certain users also like being crass and rude to tohers who are honest newbies, and do not know what to do. And also backseat moderators.. They should be warned on sight. One more thing. People tend to get very ticked off, when they are proven wrong. It happens alot in Community Chat.. |
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| Jappyx | Feb 4 2006, 01:00 AM Post #3 |
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Second Grade
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I would not say things are "wrong", I'd say that things could do with some improvements. First off, and it's an obvious one, is the repeat topics. They do not come around much, but I have seen a few questions regarding PM restrictions. It's the same question as the other threads have asked before. Maybe, in addition to the Community Chat Rules topic, a Community FAQ post that includes things such as restrictions information, as well as other general notices and questions that often pop up. Another, I really enjoyed the "Extreme Makeover" game that was played. I did not enter, however I did watch it and I really liked it. It was amazing to see such talents, as well as the staff and members interacting in such an awesome way. I think that more of these games are a good idea.. I think I speak for the rest of the community when I say that - and the poll's proved that too. Sani mentioned that some people are rude to newbie's. I agree. People need to let newbie's go and just let them ask questions. I feel that sometimes newbie's become "intimidated" and don't want to ask questions because of what people might reply with rude comments.
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| Potter | Feb 4 2006, 01:40 AM Post #4 |
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Third Grade
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I think that Community Chat is fine but can be improved. 1) Backseat moderators 2) Lack of rule readings, which we can see when members make support topics and advertising threads, which make the forum look really junky, even though the threads are closed. 3) There are a lot of question threads in CC; maybe specific threads for Windows and other kinds of support could be created. 4) As the guys above me have already stated, newbies aren't treated that well sometimes. A new enforced policy could end this problem. 5) I think a new thread each month for birthday wishes would also add to the community. The staff members could be exempt from this and have their own if desired. |
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| dlf | Feb 4 2006, 01:46 AM Post #5 |
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Second Grade
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IMO I think just to many topics, and or what they said above. I think more sub forums for things (like "serious dissusion"), etc. IMO. Also stricter to Back-Seat-Modding (or BSM as I call it). |
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| Locke | Feb 4 2006, 02:16 AM Post #6 |
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First Grade
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A point I have seen raised so far in, I believe, everyone's posts is the fact that rules aren't read. Although we can't make certain that each user does, a big step towards fixing this problem would be to repost the Guidelines/Rules with a much cleaner and efficient structure. As it stands there is a lot of fluff spread through 6 posts and this could easily be encompassed in a more streamlined singular post. The line between dictatorship and enforcement of rules is a thin one when it comes to how people will react to punishments. I can't say I know too much about how IF deals with punishments in specific circumstances as I haven't seen logs, but handing out more punishments to people who are 'bashing noobs' can backfire as those doing the flaming feel as though they are being betrayed by the very thing which they feel they are protecting by smashing noobish behavior into the ground. I agree that it should be enforced, but I think only repeat offenses should carry much actual weight in punishment. As for subforums, believe me when I say that can get sticky. I feel that the only one that IF should consider adding is a more general technology forum (almost an addition to the Programming & Scripting Chat forum, in a way). The reason that I would suggest against adding anymore subforums than that is because specifically in the case of adding a 'deep discussion' forum, you will find eventually that the quality of discussion in the main forum has lowered beyond much hope. Rather, I think it better to encourage a general level of higher discussion for all of the topics in the main Community Chat forum rather than dividing the forum up between the intellectuals and those defeated by the task of using their brains. I think that's enough to start with for now. I shall continue as more responses are made.
