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Religon and its purpose; Basically a break down of seperation of.
Topic Started: Jul 19 2009, 07:56 AM (113 Views)
Karacknious	Jul 19 2009, 07:56 AM Post #1
Posts: 2 Group: Citizen Member #720 Joined: July 19, 2009	Basically, I wanted to break something down. Seperation of church and state... good or bad? In the eyes of the poeple: I think religon is mostly important to the citizens of thy nation and thus, failure to compy with religous holidays and festivities would not only be a major population decreaser but a damper on the governmental system as well seeing as a majority od America is a god fearing nation. The Government: I said previously, America is a god fearing country. So what does this mean for the economy, the governemtn and overall the nation. Im not saying going back to the reinassance era, where the church IS the nation, but bring it back to its former glory and holiness The economy: What this would mean for the economy and the nation itself would be... But if we were to do business with lets say china, cuba, Russia... A communist nation, because its in the best interests of the nation and its citizens, then we get publicized as a "terrorist" or a "gut-less communist" naton... how would you handle something like that? Diplomacy can only go so far...



Stiles	Jul 21 2009, 04:31 PM Post #2
CEO of the McVegas Corporation Posts: 813 Group: Citizen Member #393 Joined: June 10, 2008	Basically you're saying America still believes in God, or at the least, a Creator?



Future Filmmaker	Jul 21 2009, 05:37 PM Post #3
Telvanni Senator Posts: 1,814 Group: Senator Member #238 Joined: April 26, 2008	No way, Jose. America was in no way founded on Christianity, nor was Christianity ever at any point considered the official state religion. The very founding of this country was to practice religious freedom. The principles of our laws are based on the Judeo-Christian model, yes, just all Western nations are. But that in no way makes this a nation of Christianity. George Washington himself asserted the very thing that America is by no means a nation governed by the Christian faith. I quote the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." The phrases "In God We Trust" was not printed on paper money until the mid-point of the American Civil War. Also, "under God" was not inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance until the Cold War in 1952. The United States is not post-Christian because it never was a Christian nation. The Constitution itself rejected the notions of Theocratic republicanism. It is a nation that has a majority of the population as being Christians. That's basically it. I'm not an athiest that makes a religion of bashing religion, but I quote Thomas Jefferson on this matter: Quote: Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State. http://nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm



SalmonIsland	Aug 15 2009, 01:50 PM Post #4
Posts: 7 Group: Citizen Member #739 Joined: August 14, 2009	I think the separation between morality and the state is artificial and can be dangerous. Note that I refer to morality not the church or religion. Secularists will still uphold certain moral values, just like people of faith. For example, it is broadly accepted that murder and torture is wrong and these are moral values. After all, if they weren't, one could find justifications for them. Furthermore, even if a government professes to be secular, individual politicians will most likely vote in accordance with their faith. By trying to separate morality and the state, one is preventing freedom of worship. Instead of separating morality and the state, governments should govern for all their citizens. That means, when they determine policies, they should take into account that there will be moral views and proceed accordingly. As far as the Fidelia government is concerned, it should leave individual nation states to decide how to proceed in this regard.



Future Filmmaker	Aug 16 2009, 08:33 AM Post #5
Telvanni Senator Posts: 1,814 Group: Senator Member #238 Joined: April 26, 2008	SalmonIsland Aug 15 2009, 01:50 PM I think the separation between morality and the state is artificial and can be dangerous. Note that I refer to morality not the church or religion. Secularists will still uphold certain moral values, just like people of faith. For example, it is broadly accepted that murder and torture is wrong and these are moral values. After all, if they weren't, one could find justifications for them. Furthermore, even if a government professes to be secular, individual politicians will most likely vote in accordance with their faith. By trying to separate morality and the state, one is preventing freedom of worship. Instead of separating morality and the state, governments should govern for all their citizens. That means, when they determine policies, they should take into account that there will be moral views and proceed accordingly. As far as the Fidelia government is concerned, it should leave individual nation states to decide how to proceed in this regard. Fidelia will never discriminate against how any nation governs itself, even if it were a psychotic dictatorship, you can be a moralistic democracy, or you can be a theocratic state. You may govern as you so wish. This is outlined in the Constitution of Fidelia under the Article "Declaration of Rights". None of these rights shall ever be impeded upon or else it would provide a casus belli to oust the governement. As far as the argument that morality and secularism cannot co-exist is untrue. Many political moralists were have also been strongly secular. Although, morals and politics can almost never coincide. Politics is power. Power means corruption, decadence, and fraud. Morals have never governed nations in history, only the limitations of laws and the opposition to said government's power. Even in the most theocratic of countries in the world, politics corrupts. The best defense against corruption is not laws attacking opinion or conscience, but actions. In example, one cannot take a man to trial for being an amoral man, or for speaking out against accepted moral norms. Secularism does not impede on a man's ability to worship or a man's ability to vote according to moral values. However, moralism does impede upon a man's ability to act according to his own conscience as a posed to what the government deems as moral. This is the dangerous slippery slope of moralism and/or religion in politics. It has a strong tendency to expand government power over society and the population in general. If America, in example, were to become a Christian nation, then we would begin passing laws based upon religious doctrine and strongly favor group of people at the exclusion of non-Christians. Since America was a nation founded upon religious freedom, especially freedom from the Anglican state religion in England administered by the King, it could not and will not become a Christian nation. It violates the very core principles and tenets of democratic-republican government. I believe the world is far beyond church monopolies of the state. There is no reason why a person cannot be moral or very religious in a secular society. I happen to believe that there is a time and place for everything. Prayer and sunday school should remain chiefly church activities, whereas public education should chiefly focus on empirical study.



Shimkovic	Aug 17 2009, 11:48 AM Post #6
King of the Empire, Prince of the HSR of Shimkovic Posts: 1,366 Group: President Member #75 Joined: April 4, 2008	You'll find Future Filmmaker is a very jaded person when it comes to politics. I agree that morality and politics is a necessary union for a successful government. And when the morals fall beyond the people's desire, you will find sweeping changes in government. It is a question of where those morals lie, however.
	Chief Justice, Retired Speaker of the General Assembly "Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government." ~ Thomas Jefferson


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