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| Drangonsile | Feb 4 2006, 02:21 AM Post #7 |
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Second Grade
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The thread page will somtimes get crowded by locked advertisements/spam, it would probly be best to just delete them to make it seem less cluttered b/c it seems no one likes replying to somthing on page 2 even if it is a good discussion. I agree with Potter's Birthday idea, they also add to the clutter (But still seem like a good part of the community). |
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| Sani | Feb 4 2006, 02:42 AM Post #8 |
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First Grade
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@Locke: The reason I said that noob bashing (first time or otherwise) should be frowned on is because we were newbies once, and the friendly people there made us come back and be regulars. Im sure the regulars would feel that they are "protecting" IF by doing such things, but I know for a fact that word of mouth advertising spreads faster than anything else.. Just a thought.. |
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| Yodaminch | Feb 4 2006, 03:28 AM Post #9 |
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Few points here. I've already brough up a birthday topic in the staff room. I've thought of two solutions: 1. Birthday in Ratings and Games 2. Birthday and Welcome/Goodbye in same topic. Extreme Makeover for members is coming. We'll discuss specifics soon I hope. I see a lot of interesting opinions. Particularly the "there's nothing wrong with it" line. If there isn't something wrong, then what is being done right? I see problems but can't figure out how to fix them, hence you guys. Mass trashing locked/moved topics isn't a bad idea. Agree with Locke on discussion subforum issue. Same issue brought up by staff actually. |
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| Potter | Feb 4 2006, 03:32 AM Post #10 |
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Third Grade
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I actually like the Ratings and Games idea. That way, everyone gets their own thread. I'm for either idea, really.
Agreed.
*gasp* That sounds fantabulous, Yodaminch! ![]() |
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| Jappyx | Feb 4 2006, 03:48 AM Post #11 |
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Second Grade
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*Jappyx is very happy about a new Extreem Makeover! Nice move.I agree with a few more subforums too, such as the deep/serious discussion. I love topcis like that, so a whole subforum dedicated to them will be awesome.
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| Iostream | Feb 4 2006, 04:49 AM Post #12 |
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First Grade
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well a long time back i was suspended for two weeks and i can really remember why. ive been on IF for about waht 2-3 years now and the one major thing i remembered about that instance, was that there was NO way to apologize and possibly shorten my sentance to lower than two weeks. the only way i was able to do that is by remember seth's AIM name and talking with him and jay or RoRy, im not sure. there should DEFINATELY be a way of contact to observe the reasoinings behind the punishment along with possible ways of redeaming one's self. read the rules is definately something hard to enforce. other than a registration PMm or something i got nothing. possibly a sticky the posts all the banned members with something written about them? and a message with "Don't let this happen to you! Read the *Rules* ( the * denotes a link) its a hard thing to do. |
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| dlf | Feb 4 2006, 05:33 AM Post #13 |
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Second Grade
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I sort of agree what that. I got suspended for a day or so because I had adv or another forum (which wasn't IF) in my IF support sig. I think I sent a support ticket via a board I had open (which was closed thanks to brandon). It would and should be nice for members to know why they were suspended/banned. seems like a feature request. |
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| Jory | Feb 4 2006, 12:06 PM Post #14 |
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First Grade
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Suspention Reason: Moderators can suspend you via the warn panel, at the time they give you a warn right? Maybe, the reason should just be sent to you via email atomatically. (As a PM can't be read untill the suspention is over. Right? :unsure:) And if they don't get that email because they don't check the adress they registered with, then thats there problem imo. Birthday/Welcome/Goodbay Topics: I also support the move of birthday and introduction topics to another subforum (and Gaming and Rating would be a good option for that.) , I'd preffer that over the Revolving Door Topics. Noob Bashing: I think you guys should be a bit stricter on that. Maybe just send a PM to somebody if they do it, asking them to stop. (Like a pre-warning) As they did not receave an official warning, they won't freak out or anything. Or maybe just post in the topic that they should not bash noobs, making a statement to everybody. (Tho then, you'd have to word it differently )Deep Discussion subforum: I'm against this, as this would (like Locke said) cause the level in the CC to lower. Instead, try to move the low level topics that are there now to another place. (No more birthday topics would help in that. )Maybe, instead, as a polls subforum, where things like Why did they vote Tina Off! and NBA vs NFL can go. (And if you do make a polls subforum, make a sticky topic there explaining how polls work. 90% of them lets you chose multiple things, even tho that probally wasn't what the maker wanted.) Technology Subforum: If you do this, where does it end? I beleave it would then instead be better to ad a Technology forum to the Community Forums categorie, and make Programming and Scripting Chat a subforum of that. Rule Reading: I think it would be hard to get people to do this. Sticky topics could probally be given another color with a little bit of JS. (Even tho IFS is supposed to be as default as it can.) And having sticky topics that redirect to the board rules could improve on the number of people that view that. (Tho again, that would require JS.) Backseat Moderation: I don't really see that much of it in CC. And if people do backseat moderate, I think it would be better to try fix the problem (rule breaking) and not a result (backseat moderation). |
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| Yodaminch | Feb 4 2006, 12:28 PM Post #15 |
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I find it very disturbing that you guys are telling me you weren't contacted when suspended. I personally always e-mail and have line that says something like: "if you believe this to be a mistake feel free to e-mail me and calmly explain the situation. I've reduced suspensions in the past" Regarding topic color changes for pinned topics, merc already made something like that and i think we agreed it would be ignored anyway. |
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| Homestar | Feb 4 2006, 03:04 PM Post #16 |
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First Grade
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We need to try and encourage people to post more worthwhile threads because i dont know if you have all noticed but the quality of posts made has really gone down hill. We need to find a way to get people to post interesting things without repeating themselves. I mean all i have seen over the last few months are "what do you think" posts or "what browser are you using" over and over again. Dont get me wrong im not bagging anyone but we need to find out how to liven up the chat. |
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| Potter | Feb 4 2006, 03:39 PM Post #17 |
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Third Grade
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Maybe this can be set out in a new board rule for ALL moderators to email the members they are suspending. |
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| Yodaminch | Feb 4 2006, 03:51 PM Post #18 |
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Administrator
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I have noticed. Any suggestions?
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| Drangonsile | Feb 4 2006, 04:27 PM Post #19 |
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Second Grade
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A poll forum could take alot of those off. Maybe an advice subforum? |
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| Dennis | Feb 4 2006, 05:15 PM Post #20 |
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Second Grade
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I just realized I've been involved with all three of the uses of this forum. IF Dropouts, Stump, and now this. heh Anyways, the biggest problem I see is the people who come into a perfectly good, interesting thread and send it in the completely wrong direction, either purposely, or because they're major n00bs. Of course, I don't think you can really stop people from doing this, so I don't know what to do about that. Another problem I have is all of the people making duplicate topics. One forum I was a member of ages ago told you to search the ENTIRE forum before posting. If the topic already existed, evern from a year ago, you were to 'revive' it. I think that's a bad idea, but at the same time, I think it's a better idea to encourage people to at least check all of the topics on the two most recent pages or something. |
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| dlf | Feb 4 2006, 05:21 PM Post #21 |
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Second Grade
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Just sad. just sad. Even with pages and posts set to 90 and things set to from the start that's 63 pages to look though. I don't think anyone (with settings of 10 or above [up to 90]) would want to look though atlest 63->(nearly)200 [or more] pages for repeate topics. |
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| Locke | Feb 4 2006, 05:34 PM Post #22 |
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First Grade
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The first step in bringing about the existence of a higher quality of topics is to encourage your fellow Community Moderators to create new topics about more intelligent items of conversation -- whether they be debates, politics, or a real life discussion of some sort. The simple fact that a Staff Member created the topic will guarantee that the topic is paid more attention than others. The first few of these will be a battle of sorts because beyond creating the topic, Community Moderators need to actively continue carrying the conversation and keeping it on task. If this doesn't happen, it sends the message that off-topic and lower quality posting is alright. Or that the Staff are simply intimidated by such posting. |
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| ibh | Feb 4 2006, 06:26 PM Post #23 |
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Second Grade
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I have to say, the rules need to be relaxed! I registered on Dec 31, I was worried about posting my intro in the Jan intro thread! OK, in general support, BSM can be annoying, but in community chat, it's not that major! The internet is the only place where freedom of speech truely exists - lets keep it that way! In fact, that's going in my sig! Though I have to say, it could be larger, maybe a sub-forum for intros? sub-forum for serious discussions? I also think that we shouldn't have our heads bitten off (in comm chat or anywhere for that matter) for linking a skin on the IF skin zone, or a code on iFusion.
My bro got banned from IF! Though, there was good reason, he had to wait until his suspension was over to find out, then he re-registered which got him banned! It was Seth who banned him incidentally. |
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| DreamWiva | Feb 4 2006, 07:12 PM Post #24 |
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First Grade
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yes, hes right. Also, maybe adding some sort of code like [Discussion] infront of all serious discussion topics may help, and in these serious discussion topics, someone should frequently clean the topic, as i know that sometimes pages and pages are filled up in these discussions overnight, and i hardly have the time and patience sifting through the pages to read the interesting posts.
i believe that to be a bad thing actually, but lets not go into that :mellow: |
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| FusedFox | Feb 4 2006, 07:48 PM Post #25 |
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First Grade
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I believe everyone has already stated the obvious concerns for the Community forums. I can only reiterate their statements and concerns, but I have to say that the serious problems we should focus on before we get into the lesser concerns (such as the birthday threads and locked threads cluttering up the forum). Noob Bashing It happens just too much. I think that once users have been members for so long, they just get a higher feeling over all others, as if they're royalty. And it doesn't even have to do with when they joined, really, it's mostly based on post count. I've been a member longer than some staff members and my post count is considerably lower because I don't post as much as I lurk. Quality Posts As already stated, there are just too many repeat topics that keep being repeated. I think we should focus on bringing in more mature discussions while keeping the general fun topics in the forum as well. We need to find a good mixture of the two so that the forum will appeal to everyone. Concerning the staff-member gap, I think that the rules are seen as way too strict to a beginning member these days. That wasn't the case for me when I joined, but a lot of things have changed on IF since then, so the forum has an intimidating feel to new members, IMO. |
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| ibh | Feb 4 2006, 07:59 PM Post #26 |
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Second Grade
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Agreed. |
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| Dennis | Feb 4 2006, 08:44 PM Post #27 |
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Second Grade
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I didn't say they had to look through every single topic. Just the last couple of pages.
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| DreamWiva | Feb 4 2006, 08:56 PM Post #28 |
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First Grade
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have like a sticky or something with the common polls like "how old are you" or "whats your favourite browser" I think having more topics where members/staff would ask for advice would encourage new and old members to post their opinions, as different people have experienced different problems. Speaking of which, i know its a long shot,and probably not right for some, but maybe staff should ask for advice (real life kind of stuff, like how to boil an egg ), which may bridge the gap between members and staff, and members may feel less intimidated by staff and other members.Maybe admins should make more topics too, ive seen less and less of them lately. |
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| Das | Feb 4 2006, 10:14 PM Post #29 |
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Second Grade
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Ideas: 1. Poll Forum with a pinned topic of common polls 2. Remove gaming disscusion. All it does is promote flames, and if there is new breaking news, they can post in the normal forum. It is the must under-used forum. 3. More "Extreme Makeover" things. 4. ONE happy birthday topic. It doesn't have to be pinned. 5. If you advertise twice, instant one week post disable. 6. If you post spam thrice, instant one week post disable.
I think the exact opposite. There is always someone advertising. If anything there should be more strict punishments.
If you're rude you should get one warn then insant post disable.
When you're pm restricted you should be sent a E-mail saying it is permant.
There really aren't enough topics on that matter to make it usefull :/.
Often when posts are just deleted the person posts another topic asking where it went. Though if after you deleted it if the mod could send a pm it would probably work.
I'd like to see it in the Welcome/Goodbye thread. Alot of people over look ratings and games.
Yeah, but I'm sure the mods don't want to put up with a hundred people a day saying: "OMG I r sorry give me pm/post/thread back!11!1!"
A red rule topic would get attention.
No, no, no, no. You'd get a million thread of: "OMG my boyfriend dumped me you guy's have to help me get him back!!!1111"
More merges = good.
Debates get flamed, as well as politics, but I like the idea of more staff topics.
Not really. I've had a bunny thread go 49 pages, and seen intelegent staff topics go 1.
Really you want someone who has no idea what thier doing and 1 post telling you off, and espisally incorrectly?
Intro's don't need a sub-forum.
This has been adressed many times. It's not right for any forum to get free advertising. |
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| Drangonsile | Feb 4 2006, 10:47 PM Post #30 |
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Second Grade
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That sort of stuff would be considered spam and people probably wouldn't reply to that. The mods/admins could always make a rule that you can't get relationship help. |
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| Das | Feb 4 2006, 10:50 PM Post #31 |
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Second Grade
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1. Rules don't help as already seen. 2. It's still gonna' happen. 3. No one really wants to give advice about others forums. |
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| Drangonsile | Feb 4 2006, 11:20 PM Post #32 |
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Second Grade
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I meant advice for real life, as in away from the computer. |
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| Das | Feb 4 2006, 11:21 PM Post #33 |
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Second Grade
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The only things I can think people would ask advice for would be: 1. Should I buy this 2. Should I go to the movies with Timmy or Jimmy 3. Boy/Girl friend troubles I suppose the first one is ok :/. |
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| Jappyx | Feb 4 2006, 11:55 PM Post #34 |
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Second Grade
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I also think that people should be eMailed when they receive a suspension. Advice sub-forum. I can see good and bad coming out of that, all of the bad and good has been explained above, so there is no need for me to go into it. I like the way the Intro's and departures is set out. It is also quick and easy to see new members, and to see your friends that are leaving. It's just easy, quick and simple. Like I said before, I think newbie's feel intimidated with they join. They feel that members will bash them and they will be stuck and lost - and people will just laugh and be mean. I have an idea - Do you think that the rules should be re-written to be more possitive, rather than negitive. Example: "No offensive or harmful posts/PMs." to "Please respect others and remember to not post offensive, and halmful posts or PM's" It's not much, but it would make new members feel more comfortable. ![]() |
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| Yodaminch | Feb 5 2006, 12:05 AM Post #35 |
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Advice would not be something to encourage. We have users as young as 13 and many more under that pretending to be 13. If we open up to advice we have things like suicide to worry about. and getting those occasionally is bad enough, but I will not throw open the floodgates on that one. I am with Locke when he says serious discussion needs to happen. I attempted to bring that back with debates. but we basically can't discuss gay marriage, politics and religion without trouble. and that eliminates all good debating right there, even with heavy moderation on our part. I would love more serious topics in community. I would really love more serious and tournament like games in the ratings and games forum. But we as staff just can't do it all the time. Believe me we've tried. Dan hopes to run a battle of the boards after 2.0 is done and every board upgraded, and I have ideas for other games. but they get buried under post this, or above you this. How do we stop it without becoming harsh? |
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| Jappyx | Feb 5 2006, 12:28 AM Post #36 |
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Second Grade
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Maybe a new usergroup that is manages games and has moderator abilities at the community chat forum? (or is there a similar one that I have seen that JamesWC was in?) Or even just more moderators? |
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| Yodaminch | Feb 5 2006, 12:31 AM Post #37 |
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how does that really solve the problem? that's like adding a group for codes, graphics and support. it still won't change anything. if all the promotions won't do it, then the exhisting staff need to work at it. |
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| Jappyx | Feb 5 2006, 12:36 AM Post #38 |
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Second Grade
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Good point. I just thought that maybe if you had game manages who just looked after the games then the moderators could focus on the other things on the forums, and they know that the gmaes will be looked after. ![]() |
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| Homestar | Feb 5 2006, 04:11 AM Post #39 |
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First Grade
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Ok id ont know if IF would want this but i was one this forum one time and it had a welcome commity and besically they just welcomed new members and gave them advice on how to "be a good member" and anserd any questions they had. They werent staff and had no access to acp but they where there to take alot of un wanted pms from the staff memebers. its helps the staff and helps the "noobs" understand alot more things |
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| Yodaminch | Feb 5 2006, 04:14 AM Post #40 |
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Administrator
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if there were one subforum i'd consider, it'd be a welcome forum. i've seen those too and actually have one on my board. very useful. |
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Nice move.
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If you're rude you should get one warn then insant post disable.
2:14 PM Jul 11